These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

Player owned insurance companies
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Horus V
The Destined
#1 - 2013-09-17 16:23:41 UTC
This idea is about enabling corporations to have a feature build in so that members of that corporation or even people from outside would have option to insure their ship. The NPC insurance is a joke and makes no sense.

How this feature works:
- Corp has a separate wallet division where ceo or director (special role) can transfer isk to (and from)
- Amount of isk available would be hidden to the rest of eve but if there is not enough isk for payouts insurance would have a red indicator when someone is trying to buy another.
- There is no way to use or transfer the isk from that division. It means that it can only be used for insurance payouts. Once someone buys insurance the exact amount he ordered is reserved from that wallet division and it cannot be used unless the user stops paying the weekly/monthly amounts required or the insurance period has finished. It makes scamming very hard.
- Ceo or director decides about %, some terms and conditions such as duration of the policy and how they are going to operate and use insurance. Some corporations may use it only for members or provide the service for Alliance, others will use it in public advertising and creating websites, searching for sponsors ect ect. Also the weekly/monthly amounts (bills) and when the insurance actually will guarantee you a full reimbursement. User/costumer will have to look carefully and read everything in the terms and conditions section otherwise he would just loose ship in the first day and gain nothing from insurance or just a little % from what he already payed to that company.
- You could insure your capital and faction ships. Some companies would like to have an interview first and quick check of your kb to see if you eligible for special offers :)
- Automatic payouts once ship is lost. Amount depends on the contract type, duration of the contract and amount of isk already payed for the policy.
* Second idea is "life insurance": same as above but it would work with jump clones. It means you could insure all your clones just like ships...The feature could also be used to insure fittings and cargo.

V
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#2 - 2013-09-17 16:33:03 UTC
I'm not good at finding loopholes in ideas like this one so I will let others do that. For now +1 for ya for taking one more thing out of NPCs hands and giving it to players.

Invalid signature format
Dr0000 Maulerant
Union Nanide and Tooling
#3 - 2013-09-17 16:42:07 UTC
This would be a nice feature, however you would need-

1) no automatic payments, use lossmails & adjusters to curtail fraud.

2) the use of your insurance money is what makes insurance companies profitable, you could not lock away the total payout value and expect a company to stay in business.


Tell me again about how every playstyle you dont engage in "doesn't require any effort" and everyone who does it needs to die in a fire. Be sure to mention about how you tried it once but it was too easy/boring/ethnic-homophobic slur. 
Horus V
The Destined
#4 - 2013-09-17 16:56:51 UTC
Dr0000 Maulerant wrote:
This would be a nice feature, however you would need-

1) no automatic payments, use lossmails & adjusters to curtail fraud.

2) the use of your insurance money is what makes insurance companies profitable, you could not lock away the total payout value and expect a company to stay in business.




Yes this is just initial idea and most important is that player owned corp would adjust terms and conditions so as long as its a game feature with lots of options to play with would serve the community and even promote bravery in pvp.

V
supernova ranger
The End of Eternity
#5 - 2013-09-17 17:50:28 UTC
LOL

Insurance premiums would end up far too high to warrant insurance if you did ACTUAL risk assessments

And its not investments of that insurance makes money off of you, it's the denial of claims and having a large enough member base to see non-random distributions that you can predict
Horus V
The Destined
#6 - 2013-09-17 18:05:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Horus V
supernova ranger wrote:
LOL

Insurance premiums would end up far too high to warrant insurance if you did ACTUAL risk assessments

And its not investments of that insurance makes money off of you, it's the denial of claims and having a large enough member base to see non-random distributions that you can predict


Yes but remember that there is a chance of competition. Its a player driven economy and if you want your corp to be popular in Jita then please make your premiums as low as possible or you will get no costumers. Other corporations may even wardec you if your offers look too good and you are advertising in their systems.
Im not saying that it would always work better than npc insurance but at least it should be player owned thing and people would always want to make super offers and deals inside corporations and alliances to gain members and make life easier esspecially for combat division and miners.

V
Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-09-17 18:18:22 UTC
You want to remove the NPC insurance? Have fun never insuring a ship ever again, or getting scammed by fraudulent player "insurance" schemes.
Horus V
The Destined
#8 - 2013-09-17 18:36:25 UTC
Ganthrithor wrote:
You want to remove the NPC insurance? Have fun never insuring a ship ever again, or getting scammed by fraudulent player "insurance" schemes.


