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[Rubicon] Marauder rebalancing

First post First post First post
Author
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#2981 - 2013-09-06 22:25:07 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
I'm still leaning towards the base Marauder hull being geared towards long range sniping and MJD use... while the Bastion mode is geared towards close range fighting and heavy tank and tracking. Of course you could always do a combination of the two where you jump to range and snipe all the way in, switching to Bastion mode when they get in your face.


Ditto, Marauder's role should be to be good both at long and short range, meaning standard and bastion stats respectively. On the move, they snipe, on the spot, they facemelt.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Stirlsha
Tranquility Tavern
Pandemic Horde
#2982 - 2013-09-06 22:34:54 UTC
I'm still trying to figure out why a Golem with cruise missiles needs webifier bonuses. I'm not saying that it shouldn't, I'm just lost as to why any thought process would lead to this. For the love of baby Joveus can someone explain it to me?
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2983 - 2013-09-06 22:42:53 UTC
Stirlsha wrote:
I'm still trying to figure out why a Golem with cruise missiles needs webifier bonuses. I'm not saying that it shouldn't, I'm just lost as to why any thought process would lead to this. For the love of baby Joveus can someone explain it to me?



Why would a rail Kronos or Tach paladin...


....they don't either.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#2984 - 2013-09-06 22:49:37 UTC
Striscio wrote:

First, there are focus complain based on the class name. Sub-cap Industrial ships lack any productivity use, they are hauler, closer to IRL meaning of logistic than industrial. While EvE-Logistic do close to no logistic work at all (even in military sense there are quite distant). So.. not really a point.


It's a recurring problem in EVE, but that doesn't mean it isn't a valid point, especially as 'combat' vs 'attack' ships are further attempting to clarify the idea that there's something to these ship-type names.

So, without getting too derailed, how about:

T1 sub-capital haulers - Commercial Vessels. Or Cargo Ships.
T2 remote-repair cruisers - Tender Ships. (Since, you know, that's more or less what they are, only in real(ish)-time during combat.)
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#2985 - 2013-09-06 23:15:11 UTC
remove the stupid web bonus it is completly unneeded 10-13km web range why would any marauder fight at that short range?
for pve it is hardly needed at all
for pvp you have buddies to help with webbing

so give them something else
smartbomb bonus ?:O
+50% dmg/lvl^^ so no frig pilot wants to get close :D

Cade Windstalker
#2986 - 2013-09-06 23:21:41 UTC
Naomi Knight wrote:
remove the stupid web bonus it is completly unneeded 10-13km web range why would any marauder fight at that short range?
for pve it is hardly needed at all
for pvp you have buddies to help with webbing

so give them something else
smartbomb bonus ?:O
+50% dmg/lvl^^ so no frig pilot wants to get close :D



The web bonus is more useful against Frigates.

Also having things come within web-range is very common in PvE situations, whether it's missions, incursions, or scan-sites.

Personally I'm not a fan of the web-bonus because it's a tad over-powered against smaller targets compared to a Target Painter or Web-Range bonus.
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#2987 - 2013-09-06 23:31:00 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Naomi Knight wrote:
remove the stupid web bonus it is completly unneeded 10-13km web range why would any marauder fight at that short range?
for pve it is hardly needed at all
for pvp you have buddies to help with webbing

so give them something else
smartbomb bonus ?:O
+50% dmg/lvl^^ so no frig pilot wants to get close :D



The web bonus is more useful against Frigates.

Also having things come within web-range is very common in PvE situations, whether it's missions, incursions, or scan-sites.

Personally I'm not a fan of the web-bonus because it's a tad over-powered against smaller targets compared to a Target Painter or Web-Range bonus.

against frigs you have 5 small drones ,and in pve you can easily mjd out and then kill them from range
i cant see why do you need web eff bonus at all, is it usefull? yup ,is it needed? nope
there are probably a dozen other bonus which would be better suited for these ships
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2988 - 2013-09-06 23:41:54 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Kelarc Keld wrote:
Bastion absolutely needs a huge damage buff to be wort it.


or it just needs to have less drawbacks.

