Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I think you misread my posts if you are claiming that I'm for the web bonus, or I'm misreading yours. Though, your idea of the bastion's weapons augmentation does work better with the web bonus rather than being irrelevant as it currently does. And the current bastion works better with the MJD bonus.

Tanking it solo is one thing finishing site is another incursion are not wh farmland if you go in you will not be webed sometimes / pointed sometimes neuted sometimes

You will be perma jamd perma webd perma pointed from multiple ships at the same time... going in solo(1st iteration) while it wouldn't be certain death(and it should be) you would stay there til DT or died if you didn't boot cap stable fit = even less dps on already pirate inferior dps due to allocation of additional mods for cap stuff.

Add dual webs as mandatory to kill frigs(when you are not jamd) and situation is getting worse there is only so much slots per ship....you can always try to jump around site to attempt to brake jams and use small window to eliminate frigs but that's not gaming it become punishment at that point.

Also 1st iteration was simply too much bastion focused all your tank was basically in bastion when you drop out of it nerfed hit points without any resist buff simply translated to easy alpha kill,no benefit from RR what so ever.

How about doing the same for tracking computers? It's the same PITA to wait for the cycle to change out scripts.

M

wait a tick.

think about the name...Marauder.
from wiki-
ma·raud·er
/məˈrôdər/
noun

noun: marauder; plural noun: marauders

1. a person who marauds; a raider.
"a band of English marauders were surprised and overcome"
synonyms:
raider, plunderer, pillager, looter, robber, pirate, freebooter, bandit, bandito, highwayman, rustler;

to me, this sounds like a ship thats designed to get in fast, strike hard and leave. they should not be tanky bricks, they
should have t2 resists, be as fast as command ships, strike with lethal force and fade. they should have mobility and
the mjd bonus fits that well. low sensor str is one thing, but it needs high scan res. has to lock and dish out the pain.
the sensor str being limited and only pumped up in bastion mode actually fits this play style. "forget electronics..when
we hit bastion mode, NOTHING CAN STOP US!"
lesser tank (not minimal) is ok, if we have good resists. somewhere between a command ship and a t1 bs with a bonus
attached similar to the damnation.

now, we can add the bastion mode which would give whatever bonuses you guys determine, but a marauder is a
quick striking ship. this train of thought would fit right in with the mjd/sniper mode. or, one could set it up for gank
with burner/mwd and speed in to orbit. it doesnt need more damage bonuses, it need application. more tracking, more range, explosion radius or velocity or just:

-make the golem a hybrid platform and just have gun mode in all things. bastion gives good gun bonuses along with
tank or rep. the golem was made when the raven was a beast of a torp boat...old skewl.
-take some armor, give us the 7.5% rep rate back.
-give it an rr bonus similar (but way less) than logi. maybe out to 20k on large reppers.
-how about similar to the damnation, a 7.5% bonus to armor or shield per lev? we have less armor than normal, but through experience, we learn to "fight the ship"?


this way fits a marauder style better. to go in, wreak havoc, patch each other up and leave.
self reliance as an individual or a team.

So less than current tank, without any speed tank, and BS sized sigs. Yeah. So much for having a role appropriate replacement for Tengus for the Maze.

Arrendis
"It's been suggested that there should be 3 T2 battleship classes - a dedicated PVE hull, a dedicated PVP hull, and a dedicated BlOps hull. Does the dev team have any thoughts on that? Is it a mad, mad thought? If the Marauders were to be the PVE hull in that scenario (which seems like how they'd best be used, since it's where they currently are anyway), what about leaving them largely intact, but adding a single high-slot for a salvager, and giving them a salvage bonus to take back that 'in-mission salvager' role from the Noctis?

Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of Bastion. More ships with visible transformation animations will always get my attention, but the first thing that has to be asked is: what is this ship supposed to do?"

CCP Ytterbium wrote:
"We haven't decided on anything regarding Marauders yet regarding web bonuses, remember until release this is an open discussion we're having.
We will still be running internal tests on both proposed versions on the Marauder thread, as well as some other variations - so consider yourself warned if things evolve in the future.
And by that we mean, Winter release is still quite some time away, we want to take our time to shape those things right, and see them on public testing before coming up with a final decision. Theory crafting is nice, but they also need to be put into practical situations."

So it's not to late to save these micro jump drive/bastion mod ideas for a new class of T2 heavy battleship (using the Rokh, Abaddon, Hyperion and Maelstrom hulls), and make some different changes to Marauders? Have the best of both worlds so to speak. I have to stress this point that in this time of re-balance the remaining battleships the consideration of making a new class of microjump/bastion a class of their own. So as to be able to fit them in with rest of the types. This is the time, 'now'and not later when it's too late and the animations are completed the money spent and and last of the battleship classes are 'balanced it will be far too late to do anything about this proposal. Let the marauders be better at what they are good for IE missions and incursions heck a little better than they are now.

