EVE General Discussion

Ok I will say it even though I anticipate people will disagree.

If the destroyer changes go through and they are still allowed in minor plexes they will likely be the only ships used in those plexes. I suppose the armor tanked double web/disruptor hookbill might work as well but other than that it will be all thrashers and catalysts.

So because I like think that would be horribly boring I will say that if the destroyer changes go through as indicated I hope they are not allowed in minor plexes.

Yeah I agree with letting t2 frigs into plexes. But until they get a boost I'm not sure they would even be able to compete with boosted destroyers.

No. This will just ruin things. If you take sov, everyone will be flying your ships (offensive or defensive) and when you lose it the other race's ships will be used. This will REMOVE variation to the pvp...

Never experienced ECM abuse as a major problem while plexing to be honest, a lot worse in "open space" fights but that is the Eve norm I reckon.

Flying ones racial ships does zero for RP, not even a little bit .. in PIE we use it as a way to complete the picture of slightly rabid imperialists/purists but in itself it has no impact on the RP.

The lack of variation is mainly due to the really crappy balance post-projectile buff .. everything tilted towards auto/arty hulls in a big way .. doubly so in plexes where an artillery gang is impossible to defeat if they "hold" the plex as ships are volleyed as they arrive on the warp-in.
A revision of the acceleration gate mechanic should be part of a plex revamp, to remove the single entry point that so heavily favours a defender. The brute force solution would be to have 4 gates instead of one, each coming out at different directions/ranges to timer whereas the refined approach would be to have something like the tournament system with pre-entry beacons so arrivals have control over their entry point (no idea how that can be done, just putting it out there)

I have had a drake die a slow death to 2 assault frigates while being permajammed by a griffin. I have been permajammed a few other times. Its hard to call this "abuse" since when you look at the actual mechanics of ecm it is simply very powerful especially against smaller sized groups. And basically its lethal against solo pvpers.

It hasn't happened to me that often but that is because now I just warp out of plex if I see any ecm ships on a shorter scan. I will say I have left many fights due to ecm being there. I think they should make plexing so that they reduce people having to warp off as much as possible. ECM boats are a always a good reason to for a solo or small gang pvper to avoid a fight.


I agree I don't see too too much ecm in plexes but no one really cares about winning them now. I think if people all of a sudden start caring ecm ships will be very very popular. They are balanced in for larger fleet fights but they are not balanced for solo or small gang warfare.

I'm not in favor of a heavy handed approach about it, but I think this would be a nice subtle way to address it.


What you say about others flying all minmatar is sort of what I mean about adding some variety. This would give some slight advantage to the "also ran" races' ships in 3/4s of the plexes.

As far as rp I'm not claiming allot here but I do think its pretty neat to see the fw pilots flying their faction type ships. This would give them some reason to do that.

If they make the proposed chages to destroyers minor plexes will be all thrashers and catalysts. Pirate frigates won't compete. If they make the proposed changes to destroyers destroyers should not be allowed in minors.



I don't think ccp needs to do anything to the actual mechanic of how plexes are captured. I am fine with orbitting a button so long as the other side is notified i am there. I would be against most of the pve activities that seemed intended to fill the time such as forcing us to shoot all the npcs or bunkers. I'm also not in favor of requiring us to fit some decrypter mod on our ships so we can hack something while we wait.

Orbiting the button means you have to be in a certain range of it so it is a good mechanism for pvp - there is no need to change that at all, IMO.

Caerain - I updated the blurb about plexing to better reflect the views of the greater FW community - upon reviewing the relevant threads most are split on how to fix the plex situation, roughly half favor beefing up or balancing the NPC difficulty, adjusting the AI to avoid speedtanking, others like yourself favor elimination of PVE entirely.

Either way, the mechanics inside the plex are clearly something that needs attention, everyone agrees on that.

I think the vast majority of cearains ideas are ********, why you even read his posts still is beyond me.

Hans I appreciate what your trying to do here. But when you say:

"This is a list of issues, not a list of solutions. I think we all agree on the issues - so let this be the concrete message that gets sent, even if we don't all agree on how it should be fixed. "

I have to say that I don't agree that either of the above is an issue that needs to be fixed. I think your op comes the closest to a consensus so I gave it a like - me and about 20 others. Hell it seems there are over 6xs as many people who want ccp to start working on incarna again as people who agree this is what needs to be fixed in fw.

I'm just saying there are very few of us on these boards that agree on much when it comes to fw.

Not only do we have people who think about the mechanics and come up with different ideas about what should be fixed. But we have players who seem more concerned about who posted the idea than the idea itself. Yes some people never really grow out of that junior high mentality.

I think you and others have tried to get the fw community behind certain ideas but people just disagree. This is ok. I hope ccp reads what people suggested and more importantly, why they suggsted it, but ultimately CCP will just have to sort this out themselves. There is no clear strong consensus on anything that will really *fix* fw. The only issue we truly all agree on is that fw is broken.

Does anyone know what changes to fw are on sisi?

Thanks Caerain - and I should clarify that my goal at this point is just to collate, condense, and clarify the wealth of suggestions and feedback that have been shared over several years of discussion. Thats why I stripped away my original list, which has a couple of things I personally wanted to see, in favor of the most popular discussion points made by the community in general. I could care less whether FW is fixed to my liking at this point, I just want to see progress as soon as possible and am trying to work with the CSM to give them what they've asked for going into the summit.

The five points each under "little fixes" and "big ideas" are among the most repeated suggestions for improvement that have been shared, though obviously there will still be some individuals that don't feel those are issues, even amongst the most vocal on the forums. Everyone's feedback here is valuable though, so definitely keep sharing your thoughts. It's impossible to obtain a 100% consensus on any given talking point, but that doesn't mean there aren't some common themes amongst the fix suggestions. NPC issues in plexes / missions are one of the oldest items on the to-do list, and even had a CSM resolution backing it historically, so I've included it on the list for now.

I refuse to be swayed by the idea that we are an obscure minority, and that Incarna somehow trumps FW in terms of fan popularity. I really think that most players have simply given up speaking up based on CCP's history of ignoring the issue, and that there is a huge base of players like Kinis Deren here that would welcome a healthy, functioning, FW system in lowsec. The past CSM resolutions were all passed because of huge player support for FW fixes, back when you could vote in support of proposals. Eventually the situation got so bad that the proposals were no longer about what to fix, but about the lack of attention and more importantly total lack of communication with players about FW.

I think now, its not a minority of players who want FW fixed, its a minority of players who are willing to fight for such fixes. And when we give up, that is the moment it really will become an abandoned feature.