Player Features and Ideas Discussion

That's fine, but the benefit of covert cynos also needs to be shared, and cloakers only get income if they have a PVE capable fit. Oh and covops ships need to cost like 200m.

EDIT: The thing is, what you are arguing for here already exists. If you want to make isk, make isk. There's a whole exploration profession devoted to covops ships. You want a covops to have no nerfs, but get buffed into being more viable at PvP that a combat ship. Use it for it's purpose and you can stop being so sad about how bad it is to be a cloaker.

I wouldn't know, since (well it's something i can't prove by showing you charts) the markets of the region i dwell in are completely delivered from Jita. Meaning that such "indies" as yourself will have little to none impact on that aspect of my play.
I order couriers 1-2 time/week, get anything i need form BattleShips to ammo, pay my corpmate that runs them, and thank him.
So i think you do give yourself a bit too much value as a "bolt in the machine", and in addition to the fact that you won't put out to roams - that makes you negligible content-wise.

Could you show me some killmails from such engagements you describe? Not as part of a CTA/some organized ops but rather as some one who puts out to those who roam him, hom-def or whatever? I mean such a scenario where you mine, see a gang, re-ship and fight? Cause you kind of said that it's counterproductive for your ISK making between ops, so ... I dunno - you contradict yourself again...

How do I? I want changes that mean you have to put effort in, even minimal effort, to stop me making isk. That's all. I at no point state that I want to constantly do what I want, that's you misinterpreting my words.

A bot that clicks your screen once every half hour is no different from a bot that clicks every few minutes, except of course the number of clicks. The simple act of making something against the EULA does make the majority of people not do that thing, regardless of whether you would or not.
I have NO ISSUE with active cloakers, so no fix would be required.

That's not effort though. If that's the case, why aren't mining bots built in? The character must be logged in so surely I should be able to autogenerate income.
I draw the line at NO AFK ACTIVITY should be beneficial. You simply chose to draw the line beyond there.
It doesn't matter to him where his character is, since he's probably at work or out, or any number of other activities that don't combine with anyone else's ability to play EVE.
I get it though, you think AFK cloakers are fine, even though they are benefiting while AFK. I don't. I probably won't change your mind, and you definitely won't change mine. There's nothing fundamentally wrong with either side, so why do we need to continue this?

Thus removing the last 1% risk you have remained?


Oh, but it is. Strange you don't see that, as a programmer you said you are.
I am not as sure about the integrity of the general human population, as you are... And you didn't understand what i said -
There will be cloakies that workaround this ridiculous fix, thus seeming NON-AFK, while being AFK, POST FIX.
So you'll be in even worse state that you're now, you'll have to THINK that they are not AFK...

But he isn't active while being AFK, he's just cloaked somewhere, come on now. If he's AFK, how can he be benefiting?
I don't know, why do you continue this =) ?

Of course, that's what people been laughing about all along. You just overthink everything, pretending to know when someone is there and when he's not, the quantity of time the guy is AFK vs. the time he's actually there...
All your case is built on your fantasy, no other way to put it. It would be a shame to devoid your fantasy of stimuli, i think.
It's on the end of your client buddy, and i really think you could deal with this without touching the mechanics, which was pretty much what CCP said, didn't they - they won't touch it ...

No, it's no different. a click is a click. Most bots will simply click in certain places at certain times, or click drag in others.
sure, there are people out there using advanced bots that do all sorts of stuff, bot most are simple. They will do nothing beyond clicking and dragging in specific locations, relying on your client being set up with the right overview settings.
And I understand what you are saying, I just believe most people would not break the EULA on purpose.

If an AFK cloaker ISN'T BENEFITING, why does he do it?

I'm going to go do other stuff for a bit. I may or may not be back later depending on whether I begin to care.
Please, by all means continue to troll.

And from your own posts you've admitted that you react the same way regardless of whether they're AFK or not, and that you can escape 99% of the time (the 1% being glitches or physics engine 'fun')

So why are you asking for changes to be made when it makes no difference to you? Especially changes that are demonstrably unbalanced, and act as punishments/nerfs to active players?

Bonus round:
Lucas, this entire page you have discussed the "benefits" and effects afk cloaked players have. Obviously, the benefits and effect you are talking about is that as a result of their presence, people dock up (and therefore their profits, industry, etc are negatively impacted) or if they undock they run the risk of being killed.

So obviously, removing afk cloaked players remove these risks. The risk of losing income or losing a ship is reduced as a result.

So it is very, very clear that the proposed changes result in reduced risk for nullbears. This kind of destroys your whole "there isn't less risk" statement from a page or so ago. Admit that the proposals reduce risk.

hope this helps

My bad, now fixed.