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[Rubicon] Marauder rebalancing

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Shivanthar
#4021 - 2013-09-23 22:36:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Shivanthar
Cade Windstalker wrote:

Overall you're not making any sort of coherent case of why this is a better idea than the existing MJD bonus beyond "I think this is cooler" and there are plenty of reasons not to go with this over an MJD bonus.


First and foremost, I've been running missions with my Vargur, for last 2 years, all the time. Insta pops everything, tear things apart, you know the stuff.

Second, I sometimes use my drone fit TFI to do some MJD fantasy, if I ever need to. With this setup, soloing missions like worlds collide and dread pirate scarlett becomes as easy as a joke.

Third, on my way getting to Vargur, I used arty fit Maelstrom for 1-whole-year. Which means 8x1400 guns. That was a nice and big ship, I can't deny it.

Why am I telling these? Because I'm talking and making judgements based on what I've played with most. I'm not just brainstorming about something I'm not using, or not something I've been using once in a while.

Basic circumstances;
- My Vargur tears things apart. I'm in fully support on chaosgrimm here, since I experience exactly same stuff he describes. Two-shotting frigs if not one shot, 2-3 shotting cruisers, 10 shotting BS'. With faction guns and T1 ammo*

- This ship is designed to SOLO missions, I'm not telling this, it shows itself if you decide to fly one. By SOLO, I mean SOLO everything, from NPC to Salvaging wrecks, negating a need for a noctis.

- This ship's common fight range is 12-60km with usual fittings. You can shoot further foes, but everything will take longer time.

- For this reason, all wrecks are ordered in front of you, from 60-70km insta-popped guys to hard-shelled bs' wrecks towards you. I like to salvage every little thing, that is my enjoyment, because I make my own rigs with those salvaged wreck materials.

- For those missions where wrecks are seperated, you need to control your distance and location travelled. This is the main reason why mjd doesn't fit to this ships role.

- This ship is designed to take damage, which means it is designed for front-line pve fights. Why? One must see its shield boost bonus. It really works and there is a reason for it to be there.

- Fitting a MWD, I need to take out so much dps and some tank that gives me hell for it. I don't enjoy Vargur that way, so I always fit AB. MJD with any of these is out of question.

So;
- Why would I want to be a sniper with this ship? This is a solo mission runner and salvager. If I become a very powerful sniper @ 100km range, then everything will be torn apart on its place, without a chance to gather and come towards me. This also means I need to crawl at least two-three times with my 162 meters/second speed towards wrecks. Not very nice. And this also boosts a common problem of Marauders (tractor beam range)

- In Pve, with a marauder, why would I want to go 100km away? As I said, I have a TFI for it, if I want to stay stationary, I would bring my TFI with sentries, and shoot npcs in that way. Instead of training for Marauders, one may simply go with dominix with sentries, which will be much better @ same range, much cheaper @ same role and easier to train in equal time.

- This ship is intented to be a salvager at the same time. What I proposed was not because "it would be cool" stuff, but because I think it would be more logical for a Marauder to be a wreck stealer during fleet battles rather than a MJD'ing sniper. Heck, I can even fit a fly-by thrasher that can shoot from 100km... Why another ship?

- Of course noone has to like it, or even might find my proposal silly, but I must say that I play with this toy everyday. And last thing it needs is to become a stationary sniper. Mini-dread? Just because it is assembled in an adv. assembly array in 0.0, some "people" decided to find a cheaper replacement for their dreads and that is adding a sniping role to a Marauder? STATIONARY?

- Anyone can count a list of possible exploits to any proposal, I can understand that. I'm not a game designer anyway. But my eveyday-played-toy shouldn't meant to be this. This is NOT THAT SHIP.

_Half _the lies they tell about me **aren't **true.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#4022 - 2013-09-23 23:33:27 UTC
Debora Tsung wrote:
Can't say it often enough, with the latest iteration (a.k.a. almost a webbing ship) the EWAR immunity in bastion mode is the only thing that makes the marauder halfway interesting.

