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[Rubicon] Marauder rebalancing

First post First post First post
Author
JC Anderson
RED ROSE THORN
#3961 - 2013-09-22 13:34:36 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
"Can 1 ccp guy give a **** and read all this **** and give us a reply .."

Not with that attitude.

Be gratefull they are taking this long at LEAST....



GRATEFUL!?!?!

But this is EVE!!!!
Gargantoi
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3962 - 2013-09-22 14:09:21 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
"Can 1 ccp guy give a **** and read all this **** and give us a reply .."

Not with that attitude.

Be gratefull they are taking this long at LEAST....


Thats what they get paid for bro ...like it or not eve is a service that has costumers...if no one would play eve would go bankrupt ..so yeah like the other 100+ people that replyed to this we would like an answer on how this is going ..even if they say : we are still testing bla bla ..but still is an answer ...with the bs's they posted before fan fest the patch notes ..replyed then after fan fest no reply and they went on and did it ..so lets hope the same **** doesent happen here and we get golem with webs and other ******** **** like that
Motoi Yamato
Riiizses Riiizs
#3963 - 2013-09-22 14:35:56 UTC
but what was the point not givinfg marauders t2 resists? they are t2 ships...

a like the bastion modul, but it not so usefull for pve
lets have another hull take the DPS role, or the tnaking role...

make the tank huills pve marauders and the dps hulls pvp marauders
marVLs
#3964 - 2013-09-22 15:53:36 UTC  |  Edited by: marVLs
Some peps forget about important thing. Second iteration was a nerf to nerfed marauders... why?

By removing 37.5% rep bonusAttention

You will say: "bu bu but they give full T2 resists". But there's two problems with that:

1. T2 resists are worse than 30% res bonus on bastion to all damage types, and they were applied even to hull Attention with first bastion version, golem gets at least those 30% to EM, paladin gets better for em, therm, but now it has terrible resists, totally useless for PVE.

2. Let's take golem, without bastion, firstly if You fight against EM damage type rats You tank them a lot better thanks to 37.5% rep bonus, now You got only little better thermal res, so not even close good to first version... Same for paladin.

Im still voting for making marauders biggest raw DPS BS's, and Pirate BS's to be fastest, biger buffer, and better aplication BS's.

For PVE You don't need incredible tank, or PVP modules, so lacks in application bonuses should be counter by fitting slots with those modules (TC's etc), and for PVP thanks to bonuses to application pirate BS's could use slots for PVP modules.


Another Bastion idea:


  • it buffs You'r DPS
  • gives EWAR immunity
  • gives omni resists but not so much, let's say 20%

  • allows remote reps...

but...

  • completely turn off local reps for entire duration of the cycle


  • Could be cool, will You risk incoming DPS for Your DPS boost? Will Your buffer hold on for 1min when You will kill NPC's faster? Will You risk? Of course You can bring friend with logi, and that's good, afterall it's MMO game. Multiboxing? Ok, more cash for CCP thanks to another subscribed account.
    Joe Risalo
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #3965 - 2013-09-22 17:38:41 UTC
    marVLs wrote:



    Another Bastion idea:


    • it buffs You'r DPS
    • gives EWAR immunity
    • gives omni resists but not so much, let's say 20%

    • allows remote reps...

    but...

  • completely turn off local reps for entire duration of the cycle


  • Could be cool, will You risk incoming DPS for Your DPS boost? Will Your buffer hold on for 1min when You will kill NPC's faster? Will You risk? Of course You can bring friend with logi, and that's good, afterall it's MMO game. Multiboxing? Ok, more cash for CCP thanks to another subscribed account.


    This would be great for pvp'ers and even group pve.
    However, this would be TERRIBLE for solo pve.

    You want dps?
    You want resist?
    You want ewar immunity?
    Cool, use bastion

    Do you wanna be able to self rep?
    Well, you're going to have to skip bastion and suck in a ship just like you do now...
    Hell, probably suck worse cause you'll probably lose a portion of your 100% damage buff outside of bastion in order to give bastion a damage buff that's worth it.

