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New dev blog: Introducting the EVE Launcher

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mkint
#261 - 2011-11-14 17:36:15 UTC
CCP Mandrake wrote:
Finally, after serveral cups of coffee, i've finished reading all posts and got some pointers going forward making the launcher.


1. The launcher shouldn't start up unless there is an update. I've currently added an option in the settings menu that makes the launcher not start up unless the eve client needs to be updated (version 0.22), but i'm seriously considering making that the default behavior and not requiering you to mark a checkbox to get that behavior.
We did get a bit ahead of our selves here, the way we envisioned the launcher was to be able to type in your username and password into the launcher, select your character and enter the game directly when you hit play. We don't however have access to this behavior just yet, so until we can get that working, the launcher should be optional.

Your ability to understand user concerns has earned you a place on the "Best Devs" list.

I really hope once you've got launcher login functionality it's quicker than even the existing login. I don't know about other people, but for me even fractions of seconds count, especially on loading screens.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Axl Borlara
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#262 - 2011-11-14 17:36:44 UTC
CCP Mandrake wrote:
Finally, after serveral cups of coffee, i've finished reading all posts and got some pointers going forward making the launcher.


Just a note like this makes a huge difference. Knowing that CCP are reading things is vital.

Of course, the next step is doing something sensible having read our posts...

And everything you said makes sense!
I particularly like the fact that you are willing, if not admit to mistakes, then at least change the plan based on feedback rather than carry on regardless.
Valeo Galaem
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#263 - 2011-11-14 17:37:48 UTC
CCP Mandrake wrote:
We did get a bit ahead of our selves here, the way we envisioned the launcher was to be able to type in your username and password into the launcher, select your character and enter the game directly when you hit play. We don't however have access to this behavior just yet, so until we can get that working, the launcher should be optional.

Wouldn't this deprive us of seeing the awesome login screen animations? Sad

Standalone Windows build of ccpgames/dae-to-red

https://github.com/Nu11u5/dae-to-red/releases
Omega Tron
Edge Dancers
Pan-Intergalatic Business Community
#264 - 2011-11-14 19:26:33 UTC
Just downloaded an update to the launcher program and it's working for me on my system.
I like it. --- +1
It currently is reporting about Tranquility status, but the PLAY button takes me to Singularity.
It looks like the other links are not enabled yet so no feedback for them.

CCP's sand box is EVE Online.  The sand is owned by CCP.  We pay them a monthly fee to throw the sand at each other.  That is all that is here, so move along. Nothing more to be seen.
Tidwald
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#265 - 2011-11-14 19:58:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Tidwald
CCP Mandrake wrote:
Finally, after serveral cups of coffee, i've finished reading all posts and got some pointers going forward making the launcher.
......


7. It need to behave nicely in a Windows environment - IT MUST NOT go changing access permissions to the 'C:\Program Files\CCP\SiSi' directory same applies to 'C:\Program Files\CCP\EVE' when rolled out to live.

When first run, launcher.exe asks for elevated privileges to lowerfolderprivs. I have no problems with allowing the elevated privileges when there is a clear need - such as when applying an update. But, changing the folder permissions to side-step the in built security is not acceptable.

When first run, after being updated with the SiSiLauncher, launcher appeared to download an update, ask for elevated privileges to run the updater (which is what I would expect), and an error dialog pops up "Errors occurred" - the logfile contains the following:

Traceback (most recent call last):
File "launcher.py", line 29, in module
File "localization\__init__.pyc", line 34, in LoadLocalizationData
File "localization\localization.pyc", line 31, in __init__
File "localization\localization.pyc", line 58, in _LoadLanguageData
File "xml\dom\minidom.pyc", line 1911, in parse
File "xml\dom\expatbuilder.pyc", line 922, in parse
IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'launcher/localization.xml'

That file 'launcher/localization.xml' exists, and existed before launcher was run.

Why are you changing the folder permissions? It can't be to allow the updater to run, as it correctly asks for elevated privileges. The main eve program correctly uses more appropriate locations for logs 'C:\Users\xxxxxx\Documents\EVE\logs' and specific folders under 'C:\Users\xxxxx\AppData\Local\CCP\EVE'. The launcher appears to write its main log to the later location so there really is no need to change the permissions on the Sisi folder under "Program Files".
Ariane VoxDei
#266 - 2011-11-14 20:06:47 UTC
CCP Mandrake wrote:
so until we can get that working, the launcher should be optional.
I think you posted before having sufficient coffee levels.