(in here means new)
Paladin
Amarr Battleship Skill Bonus:5% bonus to capacitor capacity and 10% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level
Marauder Skill Bonus:7.5% bonus to repair amount of armor repair systems and 5% bonus to large energy turret damage per level
Role Bonus:100% bonus to large energy weapon damage
(T2 Raical Armor Armor Resistances EM50 THR35 KIN62.5 EXP80 Astarte and EOS have T2 Resists and Repper Bonus) org RM50 THR35 KIN34 EXP40
ARMOR 8,200HP SHIELD 6,800HP STRUCTURE 7,300HP
Max Velocity 105 m/s
RADAR sensor strength (22 points) org 10
Drone Capacity 75 m³, Drone Bandwith 75 Mbit/sec or more (or more)
(8th high slot total of 4 utility highs)
(Role Bonus:500% bonus to tractor beam range and 100% bonus to tractor beam velocity
or
Marauder Skill Bonus:5% bonus to Tractor Beam and Salvager cycle time and 60% bonus to Tractor Beam range and velocity per level
or
Role Bonus: 99% reduction in the powergrid need, 50% reduction in the capacitor need, and 50% reduction in the CPU need of Capital Tractor Beams)



Micro Jump/Bastion laserboat on Abbadon hull
Role Bonus: 100% bonus to large energy weapon damage, 70% reduction in Micro Jump Drive reactivation delay Amarr Battleship Skill Bonus:5% bonus to capacitor capacity, 7.5% bonus to Large Energy Turret optimal range MJ/Bastion Skill Bonus:7.5% bonus to repair amount of armor repair systems,5% bonus to large energy turret damage per level

Slot layout: 8H(+1), 4M, 7L; 4 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 16500 PWG (+3000), 530 CPU (+30)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 6300(-500) / 8000(-200) / 7700(+400)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 8000(+2375) / 1000s (+76.1s) / 8 cap/s (+2)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 85 m/s(-20) / .119(-0.009) / 111665000(+6465000) / 18.42s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25(-50) / 50(-25)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 91km(+10km) / 120(+39) / 10
Sensor strength: 12 Radar
Signature radius: 420(-80)


Or the new Micro Jump/Bastion laserboat stats:
Role Bonus: 100% bonus to large energy weapon damage, 100% bonus to range and velocity of tractor beams, 70% reduction in Micro Jump Drive reactivation delay

Amarr Battleship Skill Bonus:
5% bonus to capacitor capacity
7.5% bonus to Large Energy Turret optimal range (instead of 10% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level)
MJ/Bastion Skill Bonus:
7.5% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level
5% bonus to large energy turret damage per level


Slot layout: 8H(+1), 4M, 7L; 4 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 16500 PWG (+3000), 530 CPU (+30)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 6300(-500) / 8000(-200) / 7700(+400)
Shield resists: 0% EM / 87.5% EX / 70% KIN / 20% THERM
Armor resists: 50% EM / 80% EX / 62.5% KIN / 35% THERM
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 8000(+2375) / 1000s (+76.1s) / 8 cap/s (+2)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 85 m/s(-20) / .119(-0.009) / 111665000(+6465000) / 18.42s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25(-50) / 50(-25)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 91km(+10km) / 120(+39) / 10
Sensor strength: 12 Radar
Signature radius: 420(-80)

Im actually disappointet with these proposed Marauder changes.

If i look at the amount of skill time and the ISK such a hull costs Bastion has to become a lot stronger and it needs massive damage boost to be worth it at all. Currently you gain a little bit range, a lot of local selftank and ewar immunity and for that you are fixed in position for 60sec. In 0.0 and WH a death sentence. Its simply not worth the tradeoff.

I cant see any reason to go the long way and train for Marauders right now. Bastion absolutely needs a huge damage buff to be wort it.

yeah i dont know if i ever said it before, but among all the rest of this.... i personally dont want to be strong armed into using MJD on this ship.