    It's almost a good idea, but not quite...
    Vrykolakasis
    Sparrowhawks Corp
    #3966 - 2013-09-22 18:51:19 UTC
    Xequecal wrote:
    Marauders in grind PvE where only DPS really matters are balanced by the fact that they can loot/salvage and run the PvE content simultaneously. Anoms are generally not salvaged because it's better ISK to just use that time running another anom. Being able to salvage it while you're running it while still putting out 90% of the DPS you were doing before is way better ISK/hour than you can make with anything else.

    Marauders really shine in PvE where tank actually matters, especially wormholes. These ships as currently designed will kill capital escalations because it's way better ISK/hour just to run C3 anoms with them. You can make 250-300m/hour easily from C3s at current prices with a Paladin as currently spoiled. 40km range conflag that will kill 15-20m sleeper BS rats in under a minute, and then salvages and loots that rat while you're shooting the next one? You can't beat that.


    This was the idea about Marauders when I started the game, before the introduction of the Noctis, but quite honestly, the ISK/hr is noticeably better in L4 missions if you kill the rats in your Marauder/Higher dps ship, and return to the site with a Noctis, so long as the mission is within a jump or two of your agent. Marauders limited number of tractor beams, slow salvaging rate, and small cargo bay in comparison to the Noctis waste much more time than the time spent in warp to switch ships and come back. If you save bookmarks for your missions and salvage once every hour and a half or so it is even more efficient, given the far reduced travel time.

    Given the slowness of salvaging in a marauder, it might be arguable that this method is better even if your salvaging ship is a destroyer. I don't know exactly about the ISK efficiency in a C3, I can definitely see what you mean since sleepers take so much longer to kill. I would have to experiment to comment on that. Still, I don't think marauders should be balanced around running solo PvE in C3s.
    Just Lilly
    #3967 - 2013-09-22 19:51:27 UTC
    I want some of that blue feedback


    Thank you
    Powered by Nvidia GTX 690
    
    Ralph King-Griffin
    New Eden Tech Support
    #3968 - 2013-09-22 20:41:14 UTC
    Gargantoi wrote:
    Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
    "Can 1 ccp guy give a **** and read all this **** and give us a reply .."

    Not with that attitude.

    Be gratefull they are taking this long at LEAST....


    Thats what they get paid for bro ...like it or not eve is a service that has costumers...if no one would play eve would go bankrupt ..so yeah like the other 100+ people that replyed to this we would like an answer on how this is going ..even if they say : we are still testing bla bla ..but still is an answer ...with the bs's they posted before fan fest the patch notes ..replyed then after fan fest no reply and they went on and did it ..so lets hope the same **** doesent happen here and we get golem with webs and other ******** **** like that


    your local doctors, police,civil servants,teachers,lecturers not to mention any and all service persons you deal with in day to day life get paid for whatever services they make available to you.

    Their entitlement to courtesy is in no way diminished by making a living from it.

    I agree that an update would be nice but not at the behest of the usual irate consumer **** , calm down, don't hurt yourself , its just a ship rebalancing.
    Ralph King-Griffin
    New Eden Tech Support
    #3969 - 2013-09-22 20:42:25 UTC
    Just Lilly wrote:
    I want some of that blue feedback


    Thank you

    This guy gets it.
    Ralph King-Griffin
    New Eden Tech Support
    #3970 - 2013-09-22 20:55:09 UTC
    JC Anderson wrote:
    Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
    "Can 1 ccp guy give a **** and read all this **** and give us a reply .."

    Not with that attitude.

    Be gratefull they are taking this long at LEAST....



    GRATEFUL!?!?!

    But this is EVE!!!!


    Check the bf3 "forums" , puts this community to shame in terms of eloquent articulation of views and opinions.
    Arthur Aihaken
    CODE.d
    #3971 - 2013-09-22 22:46:59 UTC
    So where did things leave off? The second iteration? (not really thrilled at the prospect of sifting through 100+ some odd pages for an update)

    I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

    DSpite Culhach
    #3972 - 2013-09-22 22:50:06 UTC
    I don't see why each racial hull could not do a few unique things.

    If they are still meant to be efficient mission running hulls, they should justify their use in all the PvE content in the game, including running deep enemy null and wormhole space and exploration and incursions AND whatever CCP adds next.

    I still don't understand why not have a "PvE dedicated" ship. We already have cargo ships and recon ships, and those don't get taken into PvP combat. Well, not by sane people anyway.