I personally liked the first iteration of the marauder better, but I guess that's up to preference and what you want to do with it (I still won't believe that it's totally useless in incursions, but whatever) and most importantly which marauder you fly.

If CCP is hell bent on keeping that web bonus, so be it, I might even fit one webber just for the giggles.

Actually, let me clarify my first sentence a bit: Right now the EWAR immunity is the only thing that makes the bastion module interesting.

Yup, EWAR immunity makes the bastion module interesting, not the marauder itself.

In that regards I'd (given the opportunity) even vote for making the bastion module available for all battleships and assign a whole new role to the marauder, might be more interesting than the "every marauder is the same now" update.

I've read some interesting ideas lately:

Maraduers with bubble immunity and faster lock time for e.g.

EDIT: The mining Marauder... that made me laugh so hard, I'd vote for that just to read the comments if CCP did that. Lol

Marauders as they are now but with some skill level depended bonus on bastion modules (presuming the bastion module would be available for all battleships).

Stuff like that, nothing to outlandish but still interesting.


exactly, they don't really need extra tank (okay that shield boost bonus probably means I can shield tank my kronos and/or paladin if I really wanted to), and for the most part are pretty far into diminishing returns on any other bonus.

pretty much everything else is meh.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Zoe Israfil
#4023 - 2013-09-23 23:54:06 UTC
Bastion Arzi wrote:
i'll ask again.

Does anybody know if the range bonus (25%) extends to all modules? ie disruptors, webs etc?



The range bonus ONLY applies to Turret / Missile modules. NOTHING ELSE. Further the +5 optimal and +5 falloff provide mathematically the same bonus as the single +5% missile velocity due to how each functions.
ISD Tyrozan
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#4024 - 2013-09-24 03:48:48 UTC
A post was removed for ranting, bypassing the profanity filter, and personal attacks.

Forum rules.

ISD Tyrozan

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

@ISDTyrozan | @ISD_CCL
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#4025 - 2013-09-24 04:04:19 UTC
"Unliking" due to the lack of CCP response.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Tlat Ij
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#4026 - 2013-09-24 05:13:51 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
I think you may be reading a different FaID Forum than the rest of us. Yes, if they go silent right before an expansion that generally means things are finalized, that's sort of to be expected since they're going to be working on final polish and pushing things live. This is months out though and our last word was "we'll have more for you later but nothing new for a bit".

I don't know how you're getting "this is what's going to Live" from that... Ugh
Judging from past threads while CCP is reviewing/testing things they respond to the threads, once they stop responding (last CCP post here is #2721 from CCP Rise nearly 3 weeks back) that seems to be what gets put on Sisi and once something is put on Sisi they seem to ignore most feedback and it gets put on TQ with very few, if any changes from the Sisi version.

And yes the expansion is probably ~2.5-3 months away but the according to CCP Ytterbium they want public testing before they finalize things and given their track record on changing things in response to feedback from Sisi that would mean that the new marauders would need to be on Sisi soon (not Soon™) or else they simply won't have time to make any changes before it goes to TQ, especially since they still have to do artwork for the new ships.
valdo ryia
Temp Corp 8
#4027 - 2013-09-24 05:21:17 UTC
i'd just like the say in light of all the negative comments i absolutely love the changes its absolutely everything i want for my paladin. more cap, more power, more range, more repping, more mobility, more resistances. new bonuses are beautiful and im really excited about the changes. im sure ill miss a bit of the speed loss but im absolutely willing to put up with that.
RaVeN077
Archon Corporation
#4028 - 2013-09-24 07:45:43 UTC
At first I liked the idea. However logically I don't know if it all works well together. The MJD allows you to position yourself where you want, so for some that is on the edge of the fight blapping at long range (at which point the rep bonus is not really needed) or in the middle of the fight where the range bonuses are not needed.

