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Empire, Pirates and Capsuler influence, long term development of System Security
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Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-09-29 18:21:09 UTC
Hi,

as CCP anounced they want to add more Systems to our little world, which probably have to be discovered by the players. And i want to write down my ideas how i would do it, mostly rp wise so and would also like you guys to place your Opinions with reasoning in here.

The 4 Empires have gained enough military power to expand their influence claim former NPC Null for their faction. These can also be down via CCP/player events. The former NPC Null will increase into Lowsec about a period of 6 months.

CONCORD has sanctionated those actions and increased their power by quite a margin and so all former lowsec systems will become highsec over a period of 6 months.

With kicking the pirate faction out of their homes they will look for a new Home. These Factions will settle in the former Sov-Nullsec. These will take about 6 months to 1 year dependent on how deep true sec they were.

Unknown Space, the new Systems which will have to be found and player built Gates for access will become the new Sov-Null.


And in the times of turmoil, maybe make it so that fw will create new empire borders too.

I know that what i have written here will upset the large scale power base of many players. I have also to say that i think this would make eve alot more interesting for everybody from null to highsec dwellers they have to adapt to new circumstences.
Takari
Promised Victorious Entropy
#2 - 2013-09-29 18:34:09 UTC
Other than driving the current inhabitants of low and nullsec insane (which, I admit, would certainly be "interesting") What is the benefit of this other than increasing the size of high-sec space? What is the long term benefit to the game?

Increasing the overall size of the universe is a fantastic idea, as long as there are enough players to make it meaningful, but the only real benefit of the plan you have laid out would be to expand high security space at the expense of those living in low and null security space.

"Roll the dice, don't think twice. This is the way of things. Welcome to EVE." ~ CCP Falcon

"Good luck, shoot straight and don't back down." - Serendipity Lost
Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2013-09-29 18:48:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Takari wrote:
Other than driving the current inhabitants of low and nullsec insane (which, I admit, would certainly be "interesting") What is the benefit of this other than increasing the size of high-sec space? What is the long term benefit to the game?

Increasing the overall size of the universe is a fantastic idea, as long as there are enough players to make it meaningful, but the only real benefit of the plan you have laid out would be to expand high security space at the expense of those living in low and null security space.



Like i said i looked at it a bit in the rp direction. The "long Term" would be getting a gold rush into new unexplored space when the old big alliances get "kicked out" of their space and to offset hopefully the current power structure. But you are right that it would mostly increase the playing field for all players if null fw lowsec or highsec dwellers. But if CCP deploys some nice player driven events in the time it takes to make those changes and let them really be free it could become a great selling point.

EDIT: Also i dont think a introduction of just new systems to settle would sell very well.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#4 - 2013-09-29 19:40:50 UTC
Where, exact;y, is the benefit for ANY null or lowsec players in all of this? Lose everything you've worked for, not to a failure to defend your home against other players, but to a game mechanic? A conquest that you cannot even attempt to fight, all so highsec can gain a whole load more completely empty systems?

Why?

Hell, lorewise aren't the big guns of nullsec already stronger than the empires? Even in the trailers and things, they're saying the capsuleers are taking over, and I seem to remember fleets described in the books as unstoppable being roughly equivalent to a friday night slosh op for anyone in null.

So, why shouldn't it be the other way around? Low into null, high into low, the empires collapsing? (It shouldn't be this either, it's an awful idea.)
Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2013-09-29 19:56:45 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Where, exact;y, is the benefit for ANY null or lowsec players in all of this? Lose everything you've worked for, not to a failure to defend your home against other players, but to a game mechanic? A conquest that you cannot even attempt to fight, all so highsec can gain a whole load more completely empty systems?

Why?

Hell, lorewise aren't the big guns of nullsec already stronger than the empires? Even in the trailers and things, they're saying the capsuleers are taking over, and I seem to remember fleets described in the books as unstoppable being roughly equivalent to a friday night slosh op for anyone in null.

So, why shouldn't it be the other way around? Low into null, high into low, the empires collapsing? (It shouldn't be this either, it's an awful idea.)


