Player Features and Ideas Discussion

OK butchering my comments to make me look silly is one thing, but anyone who cares to scroll up will know the guts of my posts,

saying an AFK ship is nothing to fear... scroll up, YES the pose a threat on that is invulnerable.

looked at you kill board... not applicable, this is just my alt account, I don't dare post on my main, don't think you are better then me because of time played.

a cloaked ship CANT be countered... that's a FACT, I know how facts annoy you.

Gettin real tired of your deliberate lies and misrepresentations, buddy.

We have repeatedly said we don't just want easy kills, only that uncertainty and risk must be preserved. Your constant attempts to smear us is pathetic.

As for the reason cloaking and cynos is becoming the norm, it is not because it can't be countered it is because it has become a NECESSITY due to how safe local makes nullsec.

Local makes things too safe, and the only way to work around that is to already be in system and play the waiting game.

Cloaked ships cannot shoot you or do anything, the second they can they become not cloaked and you can shoot them back.

Every post you make is incredibly dishonest and filled with smearing. It really highlights your true motivations, and complete lack of argument

sick of this waaaaaa.... local makes it to hard, sure I think local should be nerfed.... but not in Sov space... we pay for it.

It's not about maintaining uncertainty. You want to be able to take a solo cloaker into null and completely disrupt operation while you have your tea. The different in effor between a cloaker and the sov holders is unreasonable. Cloakers SHOULD have to put in more effort. Currently they put in WAY less. You want to maintain that, because it makes it easier for you.

The reason it's becoming the norm is because it's easy and low risk to perform. It's by no mean a necessity. I still see successful pirates coming through in pirate faction cruiser gangs. And local has ALWAYS been about, and people have been fighting since the beginning of EVE. You can;t now say that suddenly local is making it too hard for uncloaked pirates, that's nonsense. You've simply discovered it's easier to travel in a cloaky, sit AFK until people let their guard down, then blops your mates in. So that's what you do.

They can however undetectably gather full intel on fleet composition and locations, so you can set up for an easy drop. Cloakers also control the whole fight, since they decide when and where it happens, as well as what state you are in. If we knew all cloakers were ATK, we would at least be able to prepare a defense. Preparing a defense for an AFK player is a massive time waste, which is why you rely on AFK cloakers to numb your opponents.

So because I do not like pvp so much I should go to high sec. How about you stop playing the game because you do not like industrialist please?

Thats how much sense you comment makes and thats also why I hate people like you most of the time.

And this is featured & ideas isn't it? So why cannot I give my idea even if it messes up your easy game play? My idea might not be perfect and I admit that I have started to just say break cloaks just because people like you. It just easier for me and I don't need to think about it but if it come to a point that CCP would ask me that what should we do I would not present an idea that would break cloaks completely but something along the line what Nikk had in mind involving local and stuff.

And thats my opinion on this and you pro cloaking comments make me sick I'm affraid and you unwillingness to see any other way even tough you do support nikk's idea abit but in the I have the feeling that you would still keep your own play style if it would come to the point where you could make up the decision. And thats how I see you presenting your self here.

And Lucas Kell yes I get your point from the idea you had and I was thinking it that if an industrial would get trapped in a system then he would decloak eventualy so it does effect everyone in the end.

Too much quetes here
Oh well it was somewhere there

I got it. Perfect solution. Make all ships free but double the cost the skill books to fly them and increase the time needed to learn them. So once you can fly a ship, you can always have one. MIght still have to build it and they arent just laying around but if you want PVP and more people willing to PVP, maybe we should balance the playing field in this way.

I would take my solo carrier against your black ops fleet and see how many i could kill if I knew I would get another ship for free

See problem solved. No change to local or cloaks.

No, it is about maintaining uncertainty and risk. I cannot disrupt operations while I am cloaked or afk, it is literally not possible. If you see a name in local and decide "I dont know what level of risk this poses, therefore I will dock up and stop doing things" then that is a choice you made. I didn't disrupt anything, you made a decision based on an uncertainty. You could have also decided to continue doing what you were doing, or alter what you were doing slightly in order to be more safe (not minmaxed pve fits, or fly with a group, etc). You made your choice, you live with it. Demanding that all uncertainty and risk be removed because you refuse to make any other choice is stupid.

And the reason prolonged cloaking happens is because it is the only chance we have to catch unwilling targets. That's the truth, and your petulant denials mean nothing. It is nothing to do with the risk or effort on our part, it is because it is a necessity. Also, how can you claim it is low risk and effort when we have to spend days and days on end for the mere chance that someone will make a mistake? It is incredibly dishonest to say it is "easy" and "low risk" when it is a DESPERATE attempt to circumvent a massively overpowered tool (local) causing residents to have an incredible amount of safety.