If you want to allow freedom of play styles without tipping too much of an advantage over other battleships, I would propose two different bastion models (of course you could only fit one at a time) one with long range perks such as an optimal range and damage bonus and a close range model with the rep bonus and a tracking perk. It would fall in well with how eve is already constructed with short range and long range weapon and ammo types.

In short the bastion mod should play into the short range game or the long range game and not try and do both. The kitchen sink style of play and fitting never seems to match up to the dedicated fitting or play style.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#4029 - 2013-09-24 09:28:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Ralph King-Griffin
Tlat Ij wrote:
Cade Windstalker wrote:
I think you may be reading a different FaID Forum than the rest of us. Yes, if they go silent right before an expansion that generally means things are finalized, that's sort of to be expected since they're going to be working on final polish and pushing things live. This is months out though and our last word was "we'll have more for you later but nothing new for a bit".

I don't know how you're getting "this is what's going to Live" from that... Ugh
Judging from past threads while CCP is reviewing/testing things they respond to the threads, once they stop responding (last CCP post here is #2721 from CCP Rise nearly 3 weeks back) that seems to be what gets put on Sisi and once something is put on Sisi they seem to ignore most feedback and it gets put on TQ with very few, if any changes from the Sisi version.

And yes the expansion is probably ~2.5-3 months away but the according to CCP Ytterbium they want public testing before they finalize things and given their track record on changing things in response to feedback from Sisi that would mean that the new marauders would need to be on Sisi soon (not Soon™) or else they simply won't have time to make any changes before it goes to TQ, especially since they still have to do artwork for the new ships.

Art assets are done, csm has apparently seen one of the transformations, which would lead me to think that this is being driven by some **** cool design as oppose to bastion actually having merit in and of itself,(don't get me wrong, I still want it,) you can kinda see this in the disparity between iterations , "well, its Gota do something"

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Edora Madullier
French Kiss Singularity
#4030 - 2013-09-24 09:40:49 UTC
chaosgrimm wrote:
Silence the Informant, come on man, this joke got old 4 missions ago... Not only are they easily killed... but you dont need to kill them, even if they web you you can just tractor the mission item. "but but what about loot and salvage!!!"... its full of frigs and you can loot and salvage the BS's on the marauder with no trouble..


Are you sure you're a mission runner?

There is no mission item in Silence the Informant. A Rogue Drone pocket, a Mercenary pocket, and then the final one with sentries and a single NPC you have to kill.

And yes, the frigates are pretty annoying in this one (second pocket,a little less in a Vargur), but with the proposed change regarding the MJD, you'll just have to jump, oneshot them, and then jump back. In addition, I've never seen Mercenary Wingmen attack my drones if they were attacking me first.
Shivanthar
#4031 - 2013-09-24 10:05:50 UTC
Edora Madullier wrote:
chaosgrimm wrote:
Silence the Informant, come on man, this joke got old 4 missions ago... Not only are they easily killed... but you dont need to kill them, even if they web you you can just tractor the mission item. "but but what about loot and salvage!!!"... its full of frigs and you can loot and salvage the BS's on the marauder with no trouble..


Are you sure you're a mission runner?

There is no mission item in Silence the Informant. A Rogue Drone pocket, a Mercenary pocket, and then the final one with sentries and a single NPC you have to kill.

And yes, the frigates are pretty annoying in this one (second pocket,a little less in a Vargur), but with the proposed change regarding the MJD, you'll just have to jump, oneshot them, and then jump back. In addition, I've never seen Mercenary Wingmen attack my drones if they were attacking me first.


He might simply be referring to killing the agent and warping out. Talking about one mission after other, crap happens sometimes.

@chaos: man, don't think too fast ;)

_Half _the lies they tell about me **aren't **true.
chaosgrimm
Synth Tech
#4032 - 2013-09-24 11:00:04 UTC  |  Edited by: chaosgrimm
Edora Madullier wrote:
chaosgrimm wrote:
Silence the Informant, come on man, this joke got old 4 missions ago... Not only are they easily killed... but you dont need to kill them, even if they web you you can just tractor the mission item. "but but what about loot and salvage!!!"... its full of frigs and you can loot and salvage the BS's on the marauder with no trouble..


