Player Features and Ideas Discussion

God forbid alliances who own solar systems in nullsec be required to have fleets to ensure the safety and continued ownership of those systems

If you are having problems stopping non cloaking vessels, I suggest you worry about those.

We have roams right now, and I must assume you are relying entirely on avoidance if this confounds you.

It doesn't confound me at all. You deal with people as and when you need to. It's the assumption that you can somehow put in preventative measure to stop people getting in that I disagree with. It's simply not possible for any alliance to do. If you disagree, prove it. Take over some space and make sure nobody gets past your entry gates, ever.

See above. Putting out a fleets is not a problem. Sealing up whole regions of space preventing any non blue entering is simply not possible. If you disagree, prove it. It's a problem no alliance has ever been able to overcome entirely, and rightly so. Why should alliances have the power to totally seal off the space?

The suggestion here is that alliances should somehow be doing that, thus there are no issues, since there's only blues in the space. It's a ridiculous notion.

That is an absolute argument, and a straw man as a result.

You don't NEED to stop every ship. Quit implying this is an all or nothing issue like that, EVE is not about absolutes.

You need a gate camp to meet two needs:
1 They need to block obvious combat threats, which can be stopped by bubbles and tactics.
2 If an overwhelming fleet is inbound, they then get to alert the alliance that they are about to be overwhelmed.

The point is, and this should be obvious, that they will be stopping the highly effective combat vessels, leaving only the faster and normally weaker to slip through.

Fitting to resist light weight speeder ships, which cannot bring in a hot drop until 60 seconds pass on a cyno, is a very manageable challenge.


This point countered by the one above.

Even then, how is it possible to cover every possible entry into your space 24/7? The only way would be to make it people jobs to stand guard, which is ridiculous. Any suggestion that turns any part of EVE into a career is a bad idea. Again, I don;t think you understand the concepts around what you are talking. You are stating "this is theoretically what alliances should do". Well sure, in theory, it's sound. In practice, it's boring. Boring games die.

You are correct, I am slightly out of context.
With this however, this is a fix for a problem introduced by a change in mechanics. When you can already see a problem requiring a fix, then the original change is generally at fault.
Personally I don;t see a problem with it as it is. Cloakers are getting more powerful, making other combat ships redundant, so we really need to see what the SOE ships do to the balance before looking at any other changes. I'd be hesitant to see a delay added to local, only to see the SOE ships added at a level of power that makes that delay long enough to warp and gank. Overall, if you are paying 100% attention, and a entrant to the system has to warp to you, you should usually get away, since you both have the same task to perform (warp to destination), so its obvious that both tasks would take around the same amount of time.

With the interceptor warp changes, things are being change in my opinion for the better. An uncloaked ship will now have a considerably better change at doing it's job, intercepting. Since the current interceptors usually land on grid moment before the target leaves, this change should make that better. Delaying local will make that change moot, as any covops ship would gain a much larger advantage.

Overall my stance will always be this:
I'm all for making changes that make the game tougher in null. I'm however against changes that tip the covops ship/combat ship balance any further in favor of covops, because I don't support the idea of regular combat vessels being relegated to blobs only. Small gangs should have a need for role specific ships like interceptors so they have a choice in how to engage rather than the current "jump in a covops and away we go".
Local is too big a change to tackle, I don;t think it will ever be changed until the reliance on it is severed. For this to happen several other changes will have to happen first such as tackling AFK cloaks, a new form of intel (effort based but with some superior qualities to local, especially for high sec war decs). Once local is less relied on, then it can be looked at. Until then, I think any changes will simply push more people towards covops, which already is a heavy favourite.

EDIT: This turned into a bit of a rambling wall. My apologies.

You mean the way cloakers are forced to sit and wait as a result of your - in your own words - "99% chance" of escaping

I agree, we should do something that allows more active hunting of targets, and reduces that 99% safety

Ok, this is a perspective issue maybe.

I do not see this being a career move, any more than already exists.

If you have players manning gate camps, that is more than enough.
You should never assume that the effort they make at a gate camp, is something that removes any need for effort for the other players behind the lines.

That gate camp is stopping the big fish. It means you won't get hammered by an overwhelming blob or roam plowing through your space, without at LEAST a heads up from these guys over your intel channel.

I sincerely believe you need this level of active defense.
I sincerely believe you need the cooperation required to support an intel channel, and be listening to it. This is a minimum effort, and assumes you don't necessarily bother with voice coms or other out of game coms.
I sincerely believe effort should be required and opposed, not a default timed event where getting safe exempts opposing effort from being significant short of reinforcing structures.

I feel that null sec should require this. The rewards in null should only be really better when active group efforts are backing it.
If null is not being defined by active group efforts, then it is no better than high sec.

No, if I wish to catch locals, I am forced do that, because the current local mechanics makes it impossible for me to catch them as they can enter warp before I have finished loading the system. An interceptor makes no difference, as you can still be in warp to a pos/station before I have finished entering system. It doesn't matter how fast my ship aligns or warps, you'll be out of there before I finish transitioning into system.

So my only recourse is to already be in system, and try and trick people into thinking its safe to come out and play

And if you're going to go the "choice" route, then I will just as easily fire it back at you. If you choose not to put in the effort defending systems, then you suffer the consequences of that

Hypocrisy isn't helpful bro

It is not your only recourse. It may be impossible for you given your current skill level and brainpower, but it is not impossible to everyone. Why are you banging your head against the wall of impossibilities? Find what is possible for you to do and then do that. If you are trying to catch locals, I can assure you that camping a system 24/7 does not make your goal in more possible. If anything, such thinking merely fools you into believing that you are depriving the locals of resources and desensitizing them to your presence. I assure you that your effect is merely diverting their ops to surrounding systems and leaving a few alts to watch you.

So,

1. You are NOT entitled to catching "locals"
2. You are NOT forced to do anything
3. Your goal is ONLY impossible for you
4. You are NOT tricking anyone
5. You really do need to consider another career

To open your mind a little, imagine how much easier it would be to catch a "local" if they just got stuck in a bubble the moment you entered system AND you knew exactly where to warp to. Think about it for a little bit before responding. Let it sink in before you form a reply.