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Regional unfairness in pricing
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stoicfaux
#21 - 2013-09-27 00:10:38 UTC
Two words: Socialism!

Also, bitcoins!

But yes, it would be interesting to understand the markup.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Sharanelle
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#22 - 2013-09-27 00:15:37 UTC
This is ridiculous! Prices in the US are outrageous, the VAT tax in the EU is gouging those players in VAT countries!

It's like someone set the corp tax rate to 50%, while other corps get the privilege of a 10-20% tax rate!

Eliminate taxes altogether!

...
blue dehazon
Stonegard Arrows
#23 - 2013-09-27 00:51:55 UTC
well if this is true thats bad,but will nott help us,if ennything was to hapen the price in usa will go up and we still pay the same.
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog
B.L.U.E L.A.S.E.R.
#24 - 2013-09-27 01:45:37 UTC
Sharanelle wrote:
This is ridiculous! Prices in the US are outrageous, the VAT tax in the EU is gouging those players in VAT countries!

It's like someone set the corp tax rate to 50%, while other corps get the privilege of a 10-20% tax rate!

Eliminate taxes altogether!


Europe is an NPC corp, I guess?

I am not an alt of Chribba.
Klyith
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2013-09-27 01:58:28 UTC
FYI, Amazon may be giving CCP some additional consideration to have an Amazon-only sale. They've been doing stuff like that to build out their digital gaming store and compete with existing stores. So it may be less "CCP favoring the US" and more "Amazon only caring about the US".



Lucretia DeWinter wrote:
Nope. You have to link your EVE account to your Amazon account and your payment card and then it tells you you can't. order this outside the US.

You know 5 seconds of google would tell you what to do. Create a new amazon account with a US address, such as the White House. Link accounts & pay with foreign card. Don't tell AmazonTony.
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
Nornir Empire
#26 - 2013-09-27 02:20:52 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Isn't it possible to buy from Amazon US?

Especially as you don't need to care about shipping


I've bought from Amazon US using my UK account for physical items that were shipped to me. Amazon Japan also ships to the UK, depending on the store/item or something.

Free 3rd party services

Buddy link w/ bonus 250k SP, you keep the whole PLEX upon subscribing
Jose Ronald Palasialdana
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2013-09-27 03:00:57 UTC
Lucretia DeWinter wrote:
US residents have an extremely good offer from a partner reseller that EU and UK and AUS and everyone else can't redeem.

The level of disparity is significant enough that I believe it requires discussion and justification.


If you buy PLEX from CCP and billed in the UK, it would cost you $145. (£90) So 6 PELX for $75 is actually stiffing UK players (and other Euros) for very nearly double the price.

But, but, but taxes... right?

Umm.. no. UK VAT at 20% (which is questionable as lots of "electronic services" are not charged VAT - would need a specialist who knows)
$75 amazon 6 PLEX (£46)
+ VAT (£9.20)
= £55.20 or $88.42

So where's the other $56 dollars and change go? Fifty six dollars? That's a lot.

People mostly don't mind when regional variations are small and justifiable (like an extra few bucks in taxes) but when one region is being screwed over with no logical or valid reason, people get angry.

Amazon has international presence - if you're going to partner with them, ensure they provide the offers to your customer base - which is international. Why does amazon.co.uk not have 6 PLEX offers up for £49.99? Or amazon.de for 56 Euros?

CCP made great efforts with re-balancing account billing so that geographically diverse regions pay roughly equivalent in local currency for their subs. So there's no excuse for this.

The collectors edition suffers the same thing - being equivalent of $50 more if you live outside the US.


Not very fair is it?




Hey Mang,
I concur...


Jose Ronald
Lykouleon
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#28 - 2013-09-27 03:18:08 UTC
Lucretia DeWinter wrote:
Not very fair is it?

Freedom isn't fair.

Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER so I can hit them with my sword
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#29 - 2013-09-27 03:31:55 UTC
Look deeply enough, and you will likely find the incredibly ****** up EU intra-national trade laws to be the culprit of this. I can only imagine how long it took CCP to even figure out a way to make PLEX legal in the first place.

The price you pay for outright socialism, I suppose. As opposed to the states, where we lie to ourselves about being socialists now.

