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Will there ever be a change to EVE's piloting mechanics?

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Lyttle Spacedust
Doomheim
#21 - 2013-09-11 04:26:16 UTC
I think some of you may have misunderstood my intention.

I am not asking for joystick jerking, super fast dogfighting ability.

I would just like to see some enhancment aside from "double clicking" to get your ship going where you want it to go.

Lets face it..double clicking is lame.
Dr0000 Maulerant
Union Nanide and Tooling
#22 - 2013-09-11 04:40:03 UTC
You could completely eliminate discrepancies during evasive action simply by creating tweens when a player does something that makes that data relevant-

*24:55.32.19 Player activates (X offensive module), X/Y/Z, heading, 200km/s*

Delay it by a few ticks to make sure no defensive modules were running on the other client and they weren't doing some crazy transverse-altering acrobatics then apply the damage. I'm fairly certain the server already does this.

So if there is any reason it cant be done it's probably because it'd be a significant engine re-write.

Tell me again about how every playstyle you dont engage in "doesn't require any effort" and everyone who does it needs to die in a fire. Be sure to mention about how you tried it once but it was too easy/boring/ethnic-homophobic slur. 
Maaaaowm Ogeko
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#23 - 2013-09-11 05:30:17 UTC
Lyttle Spacedust wrote:
I think some of you may have misunderstood my intention.

I am not asking for joystick jerking, super fast dogfighting ability.

I would just like to see some enhancment aside from "double clicking" to get your ship going where you want it to go.


Great! Suggestions?

Quote:
Lets face it..double clicking is lame.


Judging from your first post, you weren't aware that piloting by double-clicking was possible until now. The double-clicking may be dated and it may be clunky; however, if you practice doing it, you can achieve very fine levels of control over your ship's movement. Like everything else, it all depends on how much work you want to put into it.
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#24 - 2013-09-11 05:38:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Shalua Rui
Hm... the only thing I could think of would be some form of course/coordinate plotting... but that would be pretty complex in an 3D environment. If anything, setting course and speed manually would be even more clunky then simple point to point movement... also, we'd need a fixed "bridge view" (1st person) then, or it would even more awkward.

Manual keyboard/mouse controls for pitching and geering... I dunno... would feel strange I guess... but it could be an alternative.

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
KuroVolt
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2013-09-11 09:55:26 UTC
Jim Era wrote:
we need dancing spaceships.



Jim Era wrote:
dancing spaceships.



Jim Era wrote:
dancing spaceships.



I need this now!

We could use dreadnaughts for it and call it Dance Dance Revelation!

BoBwins Law: As a discussion/war between two large nullsec entities grows longer, the probability of one comparing the other to BoB aproaches near certainty.
Prince Kobol
#26 - 2013-09-11 10:09:08 UTC
Ruskarn Andedare wrote:
Georgina Parmala wrote:
Turn camera, double click
Turn camera, double click
Turn camera, double click
Turn camera, double click

What more do you expect as a ship's captain than to point your finger and say "go that way". In a game that communicates with the server at 1 second intervals with thousands of people actively engaged in one big fight.


If you have a touchscreen you can fly by pointing - just touch where you want to go to (ok, double-touch but it's kinda cool)


I like being double touched :)
Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous
#27 - 2013-09-11 11:09:17 UTC
Lyttle Spacedust wrote:
First you need to have a target to turn to or move towards or orbit.

If you have no target, all you can do is just move in a straight line aimlessly.

So piloting in Eve is very target based.


NO

NO.

NO.

GET OUT. NOW.

and I WILL put a bounty on you in the next few days because you're stupid.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2013-09-11 11:32:06 UTC
GreenSeed wrote:
eve piloting is actually fantastic, people look at space sim games and want to fly their ships like that, but they never think of the incredibly dismal tactical and strategic play involved in "dogfighting".

and not only "solo" or small gang play would be negatively affected by the change in pace, can you imagine three thousand people dog fighting in a grid at 10% TiDi?

if anything eve needs a "que" system for commands, and a visual representation of what your ship will do. for example, clicking on an enemy ship and setting an orbit will create a circling arrow representing the orbit, and another arrow representing the "path into" the orbit. allowing us to alter the path by clicking and dragging as not to get blapped as we fly under the guns.

the same system could be used to create artificial orbits around "nothing" instead of dropping a jetcan... allowing much more control over our ships.

the result is the same we get now days with "manual" flying, but it becomes more intuitive for new pilots. lets face it, clicking in space, or doing a "look at" command and clicking where the enemy ship is flying towards is very clunky.

besides that, the system is perfect, you don't play as a pilot, you play as a captain.

Actually dogfighting is very complex and takes an enormous amount of skill. If you ever played Aces High or another flight sim and spent some times learning combat maneuvers. managing energy etc they're very complex, require a good understanding of physics and math.

