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GM clarification on rewording of the Terms of Service

First post First post First post
Author
Not Will
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#741 - 2013-09-11 23:36:52 UTC
Oh yeah. While I'm at it. Gm Karidor is clearly impersonating Karid

GM. Ban Thyself.
Sirane Elrek
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#742 - 2013-09-11 23:36:59 UTC
Not Will wrote:
What I dont get is that writing a ToS that isn't vague and over-reaching isn't even very hard.


Makes me think the whole thing is intentional.

Of course it's intentional. But the biggest issue isn't that the ToS addition is vague, but that a) representatives of CCP claim there was no change at all in the first place, and b) that you can even fit the definition of "other players" between your own accounts is just so far out of the realm of reason that nobody with a sound mind can even start to pretend it makes sense.
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#743 - 2013-09-11 23:37:53 UTC
internecionX wrote:
holy crap this is a slippery slope.

Why is that allowed for SOMER but not "my random lottery program i just made"


Better yet!

Just what is your lottery program allowed to do before it's deemed to be impersonating SOMER Blink and shut down as a result?

Science and Trade Institute [STI] is an NPC entity and as such my views do not represent those of the entity or any of its members

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=276984&p=38

Ascendic
Polaris Syndicate
#744 - 2013-09-11 23:38:31 UTC
Ali Aras wrote:
Vatek wrote:

So we should just not discuss it at all and trust the CSM to read our minds? I wasn't aware that using a forum intended for discussion about the game to discuss the game was "ineffective rioting". Last I heard, rioting worked pretty well to reverse the Incarna trainwreck!

Brushing us off with "okay we're gonna yap with CCP about this and release a crappy devblog 2 months from now that doesn't actually address anything" sucks.

Productive posting is fine and great. I use it as a CSM member to distill into better feedback; you're right that I don't read any minds. I also receive substantial assistance in representation via private messages such as evemails. I do also *play* the game, and have been both perpetrator and victim of the types of scams covered under this update. The bit about rioting in this thread was to attempt to dissuade people from making 100x posts saying "this is bad ccp sux see the csm agrees"; contrary to popular belief, large public outcry is largely ineffective in getting anything done.

I was unaware that posting acknowledging concerns and promising to use the tools at my disposal to work to resolve them constituted a "brush-off". I meant what I said when I said that I'd seen a lot of good come out of the CSM process, more than just "a devblog once in a while". The fact that we work primarily under NDA and outside of the public eye can make it hard to see, especially when our efforts avert a crisis instead of responding to one.


Ok honestly now,

Who voted for this useless fcking tool? I'm curious.
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#745 - 2013-09-11 23:38:41 UTC
Players in NPC corporations shouldn't be allowed to post on the forums. They don't have permission to speak for those corps.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise

Solstice Project's Alt
Doomheim
#746 - 2013-09-11 23:39:49 UTC
It's a conspiracy, because of the fact that most people in this game actually are alts.

With the two new EA guys and SoundWave gone, CCP can finally hit the main stream.

But there's an issue.

500.000 subscribers <> 500.000 subscriptions.
40.000 players logged in <> 40.000 accounts logged in

*We* all know the truth, but most people out there are completely oblivious to this !


Once CCP hits the main stream, people will realize that indeed
MOST PEOPLE IN THIS GAME ARE ACTUALLY ALTS
so they ban people from making their alts public !


In short time, this won't work out too well ...

In the long term though, as more and more new players join the game,
the knowledge about the fact that most people in this game are indeed alts
might actually become a forgotton one.

Buy Solstice Project for PLEX4GOOD ! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=301266 (this alt-character will get deleted once the sale is done, on 6th of december)

Orakkus
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#747 - 2013-09-11 23:41:21 UTC
James Fnord wrote:
The GMs pulling this kind of stuff is completely unacceptable. They need to be reigned in and a dev needs to post here with an explanation.


As someone else said earlier.. this situation is now above just having a random dev stopping by to "clear things up". The CSM, as per CSM Member Ali Aras indicated they were given forenotice of this and from the way it sounds, by and large the CSM was okay with the results. Now, you'll notice that none have really responded on Twitter about this issue.. in fact they seem to be especially quiet. While that could be them busily talking with CCP about fixing this issue (which is so simple to do its absurd), having no communication from them about this issue does worry me. Particular since, in my opinion, the effects of this change are damaging enough that it is worth breaking any NDA over this issue.

He's not just famous, he's "IN" famous. - Ned Nederlander

Solstice Project's Alt
Doomheim
#748 - 2013-09-11 23:41:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project's Alt
Ali Aras wrote:
large public outcry is largely ineffective in getting anything done.
Could you please stop spreading this lie ?


Thank you.

Buy Solstice Project for PLEX4GOOD ! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=301266 (this alt-character will get deleted once the sale is done, on 6th of december)

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#749 - 2013-09-11 23:43:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Solstice Project's Alt wrote:
It's a conspiracy, because of the fact that most people in this game actually are alts.

With the two new EA guys and SoundWave gone, CCP can finally hit the main stream.

