Player Features and Ideas Discussion

So, couple of gripes with your post.

For a start you claim that CCP didn't anticipate how changing this ship would be viewed by the player base. Since their first iteration changed it very little, and the response on their second proposal from the PvE crowd that actually uses the thing has been echoing Ytterbium with "we don't need webs thanks but no" it's pretty clear that they do understand that people, even if it's not a majority, do use these ships for PvE.

Second, you reference the "real world" definition of "Marauder". Ship balancing by dictionary is bad policy. By the real world definition of "Marauder" any ship could be classified as one. Now looking at your points:

• I'm going to (more or less) ignore the "remove the cool new bonuses" bit because that's down to personal preference. Personally I like the idea of deploying battleships.
• The web bonus is only very marginally useful to PvE and is mostly used for swatting smaller ships in PvP making them more or less ineffective against any ship with such a bonus.
• Light Drones! But then what's the point of the web bonus?
• Adding a salvage bonus treads a little too heavily on the toes of the Noctis. This is supposed to be a viable option, not a replacement to the Noctis.
• "Spider Tanking god-battleship" is, I think, still a concern. Just waving a magic wand over the hull and removing all its old downsides just turns it into a Battleship sized HAC.
• The problem with the T2 resists vs the repair bonus is that they both benefit PvE, just different types. T2 resists are better for Incursions and Wormholes, a local repair bonus is better for Missions and Scan-sites.

As to the whole "make a new line of ships" argument, you do know the CSM have already seen at least rough passes of Bastion, right? Plus the first pass of Bastion was rather well received by the PvE community, it was the people who want this ship to be far better than it was going to be for PvP that objected. (aka the same crowd that cried about the removal of the web bonuses from the Kronos and Paladin)

I think my biggest problem with this is that it's nothing new and doesn't even feel like a complete proposal. All of this has been suggested before, generally multiple times and none of it is non-controversial.

I don't think a Marauder will ever replace the Noctis for the general populace, the later coming after the previous for starters kinda makes that argument moot. But the Marauder is the alternative to re-docking your Pirate BS or Navy BS and returning to your mission to salvage. Those that bothered to hit Multitasking 3 (or 5 if they're running an Auto -Targetter) can vacuum as they go, or not have to Multi-Box.

I'm not saying I want tractors to 96km, but at least a healthy 60km would be nice to cover this proposed MJD strategy.

For the solo mission runner, the Marauder class should be the Apex ship.

Ok, I totally misread salvaging as tractor bonus. Tractor bonus I think needs to stay (at least), or be buffed to 150% (preferably).

Yes, no salvage bonus, my bad

But again, for solo missioning, a CNR with a little Noctis is exactly why I trained for the Golem,.. That and who doesn't like to utter "Torpedoes in the water!" In a terrible Ruskie accent, eh? Komrad?

i believe the original idea of the marauder was so that you can salvage loot and do the mission at the same time. This was the reason for such a long training time, but now with the intro of noctis, the newer players started to question the reason for long training time for marauder when other ships can do the same and better. I think it is only fair that the marauder get a nice boost to its salvage + tractor beams to keep the tradition.

BUAHAHAHAHA xD

I lol'd. Hard.

Yes, the tractor bonus needs to stay and I could certainly get behind seeing it buffed a bit, especially if the MJD bonus stays as-is. Overall it's just not a bonus that has any real effect in combat outside of PvE, it's something for after combat is over.



I think you about hit the nail on the head with why people want the tractor bonus to go. They're PvP people who see it as a "bonus slot" that could be used for something "more useful" (to them).

I don't think CCP is actually counting it as an active bonus though since it has no meaningful effect on PvP. The MJD bonus is, essentially, the actual bonus along with the Bastion Module.

As to the exact nature of the bonuses, the Noctis should still be a strictly better salvage ship IMO, since that's its role. Similarly the tractor bonus and any hypothetical salvage bonus should stay as role bonuses and not really be factored to heavily into overall balance since they have zero PvP use and not everyone's going to want to make use of them.



If anything this is an argument FOR a salvage bonus since you're unlikely to rig the ship for salvage or have as many salvagers as on a Noctis meaning you're giving players the option of a meaningful tradeoff.

you know, in reply to all the definition posts and etc... i just want to say that if ccp decides ti change the marauders name, and/or if they decide to change the marauders role dramatically.... it would be a bad decision to entirely alienate the fanbase of this ship, that is to say, for all of those who took all the time to skill into it are going to be disappointed if it becomes unusable or changes roles completely.

So many people who think L4s are the only form of PVE in the whole game.

Indeed, I know for sure that mine and friends PvE alt are not on eveboard. Across 5 Account, there are 4 Marauders Pilots (some of them can even fly more than one race marauder).




Agree, the "pve integrated bonus" should not going to be weighted at all if they don't interact with PvP

The reason, a point i made some page back:
CCP might consider that Marauder skill is very intensive, not very diffused and advertised as PvE "top ship". therefore we are not speaking about "XYrace Battleship" or "XYrace Cruiser", people planned to fly a marauder and invested in a specific training path that lead to a single Ship. "compromising" one of this ships leave little to no alternative (not a multiple ships class as BS o Cruiser, yet not a prerequisite to go further).

This is not about "CCP ruined my ship" or "i don't want my SP touched", it's about EvE skill planning. Altering a ship play style it's "ok" during rebalance, like some bonus swap, EW switch ecc.. Drastically changing something that fit a precise purpose with no alternative it's a no go. I'm sure CCP can (and so did) collect data regard numbers, use and location of actual marauders.

The "perfect" idea, pve-wise, would be that the rebalance leaves PvE performance at least at the same level they were before the fix. For me the first version, as much as work were still needed on the bastion, was a closer iteration to this concept.

NOTE: i'm not saying "OMG!?! i want my sp back!!", just that as feedback the first version was more the right direction to work on.

Random idea for a pretty cool siege bonus: mods dont take damage when overloaded.

Every new CCP idiotism idea is rebalanceing ?

My favored maraduer stats is, their ridiculous low sensor strenghts.
11 for Vargur ? :P Megalol Nice PVP stat for dumbs.

"We also believe that designing them for a very specific activity doesn't fit the emergent nature of EVE, and as such we wish to expand their use to PvP as well." ROTFL

But now the new idiotism of CCP, create bastion modules for them aka. Siege mode:

" When in bastion mode, Marauder speed is set to 0 m/s, mass is increased by a factor of 10, cannot warp. Also receives a weapons timer that prevents station docking or gate jumping. Weapon time should not require the user to drop weapon safeties in high-sec"

This is the new ISK sinking idea ? Easy targets for SBs and fast billions sinking to refuse bin?
Bravo, the CCP can suprise me with their new and new dumb ideas.

Easy to say, go with this ship to pvping and when you lost an over 1billions value of ship u will see, which is the fast ISK sink and how can lost easier your money.
It is no coincidence that why CCP removed the plus tanking and resist abilities.
The full stationary marauder idea its a stupidity, easy prey for SBs and the users why would to use their easy destructable, high values unuseable ships on battlefronts ? If they want to make to "PVP compatibility" make lower marauder prices, boost their sensor strenght, because their strenght is ridiculous in present days and would be same without bastion mode too, give to them special bonuses, not this crap bastionary idiotism, where the ships stand at battlefront with 0m/s and easy prey for concentrated attacks.
The capital ships can die very fast in battle with much better HP in siege mode like as a BS and their prices not realy higher than a marauder.
A kronos is 1.1b such as Archon.