    I apparently have no idea what I'm doing.

    Heinrich Rotwang
    Spectre Fleet Corporation
    #3973 - 2013-09-22 23:48:02 UTC
    New role upcoming : grab a marauder, find yourself some w-space with an ewar d*ckstar whos owners are offline, siege (or "bastion"), reinforce POS while watching a movie?
    Reaver Glitterstim
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #3974 - 2013-09-23 00:18:11 UTC
    Now that exploration, time to marauder? I am agree with this adjustment speculation. Please make the bastion animations take less time than the Rorqual industrial core animation and I will be a happy red star!

    FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

    Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

    Joe Risalo
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #3975 - 2013-09-23 00:47:45 UTC
    I don't know about you guys, but I'd like to hear something soon..
    Need to know whether or not I'm going to start saving up for a golem, cause I don't think I wanna sell my nightmare.
    Agwarin
    Dark Matter Investments
    #3976 - 2013-09-23 02:12:47 UTC
    Wooo, this thread is approaching 200 pages! Who knew Marauders would be so exciting!

    I support the changes, however, I did prefer the changes suggested before the changes changed to the new changes. But so far it seems good to me, overall.

    The Tornado can suck it. I want theĀ Naru-Kami

    NiteNinja
    Doomheim
    #3977 - 2013-09-23 02:13:15 UTC
    And their whole thing about gearing Marauders for PVP is poor anyway.

    I can PVP fit my Golem. Its actually pretty easy.

    Highs: 4x Torpedo Launcher (use faction ammo), 3x Medium Energy Neut
    Meds: 2x Medium Shield Boosters, 2x Invuln field, 2x Target Painter 1x 100MN MWD (Can swap a paint for a Heavy Capacitor booster if necessary)
    Lows: (either) 4x Ballistic Control, or 3x Ballistic Control, and 1x Damage Control
    Rigs: 1x Semiconductor Memory Cell, 1x Rigor Rig
    Drones: 10x Hornet EC-300, 5x Acrolytes.

    Its not too expensive, and packs a punch, especially with Crystal implants jacked in. I've used it in PVP wardecs all the time, and even the most seasoned Vindicator has a hard time dealing with it without some RR.

    So they saying that Marauders don't apply to PVP is untrue, just people choose to use other ships for PVP because they are more designed for it. Marauders are supposed to be the pinnacle of PVE, ISK generation. Doing any of the current ideas just gimps any ISK generation, and mission runners and ratters alike will just go back to T3 cruisers.

    Original Suggestions: http://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3556070#post3556070
    Helgur
    The State
    #3978 - 2013-09-23 02:46:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Helgur
    NiteNinja wrote:

    I can PVP fit my Golem. Its actually pretty easy


    It's rather apparent that you can't.

    No point on a pvp ship and godawful amarr drones which every pvper worth his salt knows are useless. Just to mention a few. Terrible
    Joe Risalo
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #3979 - 2013-09-23 02:55:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Joe Risalo
    Ya know, after playing around with golem fits for a while, the one thing that I can say the golem could use is an extra mid slot.
    Especially if we're getting a mjd bonus.

    My opinion, drop it from 8 highs to 7 and up the mids from 7 to 8.
    This means that the golem can more easily fit TPs, as it's the only bs that needs a support fire mod against approaching targets.
    The other ships can hit pretty well against approaching npcs due to not needing much tracking.

    However, the same could be said for the other marauders as well.
    Remove the 8th high and give them an extra mid or low, depending on which is better balanced.
    When in pve this also means choosing between a salvager and bastion, and in pvp it means choosing between more utility and bastion.

    This would be extremely good for the Golem at least...
    Jasper Blanch
    School of Applied Knowledge
    Caldari State
    #3980 - 2013-09-23 06:01:25 UTC
    I think that there have been some really interesting ideas proposed and I suspect at least a few of them are being vetted for next proposal and I'm interested to hear what CCP has to say about some of them. While I understand that it is a difficult job to balance the game, especially something as high SP as marauders, since it's been a couple of weeks, some real feedback would be appreciated at this point.

    Barring that, even an acknowledgement of the community input - so much as "we're workign on it, please be patient" - would be appreciated at this point.

    Thanks for all your hard work, CCP et al. I think we'd all like to hear from you.