We do not want mandatory launcher.
So scrap that "until" bit and keep it optional. Dont care if it is default on, no doubt it is better for most of the uninformed masses without "needs" or even the knowledge that they might want to have needs, as long as we can make it go away.

That is unless you can convince us that it will be so awesom and give us as much control as various existing methods we use, most of the common of which have already been listed:
parameters to eve.exe
parameters to 'start' (affinity, priotity).
setting environment variables (overriding "homedir" etc for multiaccount / separate overview settings per char)
Lots of things that I have not heard that the launcher is going to grant us just yet.
Esrevid Nekkeg
Justified and Ancient
#267 - 2011-11-14 23:42:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Esrevid Nekkeg
CCP Mandrake wrote:
4. Regular old static patches will have to be supported until the end of time.
So when the last stars fade out, the last energy dissipates, the universe folds into itself (and some people are sitting in a restaurant enjoying a good meal and watching the show), the last coherent bit of information available up till the bitter end will be the last patch CCP ever made for EvE......Shocked
I know you have build the best SF simulation game ever and plan to keep it that way in the future, but man, that's some impressive goal.....Big smile

Here I used to have a sig of our old Camper in space. Now it is disregarded as being the wrong format. Looking out the window I see one thing: Nothing wrong with the format of our Camper! Silly CCP......
Rhinanna
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#268 - 2011-11-15 02:18:05 UTC
Suggestions:

Option - Persistent Launcher - Lancher stays open even after EvE has launched (handy for multiple clients)
Option - Launch with profile - Custom buttons added to the launcher config, allows you to run eve with certain options pre-definded. Particually useful for people with dual screen, who sometimes want to run eve in one screen or the other and its a pain to switch them over in the options manually. Basically everything in the options could be setup as a profile, saved to the launcher where you could create a button to run it.
Option - Auto create new build (sisi/traq), a new option to do this from the current code-base automatically would be nice.
Option - Save account API, display important details on launcher load - aka subscription time remaining, skill queue time remaining, character location, current ship. Clicking an account would the game with that account username filled automatically, also specific profiles could be set for specific accounts.
Options - Backup, import/export settings e.t.c for resolving eve problems when client won't load.

Make the launcher a (optional) tool, not just a patcher.

-The sword is only as sharp as the one who wields it! Other names: Drenzul (WoT, WoW, Lineage 2, WarH, BloodBowl, BSG, SC2 and lots more) 
Sarina Berghil
New Zion Judge Advocate
#269 - 2011-11-15 09:12:23 UTC
CCP Mandrake wrote:

Static patches, also named fallback patches are something we where hoping to phase out, apparently that is not happening as a lot more players than expected use them.


To answer an earlier dev question, I have come to rely on fallback patches because it has been the only reliable way to patch the client for a while. Hopefully the new launcher will change that, but manual patching processes often have their uses in terms of versatility.


CCP Mandrake wrote:

3. Patching multiple clients. This one is a bit tricky, because the launcher is embedded into the client, it can only update that client. it can't update other eve clients because it doesn't know about them.
It seems to me that there is a need for improving the sisi launcher so that it could manage all your eve clients and not just the test clients, can't promise the ui will be made any prettier though.


It makes the most sense for a particular instance of a client to only be responsible for its own patching. A meta launcher tool that can handle all clients could be an option, but it's probably simpler to rely on the fallback patches and the user's own discretion on how to handle it most efficiently.
Spanking Monkeys
ZC Omega
#270 - 2011-11-15 10:40:22 UTC
Ariane VoxDei wrote:
CCP Mandrake wrote:
so until we can get that working, the launcher should be optional.
I think you posted before having sufficient coffee levels.

We do not want mandatory launcher.
So scrap that "until" bit and keep it optional. Dont care if it is default on, no doubt it is better for most of the uninformed masses without "needs" or even the knowledge that they might want to have needs, as long as we can make it go away.