Are you sure you're a mission runner?

There is no mission item in Silence the Informant. A Rogue Drone pocket, a Mercenary pocket, and then the final one with sentries and a single NPC you have to kill.

And yes, the frigates are pretty annoying in this one (second pocket,a little less in a Vargur), but with the proposed change regarding the MJD, you'll just have to jump, oneshot them, and then jump back. In addition, I've never seen Mercenary Wingmen attack my drones if they were attacking me first.

Ah nice catch, memory failed me there was thinking of Stop the Thief for some reason and looting reports off Shadow. I will keep my original opinion on Silence the Informant though of the web not being needed, plenty of stuff to shoot while ur drones kill frigs. You spawn very close to the gate.

Def agreed on the mjd and one shotting. My point to cade is that dmg app is fine on marauders. And lawl I'm pretty sure imma mission runner anyway xD
chaosgrimm
Synth Tech
#4033 - 2013-09-24 11:17:29 UTC
Shivanthar wrote:

@chaos: man, don't think too fast ;)


Haha, thx brah. Went on a rant and confused 2 missions. My bad, my bad xD
Cade Windstalker
#4034 - 2013-09-24 11:35:03 UTC
TheFace Asano wrote:

You can swap a script for up close, the optimal is pretty useless up close anyway. The fourth gyro would replace tank, and I do sometimes depending on the situation. It makes a small difference at most, very small. I usually rig 2x tank 1x damage (or tracking) depending on the ship.


Unless it lets you use higher damage ammo in which case that extra range can make a big difference in DPS. "Up close" is a fairly ambiguous term and varies wildly based on which weapon system you're referring to.

TheFace Asano wrote:
It would only be power creep if it was outside Bastion Mode. Bastion Mode, like Siege mode, has drawbacks. I am not promoting any damage increase outside of the mode, only inside Bastion Mode. Again make the drawbacks more severe, just make the mode worth the risk of a 1 billion+ isk ship being locked in place for a minute and not being able to dock or jump system for another minute past that.


No, any increase in sub-cap DPS is power-creep because no matter what the draw-back is you can find a way to overcome it with fleet support. This is the current problem with "Dread-blapping" where a dreadnaught with support can cycle its guns once and remove an enemy ship from the field.

Plus CCP have repeatedly stated, with good reason, that T2 ships are not supposed to be cost-effective they're supposed to make each individual pilot more effective. If you field a couple billion in HACs and then field that same ISK value in T2 fitted T1 cruisers the HACs are going to lose hilariously. They're also going to be out-numbered about 3 or 4 to 1. If you field 100 pilots in T1 cruiers vs 100 pilots in HACs the HACs are going to clean house and probably barely take losses if there's logi support.

TheFace Asano wrote:
The class has several key drawbacks. First they require a ton of SP to fly. Second is the hull and mod pricetag. This limits them in pvp use without anything else. Lets say they can do 2 battleships worth of dps in Bastion Mode. Your still at an exponential isk pricetag for a standard T1 Battleship (lets say a modest 250 million for hull and fittings to pvp in). Thats around 5 times more isk for twice the damage performance. T2 HACs can do 20-50 percent more damage than their T1 counterparts......


First off SP is not a balancing factor, it's just a barrier to entry. That logic was what got us AOE Doomsdays and the game still hasn't found a real and meaningful use for Super Capitals beyond glorified taxi service and interstellar ship slingshot.

The HACs are also something of an exception to the rule of ship specialization and retained their role as essentially beefier T1 hulls only out of momentum and popularity. They also didn't get any particularly special bonuses. The MWD sig radius bonus is nice but not as impressive as some of the other T2 role or hull bonuses.

Plus, again, not cost effective ships even with the extra damage.


