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Faction Warfare: Moving Forward.....

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Author
Gallactica
Shadows Of The Federation
#561 - 2011-11-15 16:06:27 UTC
So bascially as it stands theres naffall changes being implemented / proposed changes planned for FW?

Nice waste of a thread..............again...........if this is the case.

Can one of the GM's confirm things are being looked at? or has it been shelved?

Would be nice to know where things stand either way.
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
Infinite Pew
#562 - 2011-11-15 16:21:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Hans Jagerblitzen
Gallactica wrote:
So bascially as it stands theres naffall changes being implemented / proposed changes planned for FW?

Nice waste of a thread..............again...........if this is the case.

Can one of the GM's confirm things are being looked at? or has it been shelved?

Would be nice to know where things stand either way.


Actually, the developers have confirmed that they are working on a Faction Warfare improvement right now. Also, the CSM have an upcoming summit in December, and have said they will revisit FW with CCP during those talks. I've been speaking with the CSM to ensure they have everything they need from us to pass along to CCP.

The GM's are the wrong people to ask about this sort of thing, that's a whole different department dedicated to resolving in-game issues and account issues, they strictly deal with whats already live and in progress on Tranquility.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris
#563 - 2011-11-15 16:24:10 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Gallactica wrote:
So bascially as it stands theres naffall changes being implemented / proposed changes planned for FW?

Nice waste of a thread..............again...........if this is the case.

Can one of the GM's confirm things are being looked at? or has it been shelved?

Would be nice to know where things stand either way.


Actually, the developers have confirmed that they are working on a Faction Warfare improvement right now. Also, the CSM have an upcoming summit in December, and have said they will revisit FW with CCP during those talks. I've been speaking with the CSM to ensure they have everything they need from us to pass along to CCP.

The GM's are the wrong people to ask about this sort of thing, that's a whole different department dedicated to resolving in-game issues and account issues, they strictly deal with whats already live and in progress on Tranquility.


They are making sites respawn differently, not only after DT, which is great, but SO THE **** WHAT

Just NOW they are getting to it?
Always ... Never ... Forget to check your references.   Peace out Zulu! Hope you land well!
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#564 - 2011-11-15 16:24:28 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
I could care less whether FW is fixed to my liking at this point, I just want to see progress as soon as possible and am trying to work with the CSM to give them what they've asked for going into the summit.


I don't care if they fix it in any particular way. But I do hope the improved fw offers small scale pvp that you can not get anywhere else in eve. I have to say if they make plexing into even more of a pve activity than it already is I will be very disappointed. Even if the pve is so rewarding that every carebear that ever did an incursion or level 4 mission all of a sudden decides to start plexing instead, it will still be a major let down.

Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:

The five points each under "little fixes" and "big ideas" are among the most repeated suggestions for improvement that have been shared, though obviously there will still be some individuals that don't feel those are issues, even amongst the most vocal on the forums. Everyone's feedback here is valuable though, so definitely keep sharing your thoughts. It's impossible to obtain a 100% consensus on any given talking point, but that doesn't mean there aren't some common themes amongst the fix suggestions. NPC issues in plexes / missions are one of the oldest items on the to-do list, and even had a CSM resolution backing it historically, so I've included it on the list for now.

I refuse to be swayed by the idea that we are an obscure minority, and that Incarna somehow trumps FW in terms of fan popularity. I really think that most players have simply given up speaking up based on CCP's history of ignoring the issue, and that there is a huge base of players like Kinis Deren here that would welcome a healthy, functioning, FW system in lowsec. The past CSM resolutions were all passed because of huge player support for FW fixes, back when you could vote in support of proposals. Eventually the situation got so bad that the proposals were no longer about what to fix, but about the lack of attention and more importantly total lack of communication with players about FW.

I think now, its not a minority of players who want FW fixed, its a minority of players who are willing to fight for such fixes. And when we give up, that is the moment it really will become an abandoned feature.


Well I think allot of players who wanted solo and small gang pvp simply unsubbed over time. CCP never truly delivered a comprehensive mechanic for it. FW was an attempt so those players would naturally gravitate there. But by and large eve has been a game where the mechanics promote large fleet fights. Other than fw plexxing CCP has never really done anything comprehensive to promote solo or small scale pvp, and since it has remained broken that segment of gamers don't stay long.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
Infinite Pew
#565 - 2011-11-15 16:27:15 UTC
Apollo Gabriel wrote:

They are making sites respawn differently, not only after DT, which is great, but SO THE **** WHAT

Just NOW they are getting to it?


