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GM clarification on rewording of the Terms of Service

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Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#721 - 2013-09-11 22:55:39 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
CuteKitten wrote:
Welp, pack it in; we've all been impersonating this dude all along:

https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/EvE%20Online%20Player


Guess I'll have to petition everyone I see.

All of the NPC alt shitposters are impersonating https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/NPC%20alt

Damn it, now I have to make a tax evasion corp to avoid a ban.

Science and Trade Institute [STI] is an NPC entity and as such my views do not represent those of the entity or any of its members

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=276984&p=38
Solstice Project's Alt
Doomheim
#722 - 2013-09-11 22:55:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project's Alt
RubyPorto wrote:
Rioting never works
That's not true at all.

Proven by the players themselves.


WTF.

Buy Solstice Project for PLEX4GOOD ! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=301266 (this alt-character will get deleted once the sale is done, on 6th of december)
Solstice Project's Alt
Doomheim
#723 - 2013-09-11 22:58:25 UTC
Btw

How do you like my face ?

It's a random face. Just a few minor details adjusted.
I believe the character creator knows what it's doing.

Buy Solstice Project for PLEX4GOOD ! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=301266 (this alt-character will get deleted once the sale is done, on 6th of december)
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#724 - 2013-09-11 23:02:09 UTC
Solstice Project's Alt wrote:
Btw

How do you like my face ?

It's a random face. Just a few minor details adjusted.
I believe the character creator knows what it's doing.

Needs to display moar chest Shocked

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Kazruw Drol
State War Academy
Caldari State
#725 - 2013-09-11 23:02:47 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
CuteKitten wrote:
Welp, pack it in; we've all been impersonating this dude all along:

https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/EvE%20Online%20Player


Guess I'll have to petition everyone I see.

All of the NPC alt shitposters are impersonating https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/NPC%20alt

You should start by reporting all the characters claiming to be in NPC corporation.

I may or may not be impersonating one of my alts or vice versa.

Hra Neuvosto
Party Cat Enterprises
#726 - 2013-09-11 23:02:55 UTC
Only posting so I can say "I was there" later.
Le Creed
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#727 - 2013-09-11 23:07:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Le Creed
E: ~snip~ (Someone stated below that posting GM correspondance may be agains the rules. Today I learned)

My point still stands though and is extremely pertinent to the TOS/EULA change.
Solstice Project's Alt
Doomheim
#728 - 2013-09-11 23:10:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project's Alt
Le Creed wrote:
Quote:
--- removed GM correspondence ---


Here is a petition I filed a several months back and the GM response. (I created a contract to a winner of Somer Blink for his winning ship (a malediction) in return for 1b isk. )

The GM even states in the petition that my violation wasn't specifically in the EULA ( While the EULA may have not specified that "one cannot use the corporation name of another corporation as contract titles") but they were going to infract me anyways.



So I suggest you guys prepare yourselves as they will extrapolate on this new wording of the EULA to infract even harsher punishments.
I know a guy who made 90 billion isk by selling a crow to a winner ! *LOL*

Buy Solstice Project for PLEX4GOOD ! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=301266 (this alt-character will get deleted once the sale is done, on 6th of december)
Petrus Justinianus
Trinity Collective Co.
DammFam
#729 - 2013-09-11 23:14:43 UTC
Le Creed wrote:
Quote:
Here is the very wording of the EULA ". No player may use the character name of another player to impersonate or falsely represent his or her identity." I have not done that.

If you could point to where I used the name of another player to impersonate my identity, please show me. My ingame character name is listed as the contract issuer and all it takes is to click on the contract to see that I am in no way assocated with SOMER. It isn't even that, I never personally claimed be associated with SOMER, and that is the only possible statement in the EULA for you to base this infraction on.

Have a nice day,



Quote:
I would also like to note that the impersonation section of the EULA applies only to character names as stated in the previous sections of the EULA. I am not claiming another players name as my own and therefore, I am not in violation of the EULA.


Quote:
Hello,

Our apologies for the delay in getting back to you.

