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New dev blog: Introducting the EVE Launcher

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Neo Agricola
Gallente Federation
#241 - 2011-11-11 10:01:22 UTC
CCP Cascade wrote:

What feature would improve things for you?


Since you asked:

my vision of a perfect launcher:

1. Single point of Entry: (I do have more than two accounts, so i have some eve installations on my pc)
=> Select which Character (!) you want to log in => launcher starts eve and you type in your PW and your Character is there.
=> Dream: (optional) Single sign on: i log on (UN/PW which are not the same as any EVE UN/PW) to the launcher and have all my chars available. i press one and the launcher startes eve and logs in the right char.
=> only downloading 1 time the patch to patch all installations (or better find a way to have only one installation for multiaccounting)
=> Copy setting from 1 Character to another (overview, Windowposition, marketwindow a.s.o.)
=> Downloading patches in Backround
=> posibility to distribute patches from 1 pc in your homenetwork to another (so if you have more than 1 PC you can config the Launcher that it askes the "ServerPC" in your homenetwork for an update!) => reduces trafik for those who dont have a big fancy internet conetion...
=> Change Settings for 1 Character (language, switch Autotarget = 0, a.s.o.)
=> Overview for all my char. Name, currently skilling X till date, Wallet, Docked in Y , Account expires on Date (or in x Days)
=> posibility to clear cach for Account / Char / installation

2. Informationwindow (optional,=> you turn it on/off and you can configure it as you like it)
=> Headline for the last 10 Dev Blogs
=> Headline for the last 10 Dev Forum Posts

make as many things optional as possible, so you dont force someone to use it.

Just my point of view.

DISSONANCE is recruiting Members: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=706442#post706442 Black-Mark Alliance Recruitment: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=6710
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#242 - 2011-11-11 11:08:19 UTC
CCP Topknot wrote:
Tippia wrote:
…soooo. Manual patching?

Question back: What is it that you like about the manual patchers? We would really like to get rid of manual patchers eventually because it would simplify our build process a lot and like Mandrake said, give us a better environment to push out smaller updates. But I would really like to hear the benefits you see in the manual patchers.


Here it is.......

I have EVE installed on 2 PC's & 2 laptops.

With manual patching, I can download the patch once and transfer it to all machines.

Without manual patching I would have to download the patch 4 times.

I can't believe that you could not work that one out :)
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#243 - 2011-11-11 11:31:05 UTC
DaDutchDude wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I'm not against supporting patching multiple installs of the EVE client, and supporting it for 3 will probably be just as easy as supporting it for 30. However, some of these requests sound like the botting community is asking for CCP to support patching all their bot clients in one go, and I'd rather have CCP fight botting instead of making life easier for people who run bots.


So everyone with multiple accounts are botting ?

Don't be an idiot
Desmont McCallock
#244 - 2011-11-11 12:52:45 UTC
As many others have already posted, my launcher.exe fails to launch.

EVE runs on Win7 x64.

My question is, does the code in launcher looks up the path where the client is installed or do you have hardcoded a specific path?
Crucis Cassiopeiae
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#245 - 2011-11-11 14:44:36 UTC
Desmont McCallock wrote:
As many others have already posted, my launcher.exe fails to launch.

EVE runs on Win7 x64.

My question is, does the code in launcher looks up the path where the client is installed or do you have hardcoded a specific path?


i have that problem too...

Vote Issler Dainze for CSM7! http://community.eveonline.com/council/voting/Vote.asp?c=470 
Seraphim000
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#246 - 2011-11-11 18:16:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Seraphim000
+ Streamlined update process. No more jumping in and out of the game five times after not playing for a while just to get updates.
+ Possibility of being able to read patch notes / devblogs during the update.
- Extra click to get to the game. Can't log into a character straight from the patcher.
- Poor support for the Multiple Accounts + Windows 7 scenario, where we need one icon in our taskbar for each client. Adding a pre-game executable causes it to create a new taskbar icon for the game. Right now, you just pin the game exe directly and skip the splash screen exe. We'll have to skip this patcher as well. Will the game client still check for updates itself?
- Devs talking about having the patcher running constantly to do continual checks for updates. Background updaters are a SIN, please do not commit.
- Devs talking about removing manual patchers. I don't have much bandwidth, and there are three people that play at my house. Without manual patches, it'd take us three times as long to update. It already takes long enough on big patches.