Unfortunately, that's just player speculation. Team Pink Zombie Kittens didn't say what the fix was, only that they are programming it right now.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Maz3r Rakum
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#566 - 2011-11-15 16:53:33 UTC
Lets fix it.
Lord Meriak
State Naval Academy
#567 - 2011-11-15 18:53:55 UTC
Ccp no mention if fw in notes ?

is this another round table momnet again. Looking that way
Hentes Zsemle
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#568 - 2011-11-15 19:38:50 UTC
They just don't mention it on the feature page, without any further information.

CCP never changes.
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
Infinite Pew
#569 - 2011-11-15 20:32:25 UTC
Hentes Zsemle wrote:
They just don't mention it on the feature page, without any further information.

CCP never changes.


They also don't mention nebulas or gate travel changes, or changes to fitting screen, etc, etc, etc.

Dont assume that just because FW isn't on the features page means they've skipped out on it again. There's a ton of stuff in the SiSi build not included in the Crucible page.

I'd be pessimistic too if the developers didn't already tell us they are actively programming a Faction Warfare iteration as we speak.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#570 - 2011-11-15 21:59:51 UTC
Nimrod Nemesis wrote:
Bomberlocks wrote:
A nice change to the whole game would be to have boosters, neutral or not, only boosting when they are on the same grid as the people they're boosting.


This.


BTW: There is a proposal for this in assembly hall here:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=10444&find=unread

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Har Harrison
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#571 - 2011-11-16 02:20:43 UTC
Lord Meriak wrote:
Ccp no mention if fw in notes ?

is this another round table momnet again. Looking that way

There was a comment in the SISI thread (about the current release) that stated there was content in the new SISI build that hadn't been mentioned in the dev blogs yet...

That being said, I am inclined to agree that it appears that there is no FW content in this patch (besides the customs office being seeded in the LP store at 1/2 the price it is in the concord store...

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#572 - 2011-11-16 19:58:55 UTC
This is not a bump.

Am I the only one who thinks catalysts and thrashers will be too powerful for minor plexes after they remove the rate of fire penalty and make the other changes to them (lower sig, increase armor and shields hp more capacitor etc.)?

I'm thinking they will be able to put out somewhere around 350-400 dps with faction ammo (the catalyst may even be able to get away with void ammo given the change to blasters and its tracking bonus) and have a tank of around 8k ehp. Why would anyone use any other ships for minors?

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
Infinite Pew
#573 - 2011-11-16 20:20:25 UTC
Cearain wrote:
This is not a bump.

Am I the only one who thinks catalysts and thrashers will be too powerful for minor plexes after they remove the rate of fire penalty and make the other changes to them (lower sig, increase armor and shields hp more capacitor etc.)?

I'm thinking they will be able to put out somewhere around 350-400 dps with faction ammo (the catalyst may even be able to get away with void ammo given the change to blasters and its tracking bonus) and have a tank of around 8k ehp. Why would anyone use any other ships for minors?


No, you're not the only one. On the other hand, the destroyer boosts would mitigate the Dramiel effect, making their use not so overpowered. I think it remains to be seen, personally I'd rather them fix the plex spawn timers and standings stuff (regarding repping) first, since those are a known issue. Once the known issues are fixed, than I'd say move on to the theoretical incoming imbalances.

This is of course, assuming we only get one fix worked on at a time.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Karl Planck
Perkone
Caldari State
#574 - 2011-11-16 20:24:07 UTC
Cearain wrote:
This is not a bump.

Am I the only one who thinks catalysts and thrashers will be too powerful for minor plexes after they remove the rate of fire penalty and make the other changes to them (lower sig, increase armor and shields hp more capacitor etc.)?

I'm thinking they will be able to put out somewhere around 350-400 dps with faction ammo (the catalyst may even be able to get away with void ammo given the change to blasters and its tracking bonus) and have a tank of around 8k ehp. Why would anyone use any other ships for minors?


From earlier estimates made a week ago or so the estimated dps was around 700 for a full gang cat and around 600 for a coercer. It goes down from there, but suffice it to say, they are going to ****.

Although they will be a great deal stronger, look forward to the new fad in fw frig fits, TD's on EVERYTHING.

I has all the eve inactivity

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#575 - 2011-11-16 20:57:10 UTC
Karl Planck wrote:
Cearain wrote:
This is not a bump.

Am I the only one who thinks catalysts and thrashers will be too powerful for minor plexes after they remove the rate of fire penalty and make the other changes to them (lower sig, increase armor and shields hp more capacitor etc.)?

I'm thinking they will be able to put out somewhere around 350-400 dps with faction ammo (the catalyst may even be able to get away with void ammo given the change to blasters and its tracking bonus) and have a tank of around 8k ehp. Why would anyone use any other ships for minors?