TheFace Asano wrote:
For MIn/Maxing the percentage will be measured in long periods of time, not the short term. The Bastion Module should give a large gain in the short term for it's large downsides. This should be true for both PVE and PVP applications. Anything else is really not worth locking yourself in place for bombers to easily hot drop you. We can figure how many bombers it would take to easily one-shot any one of these marauders, as the reps will make little to no difference in that scenario....


Bombers are a null-sec only scenario that can be negated by destroying said bombers before the bombs detonate.

In general any sort of steep trade-off is only going to be worth it some of the time. If what you have is an obviously worth-while trade-off then that's not much of a trade-off at all. Dreadnaughts are a perfect example of this. The Siege module is, at best, something to force them to commit to the field, there's no real, meaningful decision there about whether you're going to use the module or not.
Cade Windstalker
#4035 - 2013-09-24 11:35:17 UTC
... post continued due to character limits.

TheFace Asano wrote:
I am also going to ask for what fit you have that is having a hard time with frigs or cruisers in missions. Outside of them getting under your guns, drones are "usually" not needed. With precision cruise, even elite frigs will die within a volley or 2 at any range. 5 hobgoblin 2's are enough to quickly make work of those that are close, and you should be able to tank a whole mess of them with a single shield boost or armor rep for quite a long time. On my other toon I use Auto cannons, blasters, rails and arties. They all work well at killing frigs at mostly 15k or more. Autocannons its more like 6k or under. 1400 Arties will one-two shot most cruisers at all ranges down to 15k or so and one shot frigs at ranges above 25k or so. Swapping scripts on TC's will improve this. I also use sentry drones to take out frigs. 3-4x unbonused sentries will make pretty quick work of a frig down to 15k. Using a MJD once in a while will help you pull away from them on long range gun fits. Cruise ships don't need one usually because the precisions make quick work of them no matter the range.


I'm not saying I have a problem with frigates and cruisers, I'm saying that if you can kill them faster you can lower your mission completion time noticeably. Drones can be picked off, especially with the changes to the AI, and quite a few missions have a very high frigate and cruiser count. Since these ships take, generally, fewer than 5 volleys to kill if you catch them coming in then anything that reduces that number of volleys has a high % change in your time to kill that ship.

If you can kill all frigates before they get in range then you don't even need to risk your drones.

I'm not talking about "pretty quick", frigates and cruisers always die "pretty quick" in missions. The question is how many shots that equates to and at what range. My Rail-Rokh can one shot almost all frigates and most cruisers at even 50km since it can push Antimatter out that far and still be in optimal. This requires it to get a very solid hit though and isn't reliable without fitting enough tracking to compromise my tank, and even then there's room for improvement.

I am, overall, far less concerned with Artillery and Cruiser Missiles. Missile ships need damage application mods to really benefit from this though Target Painters and even webs help to some degree. Artillery should be one-shotting almost anything below a BC hull since every cycle from 1400s is almost 15 seconds and they're the highest alpha weapons system. The better question is how much is required to still project damage comfortably on Autocannons which would benefit far more from increased range.
Cade Windstalker
#4036 - 2013-09-24 11:36:30 UTC
Tlat Ij wrote:
Judging from past threads while CCP is reviewing/testing things they respond to the threads, once they stop responding (last CCP post here is #2721 from CCP Rise nearly 3 weeks back) that seems to be what gets put on Sisi and once something is put on Sisi they seem to ignore most feedback and it gets put on TQ with very few, if any changes from the Sisi version.

And yes the expansion is probably ~2.5-3 months away but the according to CCP Ytterbium they want public testing before they finalize things and given their track record on changing things in response to feedback from Sisi that would mean that the new marauders would need to be on Sisi soon (not Soon™) or else they simply won't have time to make any changes before it goes to TQ, especially since they still have to do artwork for the new ships.