So this patcher is kinda nifty, but useless to me until it functions properly for multi-account win7 users.
Taureau
Doomheim
#247 - 2011-11-12 02:32:21 UTC
ORCACommander wrote:
looks good but i don't want it. when i click the shortcut for my game i want to go into the game not into a cd autorun menu.


EXACTLY!

Cry Focus your manpower on important tasks CCP!

.
Dareth Meroul
OMRE
#248 - 2011-11-12 10:34:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Dareth Meroul
Taureau wrote:
ORCACommander wrote:
looks good but i don't want it. when i click the shortcut for my game i want to go into the game not into a cd autorun menu.


EXACTLY!

Cry Focus your manpower on important tasks CCP!

I can't really agree with either point. Allow me to explain why.

The way I'm understanding things in a now vs. proposed launcher/updater perspective, is that it seems the two biggest things that the launcher/updater seems to cut out are:

  • The quite annoying experience of waiting for a patch to download while the client is still up
  • The inevitable delay and annoyance of having wait for the client sign-in to start, to then have to wait for it to exit or restart when applying an update, only to have to wait for it to start again

This puts the launcher/updater addition in a net win for me, with that alone. Having to restart and waiting for video mode shifts & such is quite annoying. At least the launcher would give me something to do in the meantime. With the auto-updating feature added to this – assuming it's at least relatively smart about background downloading when spare bandwidth & CPU are available – the times I'd even have to content myself with the launcher-provided distractions would be reduced to a minimum.

This is why I don't see how this is comparable to a CD Autorun menu, or how it's not important. After all, everyone who plays EVE launches EVE, while most will never become significantly involved in crowdsourcing or possibly even in commentary of it. And, there are many pieces to the game and community that is EVE, so some people at CCP have to work on the basic infrastructure that's not exactly sexy and doesn't garner the attention that other things do.

In real life, someone has to see to the trash, the sewer system, and the seamless function of utilities, and someone needs to watch over the basic interactions of the playerbase with the EVE client as well as see to its maintenance and a more seamless functioning. The launcher/updater project seems kind of like many of the other conveniences of life in that we often don't put a priority on before we have them. But after we've experienced them, usually we'd really rather not do without.

Or have I somehow misunderstood your point and the one you quoted?


Here's some additional (probably excessive, but hopefully accurate) detail on now vs. with launcher/updater, to clarify my perspective:
Quote:
Current scenario (Windows)
  • Launch EVE sign-n page
  • Discover update is needed {small or big patch}
  • Small patch: Confirm download of patch; wait for download; client restart / patch apply confirm; wait for exit; wait for patch to be applied; wait for EVE sign-in to launch again
  • - or -
  • Big patch: Confirm download of pre-update patch; wait for download or confirmation of direct exit, depending; exit confirm; wait for exit; wait for apply to start; apply pre-update patch; wait for apply to finish; wait for updater to start; confirm that updater may download update; download full patch/update; confirm that updater permitted to apply update; wait for update to apply; acknowledge update completion, allowing optional cleanup; launch EVE sign-in again

Scenario with launcher
  • Start launcher
  • Discover update is needed
  • Small or Big patch: Read stuff in launcher or wherever while: update is downloaded; update interrupts to confirm permission to apply update; update apply; wait for finish; launcher indicates readiness; click 'Launch' or 'Play' to launch EVE sign-in screen
Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#249 - 2011-11-12 12:49:58 UTC
the issue with this is that to run multiple installs you have to run multiple launchers.

im yet to see a good reason as to why i need 6 launchers to run 6 installs.

this needs the option to only run when patches are to be installed, and it must come with the option to not clean up downloaded data. i do not need to download the same thing 6 times when 1 is enough.