From earlier estimates made a week ago or so the estimated dps was around 700 for a full gang cat and around 600 for a coercer. It goes down from there, but suffice it to say, they are going to ****.

Although they will be a great deal stronger, look forward to the new fad in fw frig fits, TD's on EVERYTHING.


Did the coercer get another mid slot?

I must not have done the math right. If what you say is true the new fad in fw frigs will be to leave them in the station - at least if you want to plex.

Hans: This won't mitigate the dramiel effect it will replace it with something worse. Drams could be beat with hookbills, daredevils and even sometimes slicers, thrashers, and comets or even 2 t1 frigs if they both had webs. There was a decent variety of ships and options. Outside fo plexes assault ships could easilly fight off drams and sometimes steal the occasional kill.


Destroyers are some of the most boring ships in eve. Everyone in a minor plex will be flying not only the same ships but the same 3 or 4 fits.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
#576 - 2011-11-16 21:08:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Hirana Yoshida
Coercer doesn't need no stinking second mid, it kills so fast that it is not needed .. kind of like the arty/sebo trash.

Destroyers will be light cruisers:
Range and damage of cruisers with speed, tank and agility of heavy frigates (read: AFs) with the ludicrous tracking thrown in for good measure.

Just goes to show that FW is probably one of the most vulnerable parts of Eve as the 'balance' is upset by changes to just about any other part.

On a side note: Unless something is changed in regards to missions, the alt swams are going to get a big bump with the idiot plans of adding cheap PI Tax Office BPCs to the FW stores.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#577 - 2011-11-16 22:24:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
I don't have a problem with the boost as a whole. (at least not much of one) Destroyers are to frigaates what bcs are to cruisers. They just don't belong in minors anymore than bcs belong in medium plexes.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Har Harrison
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#578 - 2011-11-17 02:17:55 UTC
In this matter, I do tend to concur with Cearain - desties are likely to be OP for minor plexes...

Deerin
East Trading Co Ltd
#579 - 2011-11-17 21:52:18 UTC
I wanted to drop by and tank Hans for summing up important points that need fixing. All these points are critical for future of FW. Especially the DT problem. CCP should base their changes on the original post.

I want to provide some ideas here.

Here is my idea about Conquering systems.

Right now conquering the system does give no rewards at all, and is being ignored by many. CCP has actually introduced a new contesting system to EVE: Incursions!!!

Make FW contesting like incursions. Make systems gather contest points normally. At half contest value the incursion script kicks in and rope pulling game begins. Defending side will try to decontest system while offending side willl push for a victory. Players who participate in this tug of war get LP counters on their journals. When offending side wins and conquers the system the offense side players gain that LP. When defending side wins and decontests system defensive side players gain that LP.

Also make sure that the systems initially have minors only...as the contest amount rises minor plex amounts decline and we get more meds....as the contest amount approaches max major plexes will begin to spawn and we'll get less and less medium plexes and no minor plexes at all. (Make sure you somehow nerf my rifter being able to speedtank amarr majors without any problems)

The systems that have incursion script active should be shown in the journal (like incursions) and playes should be able to see the progress. So that when a fw player logs in he should be able to know where to go....current FW button in stations doesn't provide necessary intel conveniently.

One more thing that bothers me is that I can go deep in enemy territory and do plexes there. Borders should have a meaning. Limit defensive plex spawn to 3 jumps from nearest enemy occupied system. So that fighting will occur at border systems and you need to push borders to advance in enemy territory.

Finally there is the problem of Amarr (Pator, New Caldari, Luminaire). I want to invade that place. Give us some key systems. When they are taken down let us be able to march to enemy Capital and conquer it.

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#580 - 2011-11-17 22:20:44 UTC
Deerin wrote:

One more thing that bothers me is that I can go deep in enemy territory and do plexes there. Borders should have a meaning. Limit defensive plex spawn to 3 jumps from nearest enemy occupied system. So that fighting will occur at border systems and you need to push borders to advance in enemy territory.



Good post and nice ideas. Of course, I will only quote the one thing I disagree with and that is the above.

The best way to reduce blobs is to spread out the territory that needs to be fought over. To the extent you limit the fighting to "border zones" you will have more blobbing to victory.

You will also have situations where the side with fewer active pilots can't do anything. This is too much like null sec to really add a new form of gameplay to new eden. I hope they keep all the systems at least somewhat in play so that smaller groups can coodinate and complete attacks in distant systems unless the other side splits up its blob.

I won't get into the back and forth as to whether this would be "realistic" or not, other than to say we have never fought wars with warp gates in space so we really don't know how it would work. But there are other reasons that could justify these systems which seem deep in one sides space to become contested.




Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815