Please tell me what other recourse we have to catch unwilling residents of a system. If I jump into local, an unwilling resident, if he's paying attention, hits the warp button before the pretty gate animation has even finished on my end. By the time it has, he's in warp to a station or pos. What other options do I have, other than being in system all the time and waiting for him to get sick and risk it? You can't just say I'm wrong and not back up your statements. Lets put it this way, do you think anyone likes sitting doing nothing for hours on end just for the tiny chance of catching someone? You claim it's not the only way, so tell us what the other ways are. We'd jump at the chance for other ways which aren't as boring, tedious and with such a tiny pay-off rate. Go on, tell us.



That's not how it's supposed to work. It's a misuse of a chat channel as an intel channel, one that is infallible and instant, and no matter how much effort I put in I can't do anything to counter that tool. You are not supposed to have nearly perfect safety in nullsec, but you do as a result of an ancient chat mechanic being misused. To claim that it is supposed to grant you perfect safety is so pants-on-head idiotic I can barely comprehend it. Local is not supposed to allow you to evade all risk with near perfect chances.



Why are you targeting only cloakers with this attitude? I don't see you demanding that anyone who goes AFK in a pos shield or station be ejected. Why is it ok for - as you say - "your PC" to do the waiting if you're in a station or pos, but not if you're a cloaker? Why do you think you're entitled to know what the pilot behind the keyboard is doing?

I'll tell you why: Because you're being dishonest. This isn't about people being afk, this is about uncertainty and risk. Someone sitting cloaked for a long time is an uncertainty - you don't know if they're active or not - and therefore the level of risk is higher than if you were told outright that they were a) not in system or b) not active. You want risk removed for yourself. Admit it. We've danced around the issues so long, and everything you say screams "remove risk remove risk i want my own personal 100% safe space farm".

Truly I feel grateful that so many are discussing this topic.

To Lucas Kell: I was short, as others observed, but you did ask for it in a previous entry, telling me to **** off.
If you can maintain civility and continue without the fireworks, so can I. Your call.
Regardless, however, I was honest, and the point I was making is not diminished by these circumstances.

You were implying that effort towards defense is bad for game play in null, or should otherwise not be needed, in that you named a few valid tactics to secure a system as being far too much effort for serious consideration.


Vas Eldryn, you made a couple of statements, and I need to gut them before they become considered established points.
They are, to be more than kind, mislead at best...



Item 1:
Many things cannot be countered. Pretending this is the only thing in the game where that has meaning is disingenuous.
We should be able to force eject people from outposts, especially ones owned by our alliances where they could not even dock if they were to try at the current time. A POS with reinforced shields is another.
BOTH exist to further game play, despite the unrealistic nature they display to everyone.
Many players would be VERY happy to have cloaked vessels able to be hunted, but it is not balanced to do this if they are also reported for presence with no effort. Local does this, along with a few other free intel broken items.
Make it balanced, and it will happen.

As to having no counter, noone who ever played in a wormhole can take this statement seriously. Cloaked vessels should always be expected, uncloaked vessels should always be expected, local telling you there are none is actually spoiling you with safety that you should NEVER expect as a regular state of existence. It makes you forget what null really is.

Item 2:
You pay for the ability to install advantages, most notably system upgrades, I-Hubs, POS's, and Outposts. Local exists in every part of the game, and it's pilot roster every place except the wormhole systems.
Your security is, and always has been, your responsibility. Intel is useful only under circumstances that offer options based off of it's knowledge. Knowing things for no effort, is also knowing them for no cost.
Quite literally and specifically, neither you, nor any person or group, paid for this.

Well if he has just one module, why are you even worried?

My comment about bubbles, scouts, etc. wasn't how to protect yourself from a cloaked ship, but how to avoid being caught by anything but a cloaked ship. If you take those precautions you will never ever be caught unless The Gunslinger is right and you are bad at this game.

So how is that balanced?

Like I have been saying for many posts now. The current situation is not optimal, but it is balanced. It is not good game play, IMO, but it is balanced.

My preference is for new mechanics that include risk...for both sides (note that is balanced)...and where AFK cloaking goes the way of the dodo. Your objections and complaints are obviously self-serving, IMO.



Then you are complaining about active cloakers. No AFK pilot can do any of those things. Ever. Those can only be done by players who are active.