Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Those comments on Local in Normal and WH space where written in a light hearted way and are no means a dig at anyone. Sorry you read them as such. Tough day at work and I want this to be a good discussion and not start throwing biomass at each other with name calling etc. Love the Harry comment though...that guy be crazy.

Yah.. work...
It's a pain but it pays the bills.

Oh, so you were actually saying that the ability of AFK cloaking to fool pilots DOES exist?

In that case, it is a valid tactic, and one used expressly by active pilots. They may not seem active while preparing it, but that is exactly how they want you to think.

And here I thought you were saying the tactic would never work, so it was pointless to permit it.

My mistake!

No, I'm saying That You cannot provide evidence that a pilot returning from AFK and killing someone would not have scored that kill had they been logged off in that system instead.
Look.
I see that you are trolling me. I see that your formula is say: "So what you are saying is: {insert randomly generated nonsense here}"

If you don't have anything constructive to add. Don't add anything.

I get this, everyone does but it's classed as not having Local. Please don't nit-pick it only aggravates.
Wormhole space also has advantages to weapon systems as well...so the "entree" is almost always at a disadvantage but somehow WH dwellers still get kicked around and out of their homes.

Any way that was well off-topic but thought it good to address. Nice points brought up above though but still doesn't matter as some Null systems can be choaked and it's not always down to the size of the ship. The problem as you identified is the hot-drop.

This was introduced because Local give you 100% accurate intelligence on who is in system before they even load grid. You no doubt check local, notice all the people who just landed are in the same Corp\Alliance and it's a fleet looking for a fight.

Cyno Up > Fleet in without that intel giving you the heads-up. Again it's to balance out Local. I'm really sorry to keep bringing this around to Local I don't want to but I'm stuck in a mechanic loop without an end clause except: Change Local and watch Hot Drops fall off (I imagine).

Using local is not easy or free any more than gatecamping is easy or free.
In the first place, you must watch local relentlessly and not miss a second. Similarly, when you gatecamp, you must watch the stargate relentlessly and if you miss a second, the target could get away. Gatecamping may be easier because the gate activation actually makes a sound, whereas the local change does not. .. perhaps fixing local means adding a sound for changes ... lol
Secondly, there is great effort in doing research on everyone in local (including blues tbph) and on everyone reported in intel changes from appearances in local. We research their killboards (free self-promotion for you) and every other bit of information connected to these players, including corp, corp history, alliance, time since character creation, etc.
Thirdly, we have to manually track the movements in the reports. There is no tool which shows on a map the current locations and the past locations of each reported player.
Fourth, players which are not blue to some but are blue to others are reported and it takes effort to sort that out.

So nothing is free and nothing is easy and nothing is 100% reliable. The intel we get from local to intel channels takes work, research, tracking, and has errors.

!!!What would be free is if a cyno stealth bomber entered system WITHOUT local announcing it, warped to each site until it found a pve target, decloaked and instantly pointed the target, instantly lit the hotdrop cyno, and got a free, easy kill for himself and all his friends!!! THAT is FREE, and EASY: The hidden from local cyno stealth bomber who didn't even have to decloak during warp to be caught on a VERY diligent dscan, and could still lock and point with zero delay from decloak. FREE and EASY for cyno stealth bombers right there with this commonly proposed "solution" to the afk cloaky issue. Thoughts?

Added: Lucas, a Nyx warping cloaked, even to and from deadspace? Seriously? I could never support a cloaked warp for any reason by anything other than a cov ops cloaky ship, or maybe even a black ops.

This is because you are purposefully asking for proof of something that is unprovable. There's probably some latin name for the type of horrendous logical mistake in this type of argument.

We do not know if the person who lost his ship lost it as a result of thinking "he's afk so I'm going to go mine some roids", or if it was because he had local minimised and undocked without checking, or even if he thought "this dude is active but I dont care", or any other possible reason. We cannot know that, stop asking that we prove it.

However, the possibility that it was that first reason exists. You cannot deny that it is a possible reason. We cannot "prove" it happens as nothing in the game mechanics, killboards, etc could possibly show that and because we cannot read minds. The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, though, as the saying goes.

Please refrain from such fallacies

Except it's not a "100% chance of loss" when someone new enters or stays in local, is it? They might be passing through. The ones who stay might be afk. There are plenty of other possibilities, so you are not guaranteed to lose a ship. There is a chance. You make a judgement as to what that chance is, and you weigh it against the benefits. That's good.

But then you ask that those chances, those judgements, be removed, because you don't like them. That's bad.

No, it's a 100% chance of loss if I engage you in an exhumer. You are telling me I'm a carebear if I don;t engage. I get it. You want easy kills. Go find them elsewhere.
YOU want to hide behind and exploited mechanic AND you can;t even prove that that does any good! That's bad.

Sigh...
You want local removed. So you will cry your way through anything I say as long as it suits your needs. I've read other threads you are in trolling other people in the same way. I'm trying to present a solution in a way that only AFK cloakers are affected but because I don;t want to nuke local you will restructure and reword anything I say to troll me.
Plain and simple: Make sense, present proper arguments and counter productively. If not, for all intents and purposes, you are dead to me on this thread.