But there's an issue.

500.000 subscribers <> 500.000 subscriptions.
40.000 players logged in <> 40.000 accounts logged in

*We* all know the truth, but most people out there are completely oblivious to this !


Once CCP hits the main stream, people will realize that indeed
MOST PEOPLE IN THIS GAME ARE ACTUALLY ALTS
so they ban people from making their alts public !


In short time, this won't work out too well ...

In the long term though, as more and more new players join the game,
the knowledge about the fact that most people in this game are indeed alts
might actually become a forgotton one.

They sneaked another EA shill in? There goes the neighbourhood.

Is it time to start contracting Damage Controls to CCP staff?

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Le Creed
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#750 - 2013-09-11 23:43:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Le Creed
Rhes wrote:
Players in NPC corporations shouldn't be allowed to post on the forums. They don't have permission to speak for those corps.


Welp. This also means that players in NPC corporations shouldn't be allowed to play at all because their actions in game reflect upon the NPCs pertaining to their corporation and are therefore in violation of the new TOS/EULA as they would be impersonating that NPC group.
Sirane Elrek
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#751 - 2013-09-11 23:44:21 UTC
Orakkus wrote:
Particular since, in my opinion, the effects of this change are damaging enough that it is worth breaking any NDA over this issue.

No it's certainly not worth breaking a contract over people being mad about video games.
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#752 - 2013-09-11 23:44:40 UTC
Orakkus wrote:
James Fnord wrote:
The GMs pulling this kind of stuff is completely unacceptable. They need to be reigned in and a dev needs to post here with an explanation.


As someone else said earlier.. this situation is now above just having a random dev stopping by to "clear things up". The CSM, as per CSM Member Ali Aras indicated they were given forenotice of this and from the way it sounds, by and large the CSM was okay with the results. Now, you'll notice that none have really responded on Twitter about this issue.. in fact they seem to be especially quiet. While that could be them busily talking with CCP about fixing this issue (which is so simple to do its absurd), having no communication from them about this issue does worry me. Particular since, in my opinion, the effects of this change are damaging enough that it is worth breaking any NDA over this issue.


The CSM response to this issue has been embarrassing.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#753 - 2013-09-11 23:45:20 UTC
Orakkus wrote:
James Fnord wrote:
The GMs pulling this kind of stuff is completely unacceptable. They need to be reigned in and a dev needs to post here with an explanation.

As someone else said earlier.. this situation is now above just having a random dev stopping by to "clear things up". The CSM, as per CSM Member Ali Aras indicated they were given forenotice of this and from the way it sounds, by and large the CSM was okay with the results. Now, you'll notice that none have really responded on Twitter about this issue.. in fact they seem to be especially quiet. While that could be them busily talking with CCP about fixing this issue.

"How can we make them shut up"

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Sirane Elrek
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#754 - 2013-09-11 23:45:51 UTC
Rhes wrote:
The CSM response to this issue has been embarrassing.

Not quite as embarrassing as the CCP response though.
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#755 - 2013-09-11 23:46:28 UTC
Rhes wrote:
Players in NPC corporations shouldn't be allowed to post on the forums. They don't have permission to speak for those corps.

\/ no ban pretty please

Science and Trade Institute [STI] is an NPC entity and as such my views do not represent those of the entity or any of its members

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=276984&p=38

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#756 - 2013-09-11 23:47:31 UTC
Sirane Elrek wrote:
Rhes wrote:
The CSM response to this issue has been embarrassing.

Not quite as embarrassing as the CCP response though.

Altogether embarrassing. All around

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
#757 - 2013-09-11 23:47:32 UTC
I may or may not be played by a player who may or may not have more than one account, and may or may not on one of these accounts have more than one character. Such a secondary character may or may not currently be shooting a certain structure in Jita largely representative of the last time CCP tried to ruin their own game and source of income.
Solstice Project's Alt
Doomheim
#758 - 2013-09-11 23:48:26 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Is it time to start contracting Damage Controls to CCP staff?
As i've heard, they did so for Valkyrie.

How do you like my face ?

Buy Solstice Project for PLEX4GOOD ! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=301266 (this alt-character will get deleted once the sale is done, on 6th of december)

Solstice Project's Alt
Doomheim
#759 - 2013-09-11 23:49:10 UTC
Alphea Abbra wrote:
I may or may not be played by a player who may or may not have more than one account, and may or may not on one of these accounts have more than one character. Such a secondary character may or may not currently be shooting a certain structure in Jita largely representative of the last time CCP tried to ruin their own game and source of income.

Are you ?

Buy Solstice Project for PLEX4GOOD ! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=301266 (this alt-character will get deleted once the sale is done, on 6th of december)

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#760 - 2013-09-11 23:50:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Georgina Parmala wrote:
Science and Trade Institute [STI] is an NPC entity and as such my views do not represent those of the entity or any of it's members

its, not it's (it's = it is/ it has), you need to change that before someone petitions you for impersonating an impersonator that knows grammar Straight

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Feyd's Survival Pack