That is unless you can convince us that it will be so awesom and give us as much control as various existing methods we use, most of the common of which have already been listed:
parameters to eve.exe
parameters to 'start' (affinity, priotity).
setting environment variables (overriding "homedir" etc for multiaccount / separate overview settings per char)
Lots of things that I have not heard that the launcher is going to grant us just yet.



basicly needs to have a option to turn it off compleatly, until and only after it patches all installs(same pc) on the same downloaded data. thats the biggest issue i have with it in its current state, why shoudl i be made to download the same stuff 7 times?

unless your gonna add the little tick box we get now?(the clean up data box in case you didnt guess)
Sevena Black
The Black Redemption
#271 - 2011-11-15 10:51:21 UTC
The launcher would be a good idea if it increases your ability to launch EVE. That means you should be able to configure the way it works:

It replaces the current login screen

Allows server selection (SiSi, Tranquality etc)

It allows the launch of multiple clients

Patching should be specified for each client

Ability to preset launched characters per account

No advertisement / option to disable


Simply put: I click launch and things become easier and faster than they are now.
CCP Mandrake
C C P
C C P Alliance
#272 - 2011-11-15 11:22:25 UTC
Tidwald wrote:
CCP Mandrake wrote:
Finally, after serveral cups of coffee, i've finished reading all posts and got some pointers going forward making the launcher.
......


7. It need to behave nicely in a Windows environment - IT MUST NOT go changing access permissions to the 'C:\Program Files\CCP\SiSi' directory same applies to 'C:\Program Files\CCP\EVE' when rolled out to live.

When first run, launcher.exe asks for elevated privileges to lowerfolderprivs. I have no problems with allowing the elevated privileges when there is a clear need - such as when applying an update. But, changing the folder permissions to side-step the in built security is not acceptable.

When first run, after being updated with the SiSiLauncher, launcher appeared to download an update, ask for elevated privileges to run the updater (which is what I would expect), and an error dialog pops up "Errors occurred" - the logfile contains the following:

Traceback (most recent call last):
File "launcher.py", line 29, in module
File "localization\__init__.pyc", line 34, in LoadLocalizationData
File "localization\localization.pyc", line 31, in __init__
File "localization\localization.pyc", line 58, in _LoadLanguageData
File "xml\dom\minidom.pyc", line 1911, in parse
File "xml\dom\expatbuilder.pyc", line 922, in parse
IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'launcher/localization.xml'

That file 'launcher/localization.xml' exists, and existed before launcher was run.

Why are you changing the folder permissions? It can't be to allow the updater to run, as it correctly asks for elevated privileges. The main eve program correctly uses more appropriate locations for logs 'C:\Users\xxxxxx\Documents\EVE\logs' and specific folders under 'C:\Users\xxxxx\AppData\Local\CCP\EVE'. The launcher appears to write its main log to the later location so there really is no need to change the permissions on the Sisi folder under "Program Files".


The reason for changing the folder security settings is so that you don´t have to get that popup asking for raised privileges every time you run the launcher, as you do right now when you run the installer, patches and repair tool.
It only does this for the eve client folder, but the launcher will notice any file that is not in a state it is supposed to be in and "update" it to how it´s supposed to be. That makes up for lowering the folder security settings.

stuff
Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#273 - 2011-11-15 11:34:21 UTC
Didn't read all pages but chiming in what I think many others will also say;

Everyone who plays EVE "for real" has multiple accounts. Make a launcher that patches multiple EVE clients on same PC smoothly and in one go. I don't want to run launcher three times to patch three clients for three accounts. I want to run it once.
Aethlyn
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#274 - 2011-11-15 14:22:11 UTC
You can launch multiple clients from one folder while faking multiple installations. See my post earlier in this thread. This solution not only saves CCP dev time, it also keeps the launcher clean and easy to use, even for starters just testing the waters with only one account. You can't patch multiple files at once (without multiplying the work), so in the end the laziest solution would be to create/update hard-copies of all files, but then again I prefer the symbolic link solution.

Looking for more thoughts? Follow me on Twitter.
La Merovingian
Sailor's Grave
#275 - 2011-11-15 17:01:10 UTC
Tidwald wrote:
Mohr Cowbell wrote:
Salpun wrote:


Sisi currently works for me. Using the sisi launcher forcing a repair did not add the new functionality. Did the Win7 64bit files not get updated?

The new files are there and a launcher exe that is 458 KB is size is in the folder but does not run anything when clicked on.


