These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

SuperCarrier Enhancement
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Eowyani
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2011-11-14 11:02:07 UTC
Okay so I am happy with the HP nurf (though I think the shield nurf is a lot harsh).
I am happy with the fact I can’t use drones.

But I think it’s a massive issue that I can't carry both Fighters and Fighter Bombers in my Drone bay I am not much of a super carrier if I can't carry what I am meant to carry. My idea is that CCP leave the Drone bays the same size but just prevents them from having drones in only Fighters and Fighter Bombers. (e.g. Wyvern has 200,000 leave it as this which will allow 20 Fighters and 20 Fighter Bombers).

They are going to have enough issues as it is with the new T3 BC as we can’t hit them but they can hit us very hard.

Now I know some people will say "can Battleships refit instantly to different guns" and my response is yes you can use a capital to refit your weapons we can’t do that as their fighters can’t be carried by anything but capitals or freighters. Also our ships cost 20billion ISK we can’t dock so we should have some benefits for being in the ship we are in.

Lets put this in a practical situation: I get deployed in my SC 6 Cyno jumps from my home system I take Fighter Bombers with me, but while there a Battleship fleet turns up so I need my Fighters now this will mean the whole fleet has to go home bring the Fighters out to the SC and then we have to jump all the way back. However if your a Battleship and you need to change from Auto Cannons to Artillery well all you have to do is warp to a Carrier or SC and right click fitting services then your done. A little unfair don’t you think?

Anyway I contacted CCP and was recommended making this post to gain support so that developers consider this as well as getting the support of CSM.

Eowyani
Daedalus Arcova
The Scope
#2 - 2011-11-14 11:35:43 UTC
IRC have supercaps?

Totally idiotic analogy. You still want an I-Win button. If you want to be able to field equal numbers of fighters and fighter bombers, then you have to sacrifice on how many of either you can use. This is EVE. HTFU.
Eowyani
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3 - 2011-11-14 11:48:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Eowyani
Daedalus Arcova wrote:
IRC have supercaps?

Totally idiotic analogy. You still want an I-Win button. If you want to be able to field equal numbers of fighters and fighter bombers, then you have to sacrifice on how many of either you can use. This is EVE. HTFU.


I am not going to get into a p** slinging competition with you. But thank you for your feedback.

No I don't want to have a "I-WIN button" I want a fair balanced ship even with a bay of both Fighters and Fighter Bombers a SC will need support to be fielded.

Regards
Eowyani
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#4 - 2011-11-14 12:22:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuka Solo
I too think this is unfair.

They are forcing us to choose between fighters and fighter bombers. All fine and dandy. But then those fighters should be capable of being specialized and or fitted to counter specific threats, like say... pointy frigates... and could actually engage and or kill those frigates but be useless against anything else... then that would be a much needed improvement.

Likewise we could fit fighters designed to engage battleships only.

Fighter bombers should be used for anti-cap and structure warfare in my opinion. Like one would fit a BS for a POS stomp before hand and pray a fleet doesn't jump you.

If they introduce new SC/carrier classes that are focused on fighter and fighter bomber dps bonuses and not fleet logistics, then that would be another start and give us more legitimacy with regards to demanding more drone versatility.

I bet if somebody proposed limiting battleships to a single type of gun (say 125mm t1 rails only), there will be tears of rage and lots of emo quit threats from many alts.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Eowyani
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5 - 2011-11-14 14:24:28 UTC
Not really what I had in mind, that would be just like having normal drones let the support fleet deal with frigs, cruisers, BC and we deal with BS and above. What I think is needed is the ability to carry 20 Fighters and 20 Fighter Bombers.

Eowyani
TrollFace TrololMcFluf
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2011-11-14 17:12:41 UTC
oh look bitter demi vets whining again
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#7 - 2011-11-14 17:32:19 UTC
If the BS in your example is able to just warp to a cap ship and refit, what's to stop you from doing the same? Last time I checked you could swap out drones via the fitting service just as easily as a BS can swap out guns.

In fact, a SC should be even more likely to be around another cap ship than a BS will. 99% of the time, a BS won't have a cap ship there to refit off of. However, a SC should always be in the company of other cap ships, since it's a fleet ship in the first place. So your example of the BS being able to swap guns out is utter crap. You're asking for the equivalent of giving BSes another 8 highslots but only letting them online half of the guns at once.