OMG when can i get a pic here
Xiang Feilong
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#250 - 2011-11-12 23:06:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Xiang Feilong
Xercodo wrote:
I say that to solve a lot of the issues people are having in this thread you guys should do the following:

-Client management: 1, 2,3....,n, And Sisi and Deucy
-Streamlining of login and character select: since the news will be on character selected AND the launcher maybe remove it from the character select and clean things a bit. Move the account login to the launcher (with the ability to have as many fields as there are clients) and put character select over on top of the current login screen with 3D animation. The new character select screen can be built in a minimalist manner that compliments the animated background without them killing each other too much.
-Allow for download of the patch and export/import of patch data so that offline installation can be done once one comp has downloaded it it can be transferred to all the others to do an offline install without multiple downloads.

This will not only make multi boxing an officially supported "feature" but also make it easier for everyone to do. Like many have stated integrating SiSi into this launcher can also help greatly increase SiSi test participation (maybe have the SiSi button all blinky when a test is going on that week). The redesign of the login and character select screen should remove the need for extra clicks by instead of making the launcher an extra step, being integrated as an existing step without destroying the experience of the 3D animated login screen we have today. Making login launcher-side and character select client-side can also be a push towards switching characters without client restarts.

To maximize player information retention and to make sure they read it make the headlines MASSIVE with the summaries very short and minimized. The titles both in size and wording need to get people's attention. Separate EVE News, devblogs, and the RP news so that players can get exactly what they want too without being cluttered up by news they arent interested in. Not many hardcore 0.0 players care what latest controversy Quafe is caught up in or whatever. But the section should still be included for the sake of the RP bunnies.

And while I'm talking about RP, making the RP news open up into a faked news website that looks a lot like nytimes.com but designed by The Scope or Amarr Certified News with Quafe ads and stuff would be awesome for the immersion of a RPer. I LOVED the feel of the Quantum Rise trailer. The beginning had me feeling like i was watching the EVE version of CNBC.


I was about to compile my thoughts on it, but then i stumbled upon this excellent post that says all of what i think about this introduction of a launcher. I certainly approve of the implementation of a launcher for EVE that actualy patches the client before starting it. It's obvious, it's long overdue, and it's gonna help patching more frequently. And, might i add, as for the people who don't understand the pros of such a system... I don't know what to tell you, except that you're a bunch freakish off-worlders coming from another time.

So ok i'm all for it. Now you'll have to keep to your own words that it has to be as simple as possible. And that will be no mean feat because as a matter of fact there's not a lot of choices for you here i fear. Either that launcher is so minimalist that it barely appears in the form of a filling bar if there is a patch (right before the splash screen), or it tries to accomplish a maximum of actions by itself to facilitate the remaining logging processes. And as i see it you've gone this second path more or less. Well, be prepared then cuz there's a lot of stuff we'd like this launcher to assume automatically, as this fellow capsuleer resumed in the above quote.

In a nutshell : this launcher definitely has to be able to manage TQ and SISI, manage as many accounts as possible on the same PC (or even network?) in one go for both patching and executing, and allow the player to actually log in from here so that the only thing left once ingame is to select a character. The number of mouse clicks stays the same and everyone's fingers are happy.

For the whole "configuration" of the launcher the box maniacs would have to go through, they would need to do it only once if the program keeps it all saved. And to be honest box adepts shouldn't be afraid of a bit of tweaking in the launcher if it's supposed to help'em big time afterward.

To sum it up : i'm quite happy to see a launcher coming to EVE, now make it excellent (and flawless eventually).
Luckytania
Bullets of Justice
#251 - 2011-11-13 01:25:17 UTC
Just wanted to jump in as a member of the multiple machines, multiple accounts, multiple monitors club.

Until you have that scenario handled, this must not go live / be mandatory.

--

Devs, you've done good by discussing work in progress and soliciting feedback.

Now, don't repeat chronic past CCP behavior of ignoring the feedback provided.
Dawnel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#252 - 2011-11-13 07:56:55 UTC
My voice to the launcher-free eve.