As stated in the previous support ticket, creating contracts titled with "Somer Blink" to specific bilnk winners who may be expecting a contract from Somer Blink implies that you, the contract issuer, have a connection to the corporation. If you only meant to sell ships to Somer Blink winners then your contracts should have been titled "I'm selling ships to Somer Blink winners" or something of that sort and that would be perfectly fine and within game mechanics. While the EULA may have not specified that "one cannot use the corporation name of another corporation as contract titles", doing so with contract names that suggest a relation to the well known lottery corporation and with a clear attempt to mislead or trick players into thinking that they were actually accepting a contract from a representative of that corporation is deemed as impersonation and impersonation is in violation of our rules.

I'm sorry but in this case we will not be retracting the warning you received and as a valued customer, we want to also urge you to please take care to avoid any such violations in the future, as repeated violations may eventually lead to a game ban. As a final conclusion has been reached by two Senior Game Masters, both GM Nythanos and myself and as we've reached to a point where we can only reiterate what has already been stated, this support ticket will be closed.

Best regards,
Senior GM Banton
CCP Customer Support | EVE Online | DUST 514


Here is a petition I filed a several months back and the GM response. (I created a contract to a winner of Somer Blink for his winning ship (a malediction) in return for 1b isk. )

The GM even states in the petition that my violation wasn't specifically in the EULA ( While the EULA may have not specified that "one cannot use the corporation name of another corporation as contract titles") but they were going to infract me anyways.



So I suggest you guys prepare yourselves as they will extrapolate on this new wording of the EULA to infract even harsher punishments.


be careful with quoting the exact text of GM correspondence, thats against the rules also i believe. but yes i agree with you, they can "interpret" the TOS and EULA in any number of ways to fit any situation. which is pretty much complete bull**** because its a legal contract. contracts shouldn't be up for interpretation.
Melienia
THE BOARD OF EDUCATION
#730 - 2013-09-11 23:14:58 UTC
Le Creed wrote:
Quote:
Here is the very wording of the EULA ". No player may use the character name of another player to impersonate or falsely represent his or her identity." I have not done that.

If you could point to where I used the name of another player to impersonate my identity, please show me. My ingame character name is listed as the contract issuer and all it takes is to click on the contract to see that I am in no way assocated with SOMER. It isn't even that, I never personally claimed be associated with SOMER, and that is the only possible statement in the EULA for you to base this infraction on.

Have a nice day,



Quote:
I would also like to note that the impersonation section of the EULA applies only to character names as stated in the previous sections of the EULA. I am not claiming another players name as my own and therefore, I am not in violation of the EULA.


Quote:
Hello,

Our apologies for the delay in getting back to you.

As stated in the previous support ticket, creating contracts titled with "Somer Blink" to specific bilnk winners who may be expecting a contract from Somer Blink implies that you, the contract issuer, have a connection to the corporation. If you only meant to sell ships to Somer Blink winners then your contracts should have been titled "I'm selling ships to Somer Blink winners" or something of that sort and that would be perfectly fine and within game mechanics. While the EULA may have not specified that "one cannot use the corporation name of another corporation as contract titles", doing so with contract names that suggest a relation to the well known lottery corporation and with a clear attempt to mislead or trick players into thinking that they were actually accepting a contract from a representative of that corporation is deemed as impersonation and impersonation is in violation of our rules.

I'm sorry but in this case we will not be retracting the warning you received and as a valued customer, we want to also urge you to please take care to avoid any such violations in the future, as repeated violations may eventually lead to a game ban. As a final conclusion has been reached by two Senior Game Masters, both GM Nythanos and myself and as we've reached to a point where we can only reiterate what has already been stated, this support ticket will be closed.

Best regards,
Senior GM Banton
CCP Customer Support | EVE Online | DUST 514


Here is a petition I filed a several months back and the GM response. (I created a contract to a winner of Somer Blink for his winning ship (a malediction) in return for 1b isk. )

The GM even states in the petition that my violation wasn't specifically in the EULA ( While the EULA may have not specified that "one cannot use the corporation name of another corporation as contract titles") but they were going to infract me anyways.