Either way, I feel sorry for my EU brethren, but at the same time I intend to take full, $100 at least advantage of this. No hard feelings. Twisted

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Lucretia DeWinter
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2013-09-27 08:50:55 UTC
Klyith wrote:
FYI, Amazon may be giving CCP some additional consideration to have an Amazon-only sale. They've been doing stuff like that to build out their digital gaming store and compete with existing stores. So it may be less "CCP favoring the US" and more "Amazon only caring about the US".



Lucretia DeWinter wrote:
Nope. You have to link your EVE account to your Amazon account and your payment card and then it tells you you can't. order this outside the US.

You know 5 seconds of google would tell you what to do. Create a new amazon account with a US address, such as the White House. Link accounts & pay with foreign card. Don't tell AmazonTony.


I realise that Amazon is where the trouble lies, but CCP should be looking at providing their whole customer base with good deals. I also know there's all manner of over and under the table deals at work for exclusivity, reciprocal favour agreements and all that.

Still doesn't make it suck less. CCP made thier own mess by continuing to try and wrangle the bag of angry cats that is currency differences. Just use one currency and let us sort out the currency conversions. My bank does it for free, online and instantly, AND at the proper exchange rate so I pay equivalent prices. I don't need somebody helpfully translating $100 into £100.

But that's not going to happen when there's a 50% mark up to be made...


Registering a fake US account has potentially serious risks. Amazon will ban you for it, and because your EVE account is linked, you could end up banned from EVE too (as has happened to people when Amazon messed up their payments for EVE stuff)

And using the White House will get some NSA or TSA or official round my house to come and touch up my junk for being a tourist. ;)

The only way I can see of doing it is get a US buddy to redeem them into PLEX and trade them in game? Does this work? Which is still silly and shouldn't have to be done and carries the risk of being ripped off Because Of Eve.
Herr Esiq
Viziam
#31 - 2013-09-27 09:14:55 UTC
Klyith wrote:
FYI, Amazon may be giving CCP some additional consideration to have an Amazon-only sale. They've been doing stuff like that to build out their digital gaming store and compete with existing stores. So it may be less "CCP favoring the US" and more "Amazon only caring about the US".

If only there where PLEX vendors that cater internationally and willing to strike a deal with CCP.

I personally am not convinced every 3rd party retailer on their own list is strong-arming CCP into not having a PLEX sale:
https://secure.eveonline.com/etc.aspx
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2013-09-27 11:40:39 UTC
Lucretia DeWinter wrote:
...Why does amazon.... not have 6 PLEX offers up for ... 56 Euros?

The cost of doing business in the EU is higher than the US.


Othran
Route One
#33 - 2013-09-27 11:52:24 UTC
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:
Lucretia DeWinter wrote:
...Why does amazon.... not have 6 PLEX offers up for ... 56 Euros?

The cost of doing business in the EU is higher than the US.




No, its not. Not for Amazon anyway as they use Luxembourg as their tax haven. Every online sale in the EU gets fed through Luxembourg for VAT/etc and then Ireland for corporation tax. As a result they pay around 40% of the tax rate they are subjected to in the USA, should they attempt to "repatriate" that money. Same as Apple does and thousands more.

CCP are based in Iceland which isn't in the EU, nor is Iceland joining the EU (sensible people).

They pay corporation taxes in Iceland and (presumably) take advantage of the same loophole Amazon (and thousands of other companies do) by paying VAT in the lowest rate country in the EU (and that's lower than pretty much any US state sales tax).

CCP do it because they always have and indeed have "got away with it" for 10+ years. Its got bugger all to do with taxes or "the cost of doing business".
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2013-09-27 11:57:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Bi-Mi Lansatha
Othran wrote:


Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:


The cost of doing business in the EU is higher than the US.




No, its not. ....
Amazon.de does not have to transfer VAT to the Germany government?

Should I order through Amazon.DE they take VAT from me and send it to the German government; unless I submit AE From 215-6B.
Othran
Route One
#35 - 2013-09-27 12:20:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Othran
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:
Othran wrote:


Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:


The cost of doing business in the EU is higher than the US.




No, its not. ....
Amazon.de does not have to transfer VAT to the Germany government?

Should I order through Amazon.DE they take VAT from me and send it to the German government; unless I submit AE From 215-6B.


When you purchase from Amazon in the EU then the VAT is (eventually) paid in Luxembourg. That's where the Amazon "trading company" is "based" and the sales go through them where they pay the "super reduced rate" of 3% VAT on books (for example). If you put your "computer services" (ie MMO subs) through there then you pay 12% VAT.