You're still not providing any evidence of past threads where this has occurred, especially not this far out from an expansion. Also the versions that tend to hit Sisi tend to not need very much revision once they get to that point. The threads have started to approach consensus with few to no well supported criticisms remaining. Small tweaks generally occur based on Sisi testing but nothing major because the ships are already in a fairly solid state at that point. Consider me unconvinced.

Also the CSM has already commented that they saw an early version of the animations at the CSM summit so work on these has already started if not nearly finished.
Kane Fenris
NWP
#4037 - 2013-09-24 11:42:53 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:

Kane Fenris wrote:
Cade Windstalker wrote:
If you aren't moving then there is no difference in align time based on direction of your align.


there is....

you can use mjd after mjd finished you are at 100% speed if you were already alinged and can warp instantly
this would not work if you could not alingn while not moveing


I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here. Some of this is inaccurate though. The MJD does not place you at your destination at 100% speed it places you there at whatever speed you were at when the jump occurred.

Also there is no difference in align time to any point if you are moving at 0 meters per second. This can be easily confirmed by jumping through a gate and then aligning in a random direction and timing the warp with a stop watch. Variance of ~1 second is expected due to server ticks and communication lag.


no im right....

you are :
-aligned
-at 0m/s

-> hit align then instantly hit mjd
you accelerate while mjd cycles
mjd triggers -> you are alinged at 100% or near 100% speed (near enough to warp) -> instant warp

so you can align at 0m/s in bastion mode when mode finishes you hit aling and mjd so if you dont get scramed while mjd cycles you always get away!
Cade Windstalker
#4038 - 2013-09-24 11:51:29 UTC
I've already addressed some things here in another post to another person so I'll be brief on those points.

Shivanthar wrote:
First and foremost, I've been running missions with my Vargur, for last 3 years, all the time. Insta pops everything, tear things apart, you know the stuff.

Second, I sometimes use my drone fit TFI to do some MJD fantasy, if I ever need to. With this setup, soloing missions like worlds collide and dread pirate scarlett becomes as easy as a joke.

Third, on my way getting to Vargur, I used arty fit Maelstrom for 1-whole-year. Which means 8x1400 guns. That was a nice and big ship, I can't deny it.

Why am I telling these? Because I'm talking and making judgements based on what I've played with most. I'm not just brainstorming about something I'm not using, or not something I've been using once in a while.

Basic circumstances;
- My Vargur tears things apart. I'm in fully support on chaosgrimm here, since I experience exactly same stuff he describes. Two-shotting frigs if not one shot, 2-3 shotting cruisers, 10 shotting BS'. With faction guns and T1 ammo*

- This ship is designed to SOLO missions, I'm not telling this, it shows itself if you decide to fly one. By SOLO, I mean SOLO everything, from NPC to Salvaging wrecks, negating a need for a noctis.

- This ship's common fight range is 12-60km with usual fittings. You can shoot further foes, but everything will take longer time.


As I already touched on Artillery benefits very little from this beyond tracking. If it hits cleanly something dies, but it has a very long cycle time making it very inefficient for killing smaller ships in missions since a lot of the damage is going to be "wasted".

At this point the question is how many shots does it take you with autocannons and what's required to drop, say, one shot per ship off of your kill times with autocannons. With autocannons tracking is far less of an issue. It can still factor but it doesn't matter as much especially outside of web-range. At this point the question is how much DPS can you push how far. Since autocannons fight in falloff every little bit of extra range translates into more damage per shot which can lower your kill times and thus your mission completion time.

Shivanthar wrote:
- For this reason, all wrecks are ordered in front of you, from 60-70km insta-popped guys to hard-shelled bs' wrecks towards you. I like to salvage every little thing, that is my enjoyment, because I make my own rigs with those salvaged wreck materials.

- For those missions where wrecks are seperated, you need to control your distance and location travelled. This is the main reason why mjd doesn't fit to this ships role.

- This ship is designed to take damage, which means it is designed for front-line pve fights. Why? One must see its shield boost bonus. It really works and there is a reason for it to be there.

