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Joe Risalo

State War Academy

Caldari State

Likes received: 1,261

#3861 - 2013-09-19 13:38:02 UTC

Xequecal wrote:

Cassius Invictus wrote:

Isinero wrote:

if there will be balanced ressists it would be much much much better. But I dont think that they will introduce anything like that.

So I am happy with at least T2 ressist which I get instead of 37,5 % repair amount :-) (active tank is same, but I have also bonus to passive tanking which is nice)

Balanced T2 resists (similar to those of Sleipnir shields) would be actually the greatest fix to proposed marauders so far. Their PvE and PvP effectiveness would greatly increase.

What I want is to change the Paladin cap bonus to tracking bonus. Why Kronos and Vargur who already have good tracking receive it while paladin gets (not so useless) cap bonus and (totally useless) web bonus. I can live with that web if you insist on it but give me something in return.

Minmatar have the worst T2 resists. It would be good for PvE, terrible for PvP.

I seriously think everyone should get kin/therm as their T2 resists. EM and exp T2 resists are horrifically underpowered as these damage types are so rare.

I really think people should consider my suggestion.

My suggestion is balanced resistances on Marauders that would be unique to Marauders, and would fit their role in both pvp and pve design quite well.

Here's an example of what their resists are currently, and what they would be.

Golem
Current
0 EM + 50 Exp + 47.5 Kin + 40 Therm = 137.5
Proposed
33 EM + 33 Exp + 36 Kin + 35 Therm = 137

Paladin
Current
0 EM + 62.5 Exp + 47.5 Kin + 20 Therm = 130
Proposed
36 em + 30 exp + 29 kin + 35 therm = 130

Kronos
Current
0 em + 50 exp + 55 kin + 30 Therm = 135
Proposed
31 em + 32 exp + 37 kin + 35 Therm = 135

Vargur
70 em + 10 exp + 25 kin + 43.125 Therm = 148.125
Proposed
35 em + 40 exp + 36 kin + 37 therm = 148

If you notice, I made the resistances slightly focused towards the mission rats of those empires.

Now, obviously these aren't set numbers that have to be taken as they are, it's just a proposal.

Whether or not you combined t2 resists with this or not wouldn't matter because it's still awesome on each ship without t2 resists.

Also, is anyone else seeing the power in the Vargur???
Best speed
Smallest sig
Most resist points
Shield tank (great for missions)
best agility
damage selection
Instant damage application

What else am I missing?
Is it easy to say the Vargur is best in class?

Perhaps a little nerfage of the Vargur is called for.
Then we can rebalance all of them..

marVLs

Likes received: 764

#3862 - 2013-09-19 13:49:56 UTC | Edited by: marVLs

Joe Risalo wrote:

Also, is anyone else seeing the power in the Vargur???
Best speed
Smallest sig
Most resist points
Shield tank (great for missions)
best agility
damage selection
Instant damage application

What else am I missing?
Is it easy to say the Vargur is best in class?

Perhaps a little nerfage of the Vargur is called for.
Then we can rebalance all of them..

It's all for one big (most important thing in missions) flaw: bad DPS in most scenarios, You work in falloff, often at end of it so...

Ministry of War Amarr Empire 328
Bastion Arzi Ministry of War Amarr Empire Likes received: 328	#3863 - 2013-09-19 14:03:47 UTC Gosti Kahanid wrote: The weapon-timer is one Minute, not 15. Your´e confusing it with the PVP-Timer Doh. Thanks thats really excellent. @CCP great changes here +1 from me

Joe Risalo

State War Academy

Caldari State

Likes received: 1,261

#3864 - 2013-09-19 14:25:43 UTC

Bastion Arzi wrote:

Gosti Kahanid wrote:

The weapon-timer is one Minute, not 15. Your´e confusing it with the PVP-Timer

Doh. Thanks thats really excellent.

@CCP great changes here +1 from me

I have a question though...

Is the one minute lock out timer from the time you hit bastion, or from the time you come out of bastion..

If it's when you hit it, then it doesn't matter, but if it's when you come out... that sucks, cause you won't be able to dock/jump for one minute after you finish clearing a mission....

I mean, obviously if you're shooting other players it's from the time you stop firing... but that's not the point i'm getting at.

Ranger 1

Ranger Corp

Vae. Victis.

