Player Features and Ideas Discussion

A target painter bonus, not useful on a missile ship? what are you smoking?

Mission runners can use any subcap in the game to do their thing. Marauders can be used in hisec. Where did you get the idea that they won't be able to use marauders anymore?



Well the whole premise of hisec is that it's not a sandbox. You can't do what you want and have restrictions at the same time, high security is all about restrictions. Which also makes it boring. No idea how sandox relates to marauders, but your fluffy strawman distracted me there for a moment.



This is partly correct. I've come to the conclusion that the biggest issue of null is that it's the only place hibears have ever heard of, and where they migrate when they get old. Wormholes and low get the talent, and nullseccers have to settle for ex-L4 runners. Luckily the guys are experienced dealing with the future nullbears, and will place them in renter alliances to produce rat ISK and fodder for F1 blobs.



Silly amounts of SP, ISK, Failfitclinic.com and detailed walk-through guides can substitute for player skill in simple tasks such as L4s, true.



Well this amusing. I mean even more amusing than the rest of your rant, which as a whole is very amusing. Did you know that Sleeper/Sansha AI is especially designed to promote team work, and there's a ton of guys enjoying it all the time?

The best thing about a thriving sandbox is that there's people shifting sand all the time. Those who fail to adapt, get buried under it.

So to recap:
First you give maruders PG revamp so they can fit long range turrets easier
Then you give them bonus to MJD so they can escape to sniping range easier
Then you give them module that boosts range directly.
And then you swap tank bonus for Web bonus that is useful by default only at 10km range?

What's the point? What's intended usefulness outside pvp? Frigate shooting? With newly fitted long range guns? That's what drones are for!

Either give marauders tank bonus back, or if you really need to nerf that, swap it for drone bonus, or painter / ecm / damp.

Does it seem schisophrenic or am I missing something?

Oh, I get it, the players actually using the damned thing shouldn't feel entitled to be able to enjoy or use it after it's been "iterated"...

The whole art of chessonline is to let the knights dictate how should a tower play, for the sake of the game, of course.

It wasn't just incursion runners. Anyone who could do maths could see the golem and vargur becoming idiotically powerful loltank baitships. And I don't mean in a good way. In a 40,000dps tank way!

There was no way it was going to fly, and rightly so.

Pretty much this. I didn't understand either until I started running the numbers for myself. I thought my spreadsheet was broken lol. Thus my signature.

Due to a number of factors, I've pumped 186 hours into Borderlands 2 in the last 2 weeks. It's a game I can play when extremely exhausted, and game death, unlike in EvE, is a lot less punishing.

Anyway, as far as PvE, my brain has been comparing combats between EVE and BL2, and what comes out is that, regardless of how interesting you make the Marauder hulls, PvE will still be mind numbingly dull. I know, I used to run L4's in a badly fitted and skilled Drake, often taking hours in missions like Pirate Scarlet or Angels Extravaganza, barely breaking tank on the named battleships, only possible at all because of advanced knowledge of missions, from running them over and over.

The PvE missions - ALL missions - are too rigidly scripted. For most, It's no different then sitting on a rooftop sniping at people coming out of houses, or if you're in close, having enough DPS to just shotgun them in the face as they open the door. There is quite a number of really cool ones, but I only get those rarely, and again, it wears off after the 10th time.

Unless the PvE enviroment is made more dynamic, and starts acting more in a Borderland 2 way with Badasses and Loot Midgets - well, NOT that, I think you know what I mean, our current equivalent would be special ships unexpectedly popping in, or unexpected reinforcements appearing, or rail ships popping up far away instead of a close by spawn, etc etc - things like Bastion will be, well, dull anyway.

If DEEP space was actually teeming with weird arsed PvE situations, then jumping into "a ship designed for deep deployment in hostile space" would make perfect sense, but what we are doing is shooting chickens in a shed, we are running a predictable, scripted event using optimal resources in order to maximize an income we use for EVE core gameplay, ie, PvP.

Marauders needs to be looked at AFTER PvE improvements and THEN changed AGAIN every time the PvE environment is improved. Right now it will be just changes "cause everything else is also being changed".

Just my opinion, of course.

"it's relatively easy to take down this one ship with a half decently set up fleet..." means one thing and one thing alone - this one ship is a game-breaking abomination that will ultimately cause players to flee in droves.

The players getting pwned by this one ship will get bored of never winning, and for the pilot of the ship, pvp will become as mind-numbingly dull as PVE - at which point, unless he himself is mind-numbingly dull, he will leave the game for something better.

This is why version 1 marauders could not be allowed to happen, and why the bastion module is going to be extremely difficult for CCP to balance.

For local tankers, there is a very fine line between 'can survive for more than a few seconds when faced with multiple enemies' and 'horribly, game-breakingly overpowered'.

This problem will never go away because of the way that local damage mitigation [does not] scale with the number of enemies.

As for the capacitor issue - you just don't need cap. A dual XL-ASB is all you need. You can even fit cargohold rigs and mods to create an irritatingly large supply of cap boosters to feed them.

This of course does not affect the armour ships, since they have to trade cargohold for both rep amount and resitances.

If CCP want marauders to work, step 1 is *very simple*:

* Limit ASBs to 1 per ship

This actually solves more problems than just marauders.

I cannot fathom why they have not done this. It's just so obvious.

By the end of all this "NUMBERS!one!one!!!one" talk, and all this whining, they are just going to nerf it into oblivion to satisfy all the parties.

AMEN