Player Features and Ideas Discussion

They aren't useful for PVP with the altered change proposal.

Now you have an expensive BS hull that either has normal weapons ranges, t2 resists, and a generous amount of utility highs or you have a sitting duck (unremote reppable, unmoving) but long ranged ship. Now, they *might* be usable as the first but then you've forced players to forego the bastion mechanic altogether in order to use them effectively for pvp. And as the second they are really, really unimpressive- no mobility, no remote reps, and the lack of a significant bonus to local reps means these things are just going to die even with the ranges they can engage in while bastioned. There is realistically only so much positioning you can gain even with a mjd because you will be still for an entire minute where your enemies will most likely not be.

This makes the price point vs ship utility rather skewed to the point that you probably don't want to use them at all for pvp. The resist profile from t2 resists is only so useful when your engagement range is so limited, that you may as well use a t1 hull that can outrange them and effectively trade ship for ship against them. And being a near exclusively local rep tanker with range but no mobility just means you'll be eaten alive while in bastion.

With the first round changes they were indeed insane for pve, but also had high potential for small and medium gang pvp- obviously large scale pvp and local reps don't really go together. Now the only place they'll be all that useful for pvp will be in alliance tournament-like environments.

Hmm... do I understand that marauders ">> as in better >>" than pirate battleships but harder to skill into?

well, there are rarely any marauder in incursion fleet tho because faction / pirate bs-es are just alot better and new changes will not make marauders more wanted in incursions either.

marauders are better than the pirate battleships - this is due to their versatility and damage projection ability, pirate battleships are t1.5 marauders - thus do not require the t2 skill prerequisites, while he multiple race skills do attribute to evening this out, they aren't the same thing - costs are very different when comparing the two.

they also handle very differently, marauders sport vast amounts of utility that the pirate hulls simply don't have, personally i despised marauders for incursions until the point that I learnt how to adapt to them and make em do what they're good at, and I have not been out classed by any pilot in a faction battleship since. marauder's prime is in versatility, once you've got a handle on that it's the keenest sword you'll ever own

go look at the concord notification for the first incursion beaten in eve, and the first name you'll see is mine, the reason your fleet commanders now do what they do is because those that worked at the same time i did, taught them to fly the way they do, and after all this time, your fleet compositions have not changed, pilots like phattecia and mikkaras handed you every thing you needed, pilots like hardin, ammzi, stephonUK and vendetta made it readily accessible, and all of you that took advantage of their work? well....haven't improved upon it much since - you're getting better ever so slightly at doing that single thing you do though, so i can credit you with that :)

just answer this: how often do you use compositions that aren't what you describe? how often have you seen people trying to refine what's being done? and do you know why? - I'll find the answers interesting....anyway,


my point being, I'm not making these statements without a basis in experience, I've been keeping an eye on fleet compositions and pilot behavior (in incursions particularly) for a long time. doing anything less, speaking with any less knowledge, would be a discredit to the efforts being made to expand our game - eve's development's worth far more effort than what i think ccp's put into compiling these recent hull changes, and my intention here, was to put forward points of consideration i think ccp skipped.

I'm wondering a litle bit about the short cycle time of the bastion mode. And if the bastion mode should use fuel... will a Marauder get a fuel hangar?

If Marauders are going to bridge the gap between sub capitals and capitals then you should include Advance Spaceship Command Level 4 to be included has a skill requirement and allow the extra agility of that skill be applied ONLY for the Marauder class hull.

Also the EHP is some what lacking considering it supposed to be a 'Mini-Dread', all hulls need an increase to health stats or else you still won't see much pvp (if any!) action out of this... besides the one or two ganks per week inside High Sec.

Tractor beam bonus plz :-) does not have to be as good as noctis, but a bit better.

Hmm pvp, how about this as a suggestion:
Modules takes 50% less damage when over heated in bastion mode.

True, it is good that they have time to unscrew things, potentially at least

Agreed it's a good idea to rebalance Marauder's resists more in-line with other T2 ships...

and the Bastion mode concept sound like a fun way of breathing new life into the Marauder ship class...

>> however <<

please don't make them better for PvP at the expense of their PvE capabilities. Many people spent a long time training to fly Marauders with the understanding that they're geared towards PvE. They don't want to suddenly find they are now totally useless for it.

the idea of making Marauders MJD specialisits when in 'regular' [non-bastion] mode is terrible.., not practical for local travel, ie. navigating say, 50km to an object on-grid. It would lead to nasty dual-propulsion MJD+MWD ships that waste vital mid-slots.

Most impotantly of all, please don't remove all tanking bonuses on the Marauders hulls [as the latest update suggests], a boost to webs doesn't compensate for the removal of decent active tank when fighting multiple BS.

Hopefully any changes made to Marauders are more sympathetic and subtle then is currently being put forward.

Maybe a compromise can be reached by giving Marauders some sort of bonus to tanking, webs and damage output when in bastion mode at the expense of manouverability and the inability to warp or be remote-assisted, a kind of compromise between the first and second ideas that have been put forward by the devs.

It would be a shame to brutally shred it's original role and mutate / repurpose it into a new untested PvP niche. (there's enough PvP ships out there as it is)

i still still don't get why remote reps need to be locked out even when you give a bonus to local reps and resists. The marauder in any of the mentioned states current, vlossmail1, vabomination2 are not so powerful that remote reps should be locked out even given the 60 ew immunity. It doesn't have the HP to make the lockout reasonable like the dreads do, and it's cap drainable so 1 heavy neut = dead armor reper.

Leave RR in and lets see how it gets used if it's op and everyone starts using it with local and remote reps then put in a negative remote rep modifier.


again the entire problem is the XLASB x2.

Can we just make ASB a 1 per ship fitting rule already. Oversized ASBx2 on any ship makes it broken, and AAR aren't even comparable in effectiveness due to the 1 per ship rules.