If its a game feature why would you allow someone to scam you? You can simply read the terms and conditions and pay only for insurance that is already in use for some time on the market. Mistakes will happen only if you dont pay attention and loose your ship too early, too late or in the wrong location.Yes you would be able to insure your ship for type of sec. you are flying in aswell. People who generally use only highsec would get better offers and people who belong to big alliances would benefit from their super deals/schemes/offers in nullsec ect ect.

As I said the isk is reserved for the payouts and you cannot use it until contract expires ect ect. This really is a safe feature

V
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#9 - 2013-09-17 19:27:28 UTC
OP... the current insurance system is a game mechanic designed to encourage people to PvP. Nothing more.

How did you Veterans start?
Horus V
The Destined
#10 - 2013-09-17 19:45:03 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
OP... the current insurance system is a game mechanic designed to encourage people to PvP. Nothing more.

It doesnt work and its not just my opinion. People get no isk for their faction ships and modules, people get no isk for their capital ships losses and their fitts, people get no isk for the implants and cargo they losse, "people get no profits because NPC corps gets all". As for now it only encurages people to use cheap stuff and keep the faction shiny modules and ships for later or sell it to traders.

V
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#11 - 2013-09-17 19:57:42 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Insurance rates for faction, Tech 2, and Tech 3 ships are crap BY DESIGN. Because...

- losing them is supposed to really hurt
- why would ever fly a Tech 1 ship ever again if you get back most of your money for a "superior ship."
- insurance rates are based upon mineral price... "special" ships have other factors beyond minerals that make them expensive.

As far as not getting full value insurance for your fits and everything... again... losing a ship is supposed to hurt. The purpose of insurance is to mitigate that pain a bit so you can get back into PvP faster.

How did you Veterans start?
supernova ranger
The End of Eternity
#12 - 2013-09-17 20:01:02 UTC
Here's a simple calculation...

A player insures his ship because he thinks he is going to die right? so 50-50 chance he does and initiates the claim...

assuming the ship is worth 10m, you should expect the player to pay at least 50% > 5m... now I was taught that 32 is the magic number where one can on average expect a population to start following a distribution

so the insurance company needs to insure 32 ppl (say at 10% profit) at 5.5m PER pvp engagement for their 32 10m ships
Horus V
The Destined
#13 - 2013-09-17 20:18:28 UTC
Guys it would work! Once its in the players hands they will figure it all out. Some people will make isk out of it and some will fail and bankrupt. Some will get super duper deals and offers and others will struggle. Alliances and corporations will use it as a recruitment tool and im sure many pvpers would really have more interest in alliances and corps with good offers.

V
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#14 - 2013-09-17 20:18:35 UTC
Think of a real life mechanic where the prospect of individual liability or criminal proceedings is a deterrent to fraud or scamming.

That mechanic won't work in EVE.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Horus V
The Destined
#15 - 2013-09-17 20:37:58 UTC
Ok so how about making it optional. People could still use NPC insurance unless there are better deals or the deal looks like a better one.

V
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#16 - 2013-09-17 20:46:26 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
No player insurance company would insure ANY PvP ship as PvPers fly into battle EXPECTING to lose their ships (they [sometimes] try not to, but they understand that it is a possibility). And the point of an insurance company is to pull in more money than it pays out... which is impossible in a universe where even petty salvagers carry weapons of mass destruction.

How did you Veterans start?
Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#17 - 2013-09-17 20:50:32 UTC
Horus V wrote:
Ganthrithor wrote:
You want to remove the NPC insurance? Have fun never insuring a ship ever again, or getting scammed by fraudulent player "insurance" schemes.


If its a game feature why would you allow someone to scam you? You can simply read the terms and conditions and pay only for insurance that is already in use for some time on the market. Mistakes will happen only if you dont pay attention and loose your ship too early, too late or in the wrong location.Yes you would be able to insure your ship for type of sec. you are flying in aswell. People who generally use only highsec would get better offers and people who belong to big alliances would benefit from their super deals/schemes/offers in nullsec ect ect.

As I said the isk is reserved for the payouts and you cannot use it until contract expires ect ect. This really is a safe feature


Players are already free to start their own "insurance companies." Why do you think it hasn't been done? Why do you think every "EVE Bank" has turned out to be a ponzi-scheme? There's no legal recourse in EVE, so these things will always turn out to be fraudulent.
Horus V
The Destined
#18 - 2013-09-17 21:05:53 UTC
Ganthrithor wrote:
Horus V wrote:
Ganthrithor wrote:
You want to remove the NPC insurance? Have fun never insuring a ship ever again, or getting scammed by fraudulent player "insurance" schemes.