Since I suck at physics and math I didn't do very well in Aces High ;)

There is very little in the way of similiar skill or tactics in EvE simply because your ship doesn't exist, its just a model. You're actually just a point, have no collision model, can't use terrain for cover etc etc.

There is however skill in recognizing and countering ships, probable setups, etc etc except its pretty useless since almost always that is nullified by force of numbers and then it just comes down to who has more dps vs ehp and who brought more ewar.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
BoBoZoBo
MGroup9
#29 - 2013-09-11 13:01:18 UTC
Umm wut?
You don't need to target to orbit.

What are you doing that is frustrating yourself?

Primary Test Subject • SmackTalker Elite
Lyttle Spacedust
Doomheim
#30 - 2013-09-11 14:02:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyttle Spacedust
My my, such pessimism.What?

I thought the Eve community was alot more open minded and tech savy then some of the replies Ive read here. Some of you sound as if you would be against the horseless carriage. I think that comes from playing EVE for so many years..you stop thinking outside the box.

So on a whim I tried an experiment and guess what? With some macro software i was able to tie the doublemouse clicks to the keyboard arrow keys. Now I can pilot my ship with my arrow keys instead of double clicking the screen.

Now if stupid ole me can come up with this, Im sure the coding brains at CCP can do better. Right?Big smile
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#31 - 2013-09-11 14:17:15 UTC
OP, even if there were such a control scheme implemented, it introduces the assumption that the game reacts more than once per second to what's going on. Eve takes one second to react in the best case scenario, and often takes much longer. Now, imagine any twitch, live-input game that is working off of 1000-2000 ms ping. That's unplayable.

Creating the control scheme is certainly not the hard part, as you demo'd yourself. A harder part is to figure out how the heck to get things to display in a reasonable manner. The fixed-absolute-angle way ships are currently displayed makes live piloting hellish. Without a "cockpit" view or some way to bind the camera to the ship's heading, keyboard/joystick controlls are useless.

The hardest part is simplifying Eve's server side mechanics and infrastructure to support something like this. I have a feeling that's not possible at this time, at least without sacrificing the ability to have battles with thousands of people in one place.

And of course, all this helps almost nothing, as the vast majority of Eve ships are far too slow, large, unagile, or otherwise unwieldly to fly manually. Do you want to hold down a key for 15 seconds while your battleship turns around?

KuroVolt wrote:
We could use dreadnaughts for it and call it Dance Dance Revelation!

I... I don't even...

That's it, I'm biomassing. Have fun, y'all.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
BoBoZoBo
MGroup9
#32 - 2013-09-11 15:12:19 UTC  |  Edited by: BoBoZoBo
Lyttle Spacedust wrote:
My my, such pessimism.What?

I thought the Eve community was alot more open minded and tech savy then some of the replies Ive read here. Some of you sound as if you would be against the horseless carriage. I think that comes from playing EVE for so many years..you stop thinking outside the box.

So on a whim I tried an experiment and guess what? With some macro software i was able to tie the doublemouse clicks to the keyboard arrow keys. Now I can pilot my ship with my arrow keys instead of double clicking the screen.

Now if stupid ole me can come up with this, Im sure the coding brains at CCP can do better. Right?Big smile


So you come in here making a claim that just is not true, backed up by an example how how little you understand what you CAN do and then sh!t on us for correcting you? And we are the close mined ones? Good for you on figuring some things out finally. Did you find out you don't need to target people to orbit them?

I wish we could collectively vote to ban people.

Primary Test Subject • SmackTalker Elite
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2013-09-11 15:14:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project
Lyttle Spacedust wrote:
It's pretty dated.

First you need to have a target to turn to or move towards or orbit.

If you have no target, all you can do is just move in a straight line aimlessly.

So piloting in Eve is very target based.

You dont need to overhaul the whole thing just give us a little freedom to yaw left or right, up or down via keyboard or mouse without the need for a target.

Dude!
Doubleclick in space and see the light!

Edit: Yes you can actually steer your ship that way.

Edit2:
There are keys to ac/decelerate your ship, btw.
Check them out in the proper escape-menu.
Lyttle Spacedust
Doomheim
#34 - 2013-09-11 15:39:57 UTC
BoBoZoBo wrote:


So you come in here making a claim that just is not true, backed up by an example how how little you understand what you CAN do and then sh!t on us for correcting you? And we are the close mined ones? Good for you on figuring some things out finally. Did you find out you don't need to target people to orbit them?

I wish we could collectively vote to ban people.



LOL!!!Big smile

You'd think this thread was on how I just insulted your momma the way some of you are responding. I thought this was a helpful community...why so angry? Are all capsuleers like this?What?
CCP Falcon
#35 - 2013-09-12 11:20:02 UTC

Locked on request of the late OP.

CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3
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