Reason1: why should it have to use mjd? (via reduced normal speed), why should you want us to?
Reason2: i dont want to use an mjd XD
Reason3: if you want this to be useful in PVE, most situations make MJDs..... not the best choice. In most of the situations where it would be a good choice would be in sniping or out ranging, which is lower dps than close range, which leads back to it not being as useful in pve, thats just a method to increase your survival which leads to ANOTHER reason why you wouldnt want to use is, because you ALREADY have a good tank, all of this leading back to my reason 2 of i just plain dont want to use an mjd

I would like to apologize for my English before the post itself. I'm not a native English speaker, be kind yet feel free to correct me, the faster i learn the lesser i will bother you with bad writing

I would like to say that i own and use marauders on my PvE pilot (Vargur and Golem) and i have direct feedback and comparison from my brother accounts (Vargur and Paladin + Golem). I do not have any experience with Kronos and Hybrid in general, so i will avoid speaking regard them (that's also mean that no part of my post is related to that ship, since it would had no sense to speak about something i don't know).

First, there are focus complain based on the class name. Sub-cap Industrial ships lack any productivity use, they are hauler, closer to IRL meaning of logistic than industrial. While EvE-Logistic do close to no logistic work at all (even in military sense there are quite distant). So.. not really a point.

Second, PvE-OP-TANK argument: Marauders (as i told, in this post meaning: Golem, Vargur and Paladin) are top of the line generic PVE ship (DPS close to pirate, but sturdier), you can run most content "click target" "position yourself" "Open fire", repeat "wait to 30% defense, pulse until 35% cap" yet fitted mostly T2 (you only need faction booster/repairer and 2/3 damage modules, no bling is really justified as "needed"). The static nature of bastion won't help really much since it's not really needed in "safe" places (LvL4, no blue dock rattling), way too risky in hazardous location (lowsec, anoms, WH) or just a optimistic way to lose your ship in an Incursion "look dude I'm going to local thank them, trust me, I'm an engineer"

Conclusion, PvE related, the first version resist bonus bastion isn't really interesting as much as impractical. The actual version still iterate major drawback from the original, paired with the proposed T2 resist, same story. I'm not much into BS size PvP (Waiting broadcast to press F1 didn't make me any smarter regards BS judgment) so it might be better leaving this field to experienced people.

Some point PvE related, according to me:

• CCP might consider that Marauder skill is very intensive, not very diffused and advertised as PvE "top ship". therefore we are not speaking about "XYrace Battleship" or "XYrace Cruiser", people planned to fly a marauder and invested in a specific training path that lead to a single Ship. "compromising" one of this ships leave little to none alternative (not a multiple ships class as BS o Cruiser, yet not a prerequisite to go further).


• Removing Local repair boost in exchange of T2 hardener might be not enough (maybe some number guru can help us figure it out). How about leaving the old bonus plus T2 hardener by removing the lvl V trained amount from Bastion mode? I really don't like the idea of having a "pit stop" in order to repair my ship, especially in some places..


• Webifiers bonus, always welcome but not needed, also not worth booster amount lost. (i'm not using a webifiers even now)


• Webifiers+Painters on Golem, if i could spare a mid i would put and extra painter, boost bonus is much better.


• Drone bandwidth/Bay... the pve essential on unbonused ships (on the move) are 1 flight of light, 1 flight of salvager, we don't really demand more than 25 bandwidth (yet it would be nice on the Golem) but at least 75 bay should be mandatory for such ships.


• Golem had been the sidekick of other marauders for long, it took a cruise buff and a NPC anti-missiles mass extinction to shine (yes i know there are still pesky anti-missiles out there, they just hide very well, but they aren't many as it used to be), please consider let it be on par (like: 25%optimal + 25% falloff vs. 25% missiles speed...)


• MJD bonus is a nice idea, just don't weight it as full PvE bonus when balancing aspect, actually using and MJD on a marauder just slow you if there is at least one gate (Golem make exception thanks to missiles, sometimes by triangulating your jumps you can get to a gate quite fast).


• Powergrid Boost is a welcome features, but all ships should get at least +10 CPU (new modules fitting requirement)


• Capacitor, it looks like they are going to have slower recharge time but bigger cap? By sheer number i can't tell if it's good or not, but consider that "old" marauder used to pulse very well, close to 2 cycle off 1 on when around the recharge peak.


• Incursion is going to make short work of such ships, marauders were good solo ships (sort of autarchy pve ship) and could be overshadowed in many single aspect from other ships. Ideal Incursion fleet are formed from cherry-picked ships, each one shining in some aspect, having a ship-of-the line whose specialty is deny of logistic help is of little use (yet the new T2 resist can help as a nice filler ship).

Well, nobody is forcing you to use a MJD.

You might keep in mind that the MJD has become a staple for many mission runners, admittedly usually only for those that are using sentry drones.

However, if you prefer to sit in the thick of it and mix it up at all ranges, you have Bastion mode at your disposal. Just remember that if you are going to fight in Bastion mode, most of your mods will be dedicated to damage and tracking... you won't need much devoted to tank.