Thats one of the things i expected to come up more sooner than later. but thats what i meant with player driven events. But come on when there are more and more settled systems the powers in existence will try to wrestle as much space as they can possible stomache to defend so why shouldnt it be included in the long term plan. Maybe in increasing their size they concord and empire is forced to cut their losses on some highsec systems and they turn into lowsec or Civil War Breaks out. But the Empire inclusive CONCORD can not stagnate they will try to increase their power, especially when the Capsulers try to wrestle it out of them.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#6 - 2013-09-29 20:17:34 UTC
Jeanne-Luise Argenau wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Where, exact;y, is the benefit for ANY null or lowsec players in all of this? Lose everything you've worked for, not to a failure to defend your home against other players, but to a game mechanic? A conquest that you cannot even attempt to fight, all so highsec can gain a whole load more completely empty systems?

Why?

Hell, lorewise aren't the big guns of nullsec already stronger than the empires? Even in the trailers and things, they're saying the capsuleers are taking over, and I seem to remember fleets described in the books as unstoppable being roughly equivalent to a friday night slosh op for anyone in null.

So, why shouldn't it be the other way around? Low into null, high into low, the empires collapsing? (It shouldn't be this either, it's an awful idea.)


Thats one of the things i expected to come up more sooner than later. but thats what i meant with player driven events. But come on when there are more and more settled systems the powers in existence will try to wrestle as much space as they can possible stomache to defend so why shouldnt it be included in the long term plan. Maybe in increasing their size they concord and empire is forced to cut their losses on some highsec systems and they turn into lowsec or Civil War Breaks out. But the Empire inclusive CONCORD can not stagnate they will try to increase their power, especially when the Capsulers try to wrestle it out of them.



So what's in it for the residents of low or nullsec, or would you expect them to just eat the loss of everything they've ever fought over with no possibility of defending themselves?

Would you expect the serpantis or the guristas to put out four, five hundred caps, plus a couple of hundred supers, or a few thousand subcaps? Would you even expect the empires to do it, given what the lore tells us about the size of the fleets? And that'd just be to break one coalition of nullsec residents. Start adding in the other half of null, plus all of low, and you pretty quickly run into problems without retconning most of the lore.

and CONCORD isn't going to get involved in empire expansions. They're a neutral party. That's kind of the point.
Takari
Promised Victorious Entropy
#7 - 2013-09-29 20:22:41 UTC
Still we have the imbalance of High-Sec gaining quite a bit while losing nothing and Low and Null Sec losing everything for heretofore unknown gains.

I'm all for a shifting security landscape, but it can't be set up in such a way that one group benefits at the expense of others without any control.

Certainly if the residents of high-sec were to go down to low/npc null and start claiming space, fighting inch by inch for what they want but to have CCP make that call as just "Oh the empires took it" is not going to work and you'd have to give the more unruly spaces the ability to do the same, letting Null and Low alliances fight in to claim high-sec spaces.

"Roll the dice, don't think twice. This is the way of things. Welcome to EVE." ~ CCP Falcon

"Good luck, shoot straight and don't back down." - Serendipity Lost
Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2013-09-29 21:26:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Takari wrote:
Still we have the imbalance of High-Sec gaining quite a bit while losing nothing and Low and Null Sec losing everything for heretofore unknown gains.

I'm all for a shifting security landscape, but it can't be set up in such a way that one group benefits at the expense of others without any control.

Certainly if the residents of high-sec were to go down to low/npc null and start claiming space, fighting inch by inch for what they want but to have CCP make that call as just "Oh the empires took it" is not going to work and you'd have to give the more unruly spaces the ability to do the same, letting Null and Low alliances fight in to claim high-sec spaces.



k i see where u come from but why not make player driven eventls like. Amarr is attacking now the Constellation XYZ with 15 titans 30 supercaps 60 dreads and carrier mixed and 300 subcapitals or more controlled by ccp or a very complex ai (better than incursion ai or sleeper ai) and tell the players if u dont want to lose that constellation u have to defend it. And how u do defend your systems in that time will decide the ss gain or the empire influence gain. Ofcourse the same goes for pirates or a revolt (civil war) that some high sec systems will lose their standing. Only thing there has to be is atleast one highsec route which connects the tradehubs ren, dodi, hek, amarr and jita and all starter systems to these tradehubs else im for lets see how chaos rules.