The drawbacks were worth the advantages when the 30% resists were part of the package in my opinion.
Maxxor Brutor
Borderline Procurements
#2989 - 2013-09-06 23:53:44 UTC
Metal Icarus wrote:
w/e you do, giving them the same web bonus feels like homogenization. Making them similar in that fashion really takes away from their racial flavor.


This, why not just let the Kronos keep the web bonus and give the others something different?
Dave Stark
#2990 - 2013-09-07 00:00:20 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Kelarc Keld wrote:
Bastion absolutely needs a huge damage buff to be wort it.


or it just needs to have less drawbacks.

The drawbacks were worth the advantages when the 30% resists were part of the package in my opinion.


no it was still a "click here for a 1bn isk+ lossmail" button.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2991 - 2013-09-07 00:21:18 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Kelarc Keld wrote:
Bastion absolutely needs a huge damage buff to be wort it.


or it just needs to have less drawbacks.

The drawbacks were worth the advantages when the 30% resists were part of the package in my opinion.


no it was still a "click here for a 1bn isk+ lossmail" button.

Depends on how you used it. The locking in place being the only real drawback means using it in places that need scanned rather than anoms or belts. With a boost to sensor strength, which it somewhat needs anyways, this should provide you with some time if you are paying attention and don't let another cycle start.
Rexxorr
Perkone
Caldari State
#2992 - 2013-09-07 00:28:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Rexxorr
Through the eyes of a solo lvl 4 mission runner...



Bastion mode



Increases shield and armor repair amount by 100%:

Nice ! I feel bad for the forum poster who loses a marauder in pve after this, the Forum savages will eat him alive.



Extends all large turret falloff and optimal by 25%:

Better damage app, OK good.



Increases all large missile max velocity by 25%:

Less wasted ammo is always a plus.



Has a cycle time of 60 seconds:

OK, Timing when to bastion, an when to come out, can make it work most likely.
Last npc ship dead and your stuck for the next 59 sec....



When in bastion mode, Marauder is immune to EW but cannot be remote assisted in any way:

HaHa, sweet death to perma jamming, tracking disruption and sensor damping.






Hull Changes




7.5% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level:

Webs, meh, The web range is too short, When a elite frig is close enough two 90% webs
are still not enough for large guns on pali to hit , unless a once in a blue-moon lucky shot happens.
The 90% webs do help a flight of drones dispatch elite frigs a bit faster. Best off using some other
useful module rather than webs.



100% bonus to range and velocity of tractor beams:

Tractor beams on a marauder are a quality of life improvement, more range plz, does not have to be
as good as noctis but just a bit better. Yes Plz.



Reducing their drone bays as they are primarily meant to deliver damage through their main weapon system:

I need just enough room for a flight of lights an salvage drones.



Increasing their maximum targeting range:

I like it.


70% reduction in Micro Jump Drive reactivation delay:

MJD hopping around sounds ok, give me a ship angle indicator relative to the tactical display
and I can plot a two jump move with my needed angle and land right on top of that jumpgate 77km away.



They also are receiving full Tech2 resists:

I can live with that, The Osmon marauder ganking gangs will need to bring a few more tornado's.



As a final combo bonus, we also are changing Target Painter cycle time from 10 to 5 seconds:

My Golem is going to make sweet sweet hot sticky luv to you.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#2993 - 2013-09-07 00:29:13 UTC
Go to bed features & ideas discussion forum, its late.
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2994 - 2013-09-07 00:47:35 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Go to bed features & ideas discussion forum, its late.

No even though it is almost 2am I am at work and bored.

And the post.

The lock ranges here are not that great given there ability to jump and engage from 100km.

These could be improved on the hulls or this could be another bonus built into the bastion module. 20 to 25 percent would fit quite well with the general range increasing nature of the bastion module.
Cade Windstalker
#2995 - 2013-09-07 00:54:43 UTC
Alticus C Bear wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Go to bed features & ideas discussion forum, its late.