I don't want to watch some launcher ads and add an extra click to get my client up, I can already see the news feed in the login screen. Eve will look more like a cheap Korean mmorpg with their launchers. I also run multiple instances, although I use just one install and run them all from it. I also don't get what is wrong with having to keep the game running while patching.

When I click the main executable of a game I want to launch the main game, not a launcher.

The launcher cannot be mandatory.
Sherksilver
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#253 - 2011-11-13 16:08:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Sherksilver
Hmmm. Wish I could say that I would like this - but to me it will just be a major PITA.
I run multiple clients, and having to do extra clicks each and every time just to get past the launcher - ugh, more clicking...

Def joining the optional club. I hate game launchers...
CCP Mandrake
C C P
C C P Alliance
#254 - 2011-11-14 13:52:48 UTC
Just send out an update to the launcher, mostly just fixes but i also added a "only show launcher if update" options, i.e. if you check this option, you will only see the launcher window when the eve client needs to be updated.

But there where a lot of things posted here in this thread i didn't expect that needs some consideration, the goal of the launcher is not only to be convenient for for us when we send out updates, but more importantly it's supposed to be convenient for you, the players.

The content of the launcher window, ie. ads and such where just a placeholder, nothing has been decided as to what should be in there. But it seems pretty clear that it's not popular to fill it with "buy something" ads. Perhaps we should display something community related there that might be useful or interesting to someone waiting to enter the game. (balls, i just lost the game, again)

Static patches, also named fallback patches are something we where hoping to phase out, apparently that is not happening as a lot more players than expected use them.

i haven't read all of the 200+ posts in this thread, but as soon as i have, i'll do another post.

stuff
Rhinanna
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#255 - 2011-11-14 14:17:52 UTC
Simple what to add, I'll even write the psuedo-code for you :)

If (user.sex == male){
If (user.age >= 18){ Show quafe girl doing dance }
else { Show Cartoon }
else{
If (user.age <= 18){ Show MyLittlePony }
else { Show MyLittlePony (the one where they all die) }
}




Yes, I'm a bad person ;)

-The sword is only as sharp as the one who wields it! Other names: Drenzul (WoT, WoW, Lineage 2, WarH, BloodBowl, BSG, SC2 and lots more) 
Raid'En
#256 - 2011-11-14 14:24:39 UTC
CCP Mandrake wrote:

Static patches, also named fallback patches are something we where hoping to phase out, apparently that is not happening as a lot more players than expected use them..

for your patch issues, how about adding an option to put the download content on some folder, so that people who have multiple instlation can simply copy/paste it to another machine, and manually install it by launching some exe and saying to it that files needed are here ?
Altolinchen
Disneys Empire
#257 - 2011-11-14 14:53:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Altolinchen
Hey CCP,
I've got a few questions about that launcher..

Will I still be able to launch a client multiple times ? ( for example for multi boxing ?) ( You might now diskspace isn't that much with a SSD ... Windows takes 30GB EVE takes 20GB ( sisi etc. ) some other application suites and you're 128GB/160GB are full. )
Lucky me I've got an SSD as you mention at that post :D
But sadly I've got only a real slow Internet connection.
That's why I'm using 3x ADSL with about 150KB/s at load balancing. Well if I've got several EvE Clients open there are no problem's cause my router ( Astaro Gateway) splits the session to a different Internet connections so I can play pretty good without having a bad ping etc.

Now my Question about the "new" Launcher and downloading stuff...
Will it still be possible to update a single client by using multiple IP's? Like today ?
So it's possible to get the patches fast?

And another question about launching a few games the same time with that launcher - only if it's possible.

Right now I'm launching the same .exe up to 4-6 times and than chaining the the graphic options - so at max. there are 2 EvE Clients running at the same GPU ( got 3x NV 465GTX ) is this still possible?

Or will you add an option for multi boxing users ?

Well most people I know, who play EvE have at least 2 monitors and run it multi-boxing with at least 2 accounts.
To tell the truth I know less people with one account than people with 2 or 3 or even more.

There must be something what can be done for them to make it easier with overview / settings in general like GPU etc. if they are multi boxing.