No, your SoloPwnMobile won't be the same anymore. Tough, get over it, that's the point.
Vincent Gaines
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#8 - 2011-11-14 18:01:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Gaines
Asuka Solo wrote:
But then those fighters should be capable of being specialized and or fitted to counter specific threats, like say... pointy frigates... and could actually engage and or kill those frigates but be useless against anything else... then that would be a much needed improvement.


Where's your support fleet? I mean, just a frigate.


Bring a carrier with you, have them put FBs in the corp hanger. Refit as needed.

Holy **** carriers might be used as intended as capital logistics platforms. someone slap me silly and call me sally.

Not a diplo. 

The above post was edited for spelling.
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#9 - 2011-11-14 18:36:38 UTC
Vincent Gaines wrote:
Asuka Solo wrote:
But then those fighters should be capable of being specialized and or fitted to counter specific threats, like say... pointy frigates... and could actually engage and or kill those frigates but be useless against anything else... then that would be a much needed improvement.


Where's your support fleet? I mean, just a frigate.


Bring a carrier with you, have them put FBs in the corp hanger. Refit as needed.

Holy **** carriers might be used as intended as capital logistics platforms. someone slap me silly and call me sally.


See? Sally gets it. :p
Insane Randomness
Stellar Pilgrimage
#10 - 2011-11-16 05:53:01 UTC
The point of reducing the size of an SC's drone bay too limit the use of either fighters or FBs (not both) was so that a supercarrier is FORCED to run with support. It still isn't, but it certainly helps. I for one am more than glad too now have a setup tat isn't SUPERCAP BLOB EVARYTING!
Dr'MeTaL
Taranis Innovations
#11 - 2011-11-16 07:00:15 UTC
Eowyani wrote:

They are going to have enough issues as it is with the new T3 BC as we can’t hit them but they can hit us very hard.



am i the only one that loled at this?

i though sc's were supposed to be like dreads. BIG ship killers. not bs,bc killers. and i think it should be pretty well know by now that bs/bc fleets get rofled by supers. the new bc' are no different other than even less of a tank.

short of completly out running fighter bombers the only ships small and fast enough are hac's. IF they are sig tanked. thats been my problem with sc's. is you need like 50 AB hacs with logi and the hope the super pilot has no backup. just to take one down. in packs of 20 or more like ive seen them used is out of the question.

the fact that 20 sc's can run off a 200 ship bs+ support fleet is over powered. no matter how you look at it tanking a single super even with logi is near impossible. if you ask me another nerf for the fighter bombers is needed. and even better they shouldnt be able to use fighter bombers on sub cap like the DD weapon.

again. they are supposed to be capital killers. not the i win button. just using regular old fighters should be enough to fight sub caps. so yes having 20 fighters and fighter bombers would be fine as long as fighter bombers are nerfed.
Eowyani
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#12 - 2011-11-16 14:28:54 UTC
Now this is great we have a whole thread of people who don't fly SuperC. Anyway let me point out your fails and poor thinking.

mxzf wrote:
If the BS in your example is able to just warp to a cap ship and refit, what's to stop you from doing the same? Last time I checked you could swap out drones via the fitting service just as easily as a BS can swap out guns.

In fact, a SC should be even more likely to be around another cap ship than a BS will. 99% of the time, a BS won't have a cap ship there to refit off of. However, a SC should always be in the company of other cap ships, since it's a fleet ship in the first place. So your example of the BS being able to swap guns out is utter crap. You're asking for the equivalent of giving BSes another 8 highslots but only letting them online half of the guns at once.

No, your SoloPwnMobile won't be the same anymore. Tough, get over it, that's the point.


Yes we are likely to be near other Capitals in fact pretty much sure we will BUT if your in a SC you will need to carry additional fitting in your CorpH which meant no room for Fighters/Fighter Bombers... see your fail there? Good. I don’t want a "SoloPwnMobile" i just want a ship that fits its intended purpose killing BS, Capitals and structures.

Vincent Gaines wrote:
Where's your support fleet? I mean, just a frigate.


Bring a carrier with you; have them put FBs in the corp hanger. Refit as needed.

Holy **** carriers might be used as intended as capital logistics platforms. Someone slap me silly and call me sally.


No just no, a carrier is a Logistics support platform they also need to carry additional fuel, fittings and modules for fleets they can't devote all their CorpH to carrying around Fighters/Fighter Bombers.