So I suggest you guys prepare yourselves as they will extrapolate on this new wording of the EULA to infract even harsher punishments.


well, I'm not afraid of GM fiat /now/

/sarcasm
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#731 - 2013-09-11 23:15:56 UTC
Yeah, clearly the GM team is trying to get away with "we'll make an effort to bend the EULA to protect our favorite pet players (Chribba, somer, etc)". I appreciate the people who go that extra mile to create interesting content in the game, but there is a price to fame. The bigger your sandcastle, the more tempting it is to try and kick over, and you shouldn't be given special protection just because you've managed to poke your head further out from the sand than others...you particularly shouldn't be given special treatment in this case, as crawling your way to the top on the backs of others is what this game is all about, and king of the hill is pointless if you change the rules for the guy at the top.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
Solstice Project's Alt
Doomheim
#732 - 2013-09-11 23:18:53 UTC
I've just realized ... James315 is impersonating Jesus and should be banned.

Buy Solstice Project for PLEX4GOOD ! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=301266 (this alt-character will get deleted once the sale is done, on 6th of december)
James Fnord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#733 - 2013-09-11 23:19:30 UTC  |  Edited by: James Fnord
The GMs pulling this kind of stuff is completely unacceptable. They need to be reigned in and a dev needs to post here with an explanation.
Not Will
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#734 - 2013-09-11 23:21:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Not Will
What I dont get is that writing a ToS that isn't vague and over-reaching isn't even very hard.


Makes me think the whole thing is intentional.
Echo Echoplex
#735 - 2013-09-11 23:27:05 UTC
Changing my name to PartOfSomethingBigger

http://www.eveonline.com/capsuleers/jita-riots

Untutored courage is useless in the face of educated bullets. Gen. George S. Patton
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#736 - 2013-09-11 23:28:17 UTC
Quote:
Best regards,
Senior GM Banton


Clearly impersonating a Bantam.

Science and Trade Institute [STI] is an NPC entity and as such my views do not represent those of the entity or any of its members

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=276984&p=38
internecionX
EVE Engineering Corporation
#737 - 2013-09-11 23:31:47 UTC
holy crap this is a slippery slope.

Why is that allowed for SOMER but not "my random lottery program i just made"

Is there a specific threshold of users of "my random lottery program i just made" before i get the same treatment? Can you tell me what it is? 100 users? 1000 users?

If i make a "well known" (by what rules?) Lottery called "TEST reimbursement" does the SRP guy for TEST get banned because my lotto is more popular?

We can go endlessly down this rabbit hole.
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#738 - 2013-09-11 23:34:10 UTC
Also, I've been wondering what happened to the ever so common and blatantly obvious Blink "bonus win" scam contracts.

Because it's so hard to verify what you GET vs what you PAY on a contract using in-game tools. Good thing we have consistency in application of the vague overreaching rules.

Science and Trade Institute [STI] is an NPC entity and as such my views do not represent those of the entity or any of its members

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=276984&p=38
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#739 - 2013-09-11 23:35:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
{Arne Skrydsboel} I'm shooting this statue, I invite y'all to join https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=276984 You can now get banned for stating that your alt is your alt.

Someone is currently providing fireworks in Jita according to Chribba's PRISM/ Echelon type project.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Hawelt
Warpspeed Shipping Inc.
#740 - 2013-09-11 23:35:24 UTC
GM Karidor wrote:
[...]

As much as we'd love to be able to draw a clear line, it is quite impossible. Impersonation can take various forms, and each with endless subtleties involved. While most cases luckily (for us GMs, that is) tend to be rather clear, being the most obvious form of impersonation by taking up a similar character name from another player for malicious purposes, more and more players are attempting much more subtle attempts.
What needs to be kept in mind regarding impersonations is that all characters involved are seen as their own, independent entity, which effectively means it's quite possible that a situation may appear where a player impersonates his trustworthy main character using an alt character located on the same account. As there is no in-game way to verify whether or not certain characters are located on the same account (the API needs the key and external tools to be read properly, so that one doesn't count here), this case would be handled the very same way as the impersonator character being owned by another player.




Expect a support ticket requesting case specific clarification everytime I want to apply to some corp, tell someone about my alts/secondary accounts or get asked about alts.

This clarification is so incredibly vague and useless that I refuse to comment on it in polite company.

How exactly is it possible to talk about additional characters you control without accidently ending up impersonificating your own alter ego under some strange interpretation of that vague policy ?

Is there anything meaningful I can say on the topic of my alts without nagging the GMs with a support ticket just to be sure?!


This looks like rules some of these tiny, non-commercial enforced roleplay communities would enforce but not some mainstream-ish MMO where a significant portion of the customers is multi-boxing.

/facepalm