Same issue here on Win7-64. When I run the launcher, I can see the process appear in task manager for about a second, then it goes away. I also tried right-clicking the shortcut and selecting Run as Administrator.


Exactly the same here, but on Win7-32.



CCP Mandrake, I'm quoting this again for emphasis.

There are several of us having this problem, and it wasn't mentioned after you had read all previous 200+ posts, my friend.

I'm sure the community would be more than happy to help troubleshoot this if you have some suggestions.
Xendrais
Order Of The Star
#276 - 2011-11-15 19:12:12 UTC
Very nice tool.

Could you add / change the way the Play button reacts AFTER you have clicked it. Presently it is not giving any feedback I can see confirming i have indeed clicked it and are only waiting for the game to start. Also, maybe it should be grayed out while the game is being updated / repaired.
CCP Mandrake
C C P
C C P Alliance
#277 - 2011-11-16 12:31:42 UTC
La Merovingian wrote:
Tidwald wrote:
Mohr Cowbell wrote:
Salpun wrote:


Sisi currently works for me. Using the sisi launcher forcing a repair did not add the new functionality. Did the Win7 64bit files not get updated?

The new files are there and a launcher exe that is 458 KB is size is in the folder but does not run anything when clicked on.


Same issue here on Win7-64. When I run the launcher, I can see the process appear in task manager for about a second, then it goes away. I also tried right-clicking the shortcut and selecting Run as Administrator.


Exactly the same here, but on Win7-32.



CCP Mandrake, I'm quoting this again for emphasis.

There are several of us having this problem, and it wasn't mentioned after you had read all previous 200+ posts, my friend.

I'm sure the community would be more than happy to help troubleshoot this if you have some suggestions.


So i´m hoping this is the embedded browser causing this, we are working on replacing the current internet explorer browser with chromium, an update will be sent out as soon as that is ready.

but if you do care to help, it would be most helpful to get the launcher log file, it is located under "%localappdata%\CCP\EVE\c_program_files_ccp_eve" and is called launcher.log (the last folder name depends on where your eve install is located).

stuff
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#278 - 2011-11-16 12:36:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Salpun
Just worked for me. Kicked me off all my eve installs.Lol

One issue the animation on my launcher is not moveing. after I hit enter it works but not before. There is a bug report in for this not filtered yet.

Win7-32 bit works fine though. Its odd

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
Aethlyn
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#279 - 2011-11-16 16:22:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Aethlyn
The launcher issues (launcher disappears after patching) might be related to missing quotes around paths that might (and here do) contain spaces?

Quote:
2011-11-09 20:45:27,878 - INFO - cmd: C:\Users\***\AppData\Local\CCP\EVE\e_games_eve online (singularity)\updater.exe /path=e:\games\eve online (singularity) /url="http://cdn1.eveonline.com/EveOnlineLauncher/launcherupdate_0_21.dat" /execute=launcher.exe

Looking for more thoughts? Follow me on Twitter.
Tara Nighthawk
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#280 - 2011-11-17 22:53:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Tara Nighthawk
WOW has this - although at least there it can be turned off.

Either:

1. I play EVE

2. I update EVE


I don't want to do both at once. Since Incarna the game has been slow and jerky and unstable. Why would we still need something else to use up processing power and graphics capability?


Thankyou for the return of Ship Spinning. Now we can turn off the identical CQs and try to play the game. Occasionally, we can even undock or jump through a gate without the game freezing or crashing. It is especially hard to play a Gallente as there is always the fear of losing my drones when the game freezes up - not to mention getting my arse shot off as the interface stops responding and I have to relog to get it back.


Please concentrate on fixing the game so we can play at flying our ships around in space. If we wanted to watch little avatars running around in the Captain's Quarters, we could play SecondLife or The Sims3 - both of which allow much more variety in the avatar creation and the environment. The fact that The Sims3 has also been flaky since the Pets Expansion is neither here nor there.



Edit -
Quote:
The launcher is currently only available on Windows. That means that if you are playing EVE on a Mac you won’t be able to enjoy it, our apologies.


This is the best news ever. So this crap is dumped on the Windows people and those of us on the Mac get to keep updating and running the game separate? We even get to keep the animated login screen. Thankyou CCP Lol


One last point. Please stop giving us extra 'features' which nobody actually wants and make the game playable again - in spaceships - in space Blink