- Fitting a MWD, I need to take out so much dps and some tank that gives me hell for it. I don't enjoy Vargur that way, so I always fit AB. MJD with any of these is out of question.

So;
- Why would I want to be a sniper with this ship? This is a solo mission runner and salvager. If I become a very powerful sniper @ 100km range, then everything will be torn apart on its place, without a chance to gather and come towards me. This also means I need to crawl at least two-three times with my 162 meters/second speed towards wrecks. Not very nice. And this also boosts a common problem of Marauders (tractor beam range)

- In Pve, with a marauder, why would I want to go 100km away? As I said, I have a TFI for it, if I want to stay stationary, I would bring my TFI with sentries, and shoot npcs in that way. Instead of training for Marauders, one may simply go with dominix with sentries, which will be much better @ same range, much cheaper @ same role and easier to train in equal time.

- This ship is intented to be a salvager at the same time. What I proposed was not because "it would be cool" stuff, but because I think it would be more logical for a Marauder to be a wreck stealer during fleet battles rather than a MJD'ing sniper. Heck, I can even fit a fly-by thrasher that can shoot from 100km... Why another ship?

- Of course noone has to like it, or even might find my proposal silly, but I must say that I play with this toy everyday. And last thing it needs is to become a stationary sniper. Mini-dread? Just because it is assembled in an adv. assembly array in 0.0, some "people" decided to find a cheaper replacement for their dreads and that is adding a sniping role to a Marauder? STATIONARY?

- Anyone can count a list of possible exploits to any proposal, I can understand that. I'm not a game designer anyway. But my eveyday-played-toy shouldn't meant to be this. This is NOT THAT SHIP.


I prefer killing and salvaging everything as well, though I come in with a noctis after I'm done to clear things up. I find it relaxing rather than managing an extra set of targets while running the mission.

For missions where the rats are further out a MJD is going to server your purposes better than an MWD since you can put yourself within range of a T2 tractor beam with only a single jump. If the range bonus goes up to 150% then that becomes even easier.

With autocannons the range bonus helps you do more damage since you're fighting in falloff even if you somehow have enough tracking that that doesn't factor (in my opinion there's no such thing). This lets you kill things faster within your salvage range.

For Hybrids, which is where most of my experience lies, it lets you use higher damage ammo at longer ranges and achieve a similar effect but with more ammo swapping. Tracking is more of a consideration though, especially inside of Antimatter ranges.
Cade Windstalker
#4039 - 2013-09-24 11:54:22 UTC
Kane Fenris wrote:
no im right....

you are :
-aligned
-at 0m/s

-> hit align then instantly hit mjd
you accelerate while mjd cycles
mjd triggers -> you are alinged at 100% or near 100% speed (near enough to warp) -> instant warp

so you can align at 0m/s in bastion mode when mode finishes you hit aling and mjd so if you dont get scramed while mjd cycles you always get away!


Ah, okay, I thought there was a disconnect here. I thought you meant that the module left you at 100% speed.

Also you can't align while your speed is set to 0 m/s. Besides which the facing of your ship does not impact align speed unless your ship is moving.

Therefore the MJD doesn't impact the time it takes you to get into warp, it just allows you to potentially escape a bubble if the people trying to hold you down didn't bring a Warp Scrambler.
Cade Windstalker
#4040 - 2013-09-24 11:56:24 UTC
chaosgrimm wrote:
Ah nice catch, memory failed me there was thinking of Stop the Thief for some reason and looting reports off Shadow. I will keep my original opinion on Silence the Informant though of the web not being needed, plenty of stuff to shoot while ur drones kill frigs. You spawn very close to the gate.

Def agreed on the mjd and one shotting. My point to cade is that dmg app is fine on marauders. And lawl I'm pretty sure imma mission runner anyway xD


And my point wasn't that these missions are difficult to complete, just that you can always complete a mission faster.

Personally I've been getting drones chewed up by frigates though, which makes killing them with guns before they get close very attractive from a completion time standpoint.