Now the trading company transfers the profits to the Amazon "management company" in Ireland where they pay 6% tax (in theory at least). Apple do the same and haven't paid any tax in Ireland for more than 20 years.

Welcome to the EU carousel where no multinational company with a clue pays taxes where they should and VAT fraud is rife.

How do you think Luxembourg pays its bills anyway? Its only 5 years since the OECD were going to label Luxembourg as an illegal tax haven and blacklist them - the EU were going to have to suspend their membership, a "deal" was reached but they're still dodgy as ****.

Anyway the tl;dr is that differences between EU and US prices for Eve have bugger all to do with taxes.
Herr Esiq
Viziam
#36 - 2013-09-27 12:24:43 UTC
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:
Othran wrote:


Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:


The cost of doing business in the EU is higher than the US.




No, its not. ....
Amazon.de does not have to transfer VAT to the Germany government?

Should I order through Amazon.DE they take VAT from me and send it to the German government; unless I submit AE From 215-6B.

You keep bringing up amazon.de, but thats not the issue, there are many ways to avoid VAT, as given per example few posts up. In fact its the #1 sport in the EU. OP also included VAT in the calculations.

Always remember: avoiding tax is legal, evading tax is illegal.

The problem is why CCP had to go with a vendor that excludes other countries from the option to buy.
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2013-09-27 12:40:37 UTC
Othran wrote:

When you purchase from Amazon in the EU then the VAT is (eventually) paid in Luxembourg. That's where the Amazon "trading company" is "based" and the sales go through them where they pay the "super reduced rate" of 3% VAT on books (for example). If you put your "computer services" (ie MMO subs) through there then you pay 12% VAT. ....
So your claim is that when I buy a product in Germany I don't have the pay the German VAT rate as long as the company has a headquarters in a different country?
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2013-09-27 12:45:58 UTC
Herr Esiq wrote:


The problem is why CCP had to go with a vendor that excludes other countries from the option to buy.
The inability of the average EU resident to buy from the lowest seller isn't a CCP or Amazon issue, but an EU taxation issue.
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2013-09-27 12:48:39 UTC
VAT (value-added tax) on goods
In accordance with the laws governing members of the European Union, Amazon.de is obliged to charge VAT (Umsatzsteuer) on all orders delivered to destinations in member countries of the EU.

The VAT rate in Germany is only 7% on books, groceries (beverages and gift baskets excluded) and pet food. Items in our catalogue besides books, groceries and pet food are subject to the regular VAT rate of 19%. These also include, audiobooks, CD-roms, calendars, software items, and more.

The amounts displayed for goods sold by Amazon.de are inclusive of German VAT. However, your final price may differ depending on the actual VAT rate that applies to your order. If you enter a non-German delivery address, the VAT automatically changes to the rate that is applicable in your country. For EU customers outside of Germany, amounts of VAT charged are in accordance with the local legislation in each country.

You will be able to see your final price inclusive of applicable VAT before you confirm your order, when you have completed your order information (including your delivery address).

Please remember that VAT charges only apply to orders being sent to member countries of the EU.

For dispatch to countries outside of the EU, VAT will not be charged. These packages may, however, be assessed import or customs fees, depending on the laws of the particular countries.

Any customs or import duties are levied once the package reaches the destination country. Additional charges for customs clearance would have to be borne by the recipient; we have no control over these charges and cannot predict what they might be. Since customs policies vary widely from country to country, you may want to contact your local customs office for further information.

You can find the EU VAT rates (Umsatzsteuersätze) here (in German)
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog
B.L.U.E L.A.S.E.R.
#40 - 2013-09-27 13:00:58 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Look deeply enough, and you will likely find the incredibly ****** up EU intra-national trade laws to be the culprit of this. I can only imagine how long it took CCP to even figure out a way to make PLEX legal in the first place.

The price you pay for outright socialism, I suppose. As opposed to the states, where we lie to ourselves about being socialists now.

Either way, I feel sorry for my EU brethren, but at the same time I intend to take full, $100 at least advantage of this. No hard feelings. Twisted


I'd gladly pay a couple bucks more for video games for universal health care . . . Especially in exchange for not having to pay over $350 a month in premiums for **** coverage.

I am not an alt of Chribba.