If its a game feature why would you allow someone to scam you? You can simply read the terms and conditions and pay only for insurance that is already in use for some time on the market. Mistakes will happen only if you dont pay attention and loose your ship too early, too late or in the wrong location.Yes you would be able to insure your ship for type of sec. you are flying in aswell. People who generally use only highsec would get better offers and people who belong to big alliances would benefit from their super deals/schemes/offers in nullsec ect ect.

As I said the isk is reserved for the payouts and you cannot use it until contract expires ect ect. This really is a safe feature


Players are already free to start their own "insurance companies." Why do you think it hasn't been done? Why do you think every "EVE Bank" has turned out to be a ponzi-scheme? There's no legal recourse in EVE, so these things will always turn out to be fraudulent.

I disagree. Those banks was not an ingame feature just some kind of websites and deals between players. If we had it built ingame it would be much more reliable because game mechanics would not allow you to close bank or to use all of the isk.

V
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#19 - 2013-09-17 22:22:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Horus V wrote:
This idea is about enabling corporations to have a feature build in so that members of that corporation or even people from outside would have option to insure their ship. The NPC insurance is a joke and makes no sense.

How this feature works:
- Corp has a separate wallet division where ceo or director (special role) can transfer isk to (and from)
- Amount of isk available would be hidden to the rest of eve but if there is not enough isk for payouts insurance would have a red indicator when someone is trying to buy another.
- There is no way to use or transfer the isk from that division. It means that it can only be used for insurance payouts. Once someone buys insurance the exact amount he ordered is reserved from that wallet division and it cannot be used unless the user stops paying the weekly/monthly amounts required or the insurance period has finished. It makes scamming very hard.
- Ceo or director decides about %, some terms and conditions such as duration of the policy and how they are going to operate and use insurance. Some corporations may use it only for members or provide the service for Alliance, others will use it in public advertising and creating websites, searching for sponsors ect ect. Also the weekly/monthly amounts (bills) and when the insurance actually will guarantee you a full reimbursement. User/costumer will have to look carefully and read everything in the terms and conditions section otherwise he would just loose ship in the first day and gain nothing from insurance or just a little % from what he already payed to that company.
- You could insure your capital and faction ships. Some companies would like to have an interview first and quick check of your kb to see if you eligible for special offers :)
- Automatic payouts once ship is lost. Amount depends on the contract type, duration of the contract and amount of isk already payed for the policy.
* Second idea is "life insurance": same as above but it would work with jump clones. It means you could insure all your clones just like ships...The feature could also be used to insure fittings and cargo.



Not enough data. For insurance to work you'd have to, ideally balance the payouts with the premiums and you'd need a deductable (moral hazard). You'd also have to find a way to deal with adverse selection as well. Also, there is the notion of making money off of premiums and investments vs. claims. Ultimately claims and premiums will equal out, but over the short run you'd want more in premiums so you can generate investment income. All of this requires the use of statistics and probability theory--i.e. you'd have to become an actuary.

Lastly, I doubt you'd find many people who want to play a space version of a space actuary, insurance adjuster, insurance underwriter, etc.

Oh, not to mention the scamming potential. If you work hard and get a sizeable amount in premiums piled up in that account, log in and set pay out %s to zero. Or, approve a policy on your own ship that is way out of whack and get it blown up, empty out the account holding surplus premiums. Or create and alt.

Insurance is a HEAVILY regulated industry IRL. There are zero regulations and no legal system in game.

Sorry, no...it wont happen.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Horus V
The Destined
#20 - 2013-09-17 23:33:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Horus V
You misunderstood the whole idea. It might be my english.
You can not simply change % because its a game feature unless you hack the game. The % stays the same to the end of your contract. You may change it later in offers but you might loose your costumers. You can't create an alt or any of that stuff because the insurance payouts are in separate special wallet division in the corp that was used to create the contract. If you meant to create an alt and take advantage of your own made policy then payouts are your own isk.

The regulations are not needed because it would be a feature. Even if you close the corp and go bankrupt that wallet division would only just automatically transfer all the isk to the costumers. System would work perfectly.

V
12Next page