How about if you got 4 accounts for example. All are active and paid. Each of them got 3 Characters.
Now you're able to connect them ( CCP can see they are registered for the same person etc. ).
And now you open the launcher and see all of you're 12 characters and you're able to choose which character you want to play. Because you've got 4 accounts you're able to log in with 4 characters of you choice at the same time, like today with 4 accounts, but you can even pick more than one of an account so you could log in for example:
2 characters of account 1
0 of account 2
1 of account 3
1 of account 4
so it's 4 at total.
If you stop paying for a account than those 3 characters of that account won't be playable until you resubscribe.


Oh and another thing came up my mind..
If you have patched client 1 of 2 for example and now are playing and client 2 is downloading the update.. After client 2 has finished and will start patching client 1 will be still closed like today ( if you're ingame with client 1 ).


And another thing..
How about showing skills etc. like eve mon at the launcher - this could work api based so you don't have to log in. That would be pretty awesome. And the ingames Mails please and after entering your account name and password you're able to answer them without going to eve gate or entering the game.
EvE Mon, EFT and EvEHQ will still have their use for skill plans / fittings / pos management etc.

Jita is a very dangoures place - concord killed me like 15 times today!
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#258 - 2011-11-14 15:35:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Salpun
Still got issues with Win7-64 bit with internet explorer 8.0.760117514 Updated Versions: 0 got a down load message but no update wizard loaded.

A Win7- 32 bit computer with the same verision of explorer loads the update wizard just fine and patchs and loads smoothly. Links in the new version Specificly costomer support do not load.

Can all the functionality be added to the current EVE online main log in screen?
The funtion of the new launcher and the current sisi launcher needs to be clarified as the Sisi launcher still has more functionality.

While the launcher would be a good replacement for the long blank load time betwean short cut static loading EVE picture and the non static log in screen on older non SSD computers you would need to include an updated EVE letterhead on the launcher and a progress bar for loading where the update progress bar is when it switches modes. Then only switch when the rendering engines are full loaded and running.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
mkint
#259 - 2011-11-14 16:28:21 UTC
CCP Mandrake wrote:

Static patches, also named fallback patches are something we where hoping to phase out, apparently that is not happening as a lot more players than expected use them.

Out of curiosity, isn't that data you guys should have already? Shouldn't you have a count of how many times a fallback patch has been downloaded? I know that doesn't tell you how many clients were updated off of each download, but at least it's a start.

Would be interesting if there was a little run-once-only script in the client that told the server how that particular install was updated, and track how many specific clients are updated in which ways. Not saying that data should be used as a deciding factor, but hundreds of people had to update their video cards for the hideous new portraits, if all 3 people who use fallback patches posted here, well, that would be interesting data.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
CCP Mandrake
C C P
C C P Alliance
#260 - 2011-11-14 17:19:07 UTC
Finally, after serveral cups of coffee, i've finished reading all posts and got some pointers going forward making the launcher.


1. The launcher shouldn't start up unless there is an update. I've currently added an option in the settings menu that makes the launcher not start up unless the eve client needs to be updated (version 0.22), but i'm seriously considering making that the default behavior and not requiering you to mark a checkbox to get that behavior.
We did get a bit ahead of our selves here, the way we envisioned the launcher was to be able to type in your username and password into the launcher, select your character and enter the game directly when you hit play. We don't however have access to this behavior just yet, so until we can get that working, the launcher should be optional.

2. Less ads. Instead, links to forums, tip of the day type of thing or something more community oriented.

3. Patching multiple clients. This one is a bit tricky, because the launcher is embedded into the client, it can only update that client. it can't update other eve clients because it doesn't know about them.
It seems to me that there is a need for improving the sisi launcher so that it could manage all your eve clients and not just the test clients, can't promise the ui will be made any prettier though.

4. Regular old static patches will have to be supported until the end of time.

5. Launcher needs a clear eve cache button.

6. Be able to set the download directory. Currently the launcher and all our patching tech download install/patch data to your default drive, usually named C:
Being able to specify where you want the large amounts of data to be downloaded to can save some bother if your C: drive is running low on space.

stuff