No even though it is almost 2am I am at work and bored.

And the post.

The lock ranges here are not that great given there ability to jump and engage from 100km.

These could be improved on the hulls or this could be another bonus built into the bastion module. 20 to 25 percent would fit quite well with the general range increasing nature of the bastion module.


Remember that those are just base lock ranges. A base range of ~90km gives you a bonused range of ~110 km.

Plus ship hulls don't operate in a vacuum. If you need to you can always equip sensor boosting modules.
Arthur Vega
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2996 - 2013-09-07 01:12:33 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
I don't even know where to begin. Next to the changes in the leadership bonuses that have completely nerfed the whole point of being a fleet commander, this is the worst change I have seen since I started playing Eve.

If I wanted a Dread, I'd buy a Dread. I use my marauder, as probably most players do, to brun through missions and make isk as quickly as possible and rack up the LP.

You say you don't want them to compete with the pirate battleships. Fair enough, I suppose. But good luck taking your pirate faction BS anywhere but HS or null that your alliance completely controls. Those ships are trophy kills for anyone, and we all know that.

The "original design" for the Marauders, as the OP mentioned, was PvE---so, why the heck does CCP feel the need to change it's role almost completely? I'm not gonna be using a 2B isk ship in PvP.... Sorry, just not worth it. But using it in PvE, I mission burn.

Honestly, I'm getting tired of logging on after an update and not being able to undock becasue a fit I've been using for months, or even longer, is now no longer viable.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

These changes suck. Leave the Marauders alone. They work fine, they do what they were designed to do, and a "mini-siege" mode?
*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal
That has very little practical use in PvE, and, as the OP mentioned, the timings will still make you an easy target to kill in PvP.

I'm losing drone capacity and bandwidth, I'm losing shield, armor, and hull, and gaining no additional resistance.

Hurray, let's make a great ship suck.
*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal

Arthur (I guess now I'm officially a "bitter-vet"
Balloq Tiberius
Tiberius Conglomeration
#2997 - 2013-09-07 01:16:47 UTC
First round of ideas were better as the marauders could rep with thier original bonuses regardless of the bastion mod now you need to become a brick just to tank better than a t1 alternative. Also these bonuses are not making the marauders value for money and they will probably never get flown by anyone unless they are a carebear who thinks he can own the world.

P.S The golem having both a web and target painter bonus is a bit useless as you are not going to be solo and in a gang your going to have other stuff to tackle and web for you same for the rest of the marauders.
ConranAntoni
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2998 - 2013-09-07 01:31:54 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
I want to like these changes as the mini siege module and transformation thing sounds incredible fun. However at this time, with this web bonus on ALL the hulls *Snip* Please refrain from gender stereotyping. ISD Ezwal

Stuff seems confused. Honestly, i'd relook at the entire concept and rework.

Empyrean Warriors - Recruiting now.

Just Lilly
#2999 - 2013-09-07 01:37:55 UTC
How about some AOE web, with a 50 km reach...

Deploy siege mode and behold the world around you in slow mo X)
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Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#3000 - 2013-09-07 01:48:04 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Alticus C Bear wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Go to bed features & ideas discussion forum, its late.

No even though it is almost 2am I am at work and bored.

And the post.

The lock ranges here are not that great given there ability to jump and engage from 100km.

These could be improved on the hulls or this could be another bonus built into the bastion module. 20 to 25 percent would fit quite well with the general range increasing nature of the bastion module.


Remember that those are just base lock ranges. A base range of ~90km gives you a bonused range of ~110 km.

Plus ship hulls don't operate in a vacuum. If you need to you can always equip sensor boosting modules.

Obviously depending on the direction you jump 110km gives a very narrow window and given the limited mid-slots on the Paladin an Kronos a sensor booster or even a signal amp seems a waste of a slot when it could be factored into the balance if the bastion module.