Likes received: 6,345

#3865 - 2013-09-19 15:24:20 UTC

Joe Risalo wrote:

Bastion Arzi wrote:

Gosti Kahanid wrote:

The weapon-timer is one Minute, not 15. Your´e confusing it with the PVP-Timer

Doh. Thanks thats really excellent.

@CCP great changes here +1 from me

By the time you get anywhere from a mission site your time will be just about done, just like it is now. It's simply a weapons timer, the same as you activate now when you do pretty much anything. It's just counting the Bastion Module like it would a weapon.

It's simply to keep you from entering Bastion Mode outside a station or next to a gate, having an uber tank, and then shutting it down and docking/jumping immediately afterwards. Otherwise people would shoot in those positions as long as they felt wise, then stop firing (still in Bastion Mode and uber tanking) until their weapons timer ran out. It would have made station games especially more of a pain than they currently are.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Aralez

Brutor Tribe

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 50

#3866 - 2013-09-19 16:07:43 UTC

CCP Ytterbium wrote:

Time for another update.

We discussed the Marauder situation further and came with the following changes:

Shield, armor and hull 30% resistance boosts have been removed on the Bastion Module - instead, all Marauders will now get proper tech2 resists. This will allow Marauders to have better RR use outside Bastion and reduce overall tanking effectiveness inside the mode.

We have removed all tanking bonuses on the Marauders hulls (Armor Repairer amount on the Paladin and Kronos, Shield Boost amount on the Golem and Vargur). Instead, we are giving them 7.5% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level. This will not only help reducing their tanking effectiveness, be more in theme with the ship role itself and help anyone using them with short range weapons. We are not giving them a full 10% per level back as this would be extremely powerful in conjunction with the other bonuses / Bastion. We are going to leave the full 10% web strength amount on the Serpentis ships for now and see how things evolve with time.

Also, we are removing the mass penalty on the Bastion mode. Tests have shown you can't really turn when it's active anyway, and we don't want to have players abuse that to collapse wormholes.

I will change the OP to match the changes.

you just killed mauraders, Vargur was my favorite ship in the game now without its tanking bonus's its worthless! your creativity is gone as was shown with dust. I have little reason to start playing agian when the winter expansion comes out. think its time to just let my accounts die and spend my time else where..

Bastion Arzi

Ministry of War

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 328

#3867 - 2013-09-19 16:13:33 UTC

Aralez wrote:

T2 resists dude!

Also dont forget that when in bastion mode your rep amount is doubled. I think that along with the old shield rep bonus would have made the vargur a little over the top.

Then theres always a crystal set as well.

I think it will be a good ship just wait and see...


Aralez Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic Likes received: 50	#3868 - 2013-09-19 16:17:52 UTC 1 my vaurgur has 2.3k omni tank right now! double if i go into o **** mode and have to use the second asb. now with the gen implant nerf and the 7.5 boost per lvl gone i might as well start sellin my vargurs off. when youve spent the time for mauraders V thats the worst nerf ever.


Bastion Arzi Ministry of War Amarr Empire Likes received: 328	#3869 - 2013-09-19 16:30:07 UTC not sure if im doing this right but i think your losing a 37.5% shield rep bonus for a 100% shield rep bonus... fair enough u can only rep that much for a minute at a time but still. was the cooldown of the bastion module mentioned in the original dev post?

Barrogh Habalu

Imperial Shipment

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 1,144

#3870 - 2013-09-19 16:35:05 UTC

Bastion Arzi wrote:

not sure if im doing this right but i think your losing a 37.5% shield rep bonus for a 100% shield rep bonus... fair enough u can only rep that much for a minute at a time but still.

was the cooldown of the bastion module mentioned in the original dev post?

I don't think there's a CD. It's pretty much about trading off mobility for another bonuses...

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become

Aralez

Brutor Tribe

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 50

#3871 - 2013-09-19 16:35:15 UTC

Bastion Arzi wrote:

Aralez wrote:

Your prob right, and i'll have to wait till pyfa or eve fit has the stats so i can see what I could do with it , but i think people would have been happy with just the t2 resists, bastion module was an awesome idea but the amount of things the have to nerf/change to make it less op is not worth the change in my opinion.