Dr'MeTaL wrote:
am i the only one that loled at this?

i though sc's were supposed to be like dreads. BIG ship killers. not bs,bc killers. and i think it should be pretty well know by now that bs/bc fleets get rofled by supers. the new bc' are no different other than even less of a tank.

short of completly out running fighter bombers the only ships small and fast enough are hac's. IF they are sig tanked. thats been my problem with sc's. is you need like 50 AB hacs with logi and the hope the super pilot has no backup. just to take one down. in packs of 20 or more like ive seen them used is out of the question.

the fact that 20 sc's can run off a 200 ship bs+ support fleet is over powered. no matter how you look at it tanking a single super even with logi is near impossible. if you ask me another nerf for the fighter bombers is needed. and even better they shouldnt be able to use fighter bombers on sub cap like the DD weapon.

again. they are supposed to be capital killers. Not the I win button. Just using regular old fighters should be enough to fight sub caps. So yes having 20 fighters and fighter bombers would be fine as long as fighter bombers are nerfed.



First question have you tried the new BC against a SC? I'll assume not so here you go my findings.

The BC can hit a SC fairly hard so a nice group of them will be fairly painful (200 wasps will kill an elephant). Now I launched my 20 Fighters and set all of them on a Talos they hit them for sod all, now if they were on a resist tank then yes they will die unless they have ONE logi pilot repping them. Oh no we have a BC/C that can kill SC... Not really balanced.

So you say take all the uses of Fighter Bombers and Fighters away from a super is the answer to your "oh no I died to a supperC" issues? No how about this don't bring BS to kill a Super that’s stupid bring dreads and other SC. You don't see many people bringing Frigs and Cruisers to kill a BS gang...

I think that’s about it, now I’m sure all you none SC pilots will come back and think you have a new agreement but please save your time I can and will swat away all your pointless comments with facts. I made this thread for the Devs to see my findings and my thoughts after testing.

Eowyani
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#13 - 2011-11-16 14:47:22 UTC
Eowyani wrote:
Yes we are likely to be near other Capitals in fact pretty much sure we will BUT if your in a SC you will need to carry additional fitting in your CorpH which meant no room for Fighters/Fighter Bombers... see your fail there? Good. I don’t want a "SoloPwnMobile" i just want a ship that fits its intended purpose killing BS, Capitals and structures.


You missed the point. Super Carriers aren't intended to be killing BS, they're just supposed to be killing other Capitals and structures.

This entire thread is a big "working as intended" for the changes that are coming. They are SUPPOSED nerf Super Carriers and make them much less able to deal with sub-cap fleets. This is to require that you have a mixed force, not just a big fleet of supercaps to roll over everything.

And they stated in the devblog that this drone bay reduction is completely intentional, they don't want Super Carriers to just keep pulling drone after drone out forever.

Eowyani
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#14 - 2011-11-16 15:10:55 UTC
I think you may be wrong there I guess its a personal opinion i think Fighters were designed to kill BS therefore SC are ment to kill BS like Carriers can.

I don't want to pull out endless drone i agree 100% with you that we should not be able to use normal drones or sentrys. What I am saying is that we should be able to carry 20 Fighters and 20 Fighters Bombers so only one full load of each. This could have been done my making two bays Fighter and Fighter Bomber bay so that you can only take 20 of each and not 40 of one.

On a side note i would have still liked to use my Logistic drones so I could rep modules at the same time as repping a tower (i know i know carriers are ment to rep structures cause of there Triage thing but many SC and I rep towers its a fact).

Do you see what i am saying?
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#15 - 2011-11-16 17:22:42 UTC
While I can understand your viewpoint, wanting to be able to have a full wing of each fighters and bombers, I still don't agree with it. I agree that it would be nice for Super Carrier pilots to be able to hold both at the same time, I believe CCP is right in making it so you have to pick one type at a time.

The issue right now is that Super Carriers are just too versatile. They are too good at countering too many things on their own. The changes are designed to make them require other ships to work, rather than being solo ships. Yes, this will mess with the way some pilots use their ships, but I still think that CCP is doing the right thing with this.

Also, keep in mind that the Hel and Nyx are still keeping the ability to fit 30 fighters+bombers. Which is still almost two full wings if you don't have Carrier 5.

If you haven't read it yet, I suggest reading the related devblog to learn exactly why they are making all of these changes.