Lloyd Roses

Artificial Memories

Likes received: 1,356

#3872 - 2013-09-19 17:43:20 UTC

Aralez wrote:

my vaurgur has 2.3k omni tank right now! double if i go into o **** mode and have to use the second asb. now with the gen implant nerf and the 7.5 boost per lvl gone i might as well start sellin my vargurs off. when youve spent the time for mauraders V thats the worst nerf ever.

That's a little like a customer crying over a new edition of a car now featuring a V6 with 400hp instead of a V8 with 300hp. Dude, where the two cylinders went!

Mason Drake

SGK Inc

Likes received: 6

#3873 - 2013-09-19 17:49:51 UTC | Edited by: Mason Drake

Lloyd Roses wrote:

Aralez wrote:

That's a little like a customer crying over a new edition of a car now featuring a V6 with 400hp instead of a V8 with 300hp. Dude, where the two cylinders went!

Some people just prefer 2 more cylinders, since you get better/more torque in relation to the horsepower with V8s than V6s.

Nexumis

State War Academy

Caldari State

Likes received: 0

#3874 - 2013-09-19 17:54:18 UTC

"In regular mode, they work approximately on the same fashion as on TQ, but are capable of using Micro Jump Drive at a faster rate than usual to quickly relocate on the battlefield."

No they wont, you are taking away the rep bonus which means to have a better tank, a player would be forced to use this bastion module. Also honestly you are making these ships biased towards pve....your making the hulls immobile in bastion mode but giving them a web bonus, this will only be realistically used in pve. Since you will be rooted in place, any ship could out run you because your immobile. Did you guys make dreadnoughts first then the siege module? or did you release the ship in conjunction with the module? When you guys made the vagabond, you exchanged the speed bonus with the rep bonus, but you gave the hull a speed buff so it could be used the same way. You should do that with marauders or dont change them at all. These ships tank fine now, they dont need more of that, but if you want people to use this bastion module i would suggest a damage buff. Put the rep bonuses back as they were and give all the hulls a bonus to webs as you did with the mjd.


Barrogh Habalu Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire Likes received: 1,144	#3875 - 2013-09-19 19:10:20 UTC So I've realized that hulls in EVE actually can have unique active abilities after all (like, jump drives and the like). Just saying... Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become

Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 4
Lem Comrad Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic Likes received: 4	#3876 - 2013-09-19 19:21:53 UTC 1 What sens from bastion in damage? Right,no sens. If i can make missions more quickly at pirate BS,marauders still usless. More tank there,where it's not need. GIVE US MORE DPS!!!!

Barrogh Habalu

Imperial Shipment

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 1,144

#3877 - 2013-09-19 19:26:53 UTC | Edited by: Barrogh Habalu

Lem Comrad wrote:

What sens from bastion in damage? Right,no sens.
If i can make missions more quickly at pirate BS,marauders still usless.
More tank there,where it's not need.
GIVE US MORE DPS!!!!

Better application = more actual DPS.
More in-built tank = more mods for damage and damage projection... You spoiled shield-doer! Lol

Actually, scratch that. Shield ships' applied DPS still benefits from in-built tank if it is needed. Just not in PvE scenario where mid slots are abundant on most ships.

P.S. No offence meant.

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become

Mournful Conciousness

Federal Navy Academy

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 901

#3878 - 2013-09-19 19:29:33 UTC

I think people forget that in most pve, at least half the money is in the salvage. In wormholes, it's all in the salvage.

Being able to salvage at the same time as shoot surely means more in terms of isk/hr than a few hundred dps?

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".

Joe Risalo

State War Academy

Caldari State

Likes received: 1,261

#3879 - 2013-09-19 19:46:21 UTC

Mournful Conciousness wrote:

Naa, you can make more money burning targets down quickly with a strong bs and coming back with a noctis
than you could using a marauder.

Remember, 48km tractor range isn't near as far as you can shoot with these ships.
So you gotta slow boat to those wrecks.
Not to mention you have no salvage bonus.

So just focus on DPS, then come back and clean with the noctis...
This is even more true in WHs where you probably don't have to jump through gates to get back to your noctis.

House of Musashi Stay Feral 806
M1k3y Koontz House of Musashi Stay Feral Likes received: 806	#3880 - 2013-09-19 20:00:14 UTC Almost 200 pages, whats the record for a threadnought? How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.