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[Rubicon] Marauder rebalancing

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Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#2461 - 2013-09-05 10:46:41 UTC
The Real Problem is Marauder Theme, Bastion Modul, MJD Rolebonus and Web Bonus just wont fit together, its only a Giant expensive Mixed Bag...

Meet the Mario Kart 8 - Capsuleer Club Cup
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2462 - 2013-09-05 10:52:48 UTC
This Marauder change has gone from "Great!" to "No thanks".

Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook 

Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#2463 - 2013-09-05 10:59:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Lloyd Roses
Quote:
[Kronos, huehuehue]

1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Centus C-Type Armor Explosive Hardener
Internal Force Field Array I
True Sansha Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Centii A-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer

Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Heavy Capacitor Booster II
Large Micro Jump Drive

Dread Guristas Large Graviton Smartbomb
Dread Guristas Large Graviton Smartbomb
Dread Guristas Large Graviton Smartbomb
Dread Guristas Large Graviton Smartbomb
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L

Large Hybrid Burst Aerator II
Large Trimark Armor Pump II


That just like that. Would be around 1.7bil at current prices. A Marauder with - before links - approximately 160k EHP and resistances slightly above your regular proteus. Can switch a web for eccm, but given that you'll most likely fly it together with some mates, might totally be unnecessary. Like that, tracking of 0.9/sec, 4km optimal, 16km falloff, 1100 dps, 160 dps from smartbombs. Using Void, 1300dps cold, 1500 hot. Not bad at all in my opinion atleast. Can also switch up to two smartbombs for heavy neuts, since you still got that much grid :>

Funny thing though, while the em/explosive resistances are still the same as T1, your kinetic goes from 77.7 to 92.6 and therm from 74.0 to 85.1.
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#2464 - 2013-09-05 11:01:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
It almost looks like CCP gone the route:
1. Do something bad.
2. Change to something even worse.
3. To do something better - revert 2 to 1.
...........
Profit!.


As a side note: swap web bonus to 10% range and damage of smart bombs.

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.
Lair Osen
#2465 - 2013-09-05 11:02:32 UTC
To mare wrote:
ithink they really deserve a 5th turret/missile launcher
every marauder have less potential dps than one T1 BS of the same race


Where did you get that idea??
Vargur has 10.67 effective turrets, same as Mael and FleePest, (less than Mach with 11.67)
Paladin has 10 same as Abaddon and Nightmare (more than Bhaalgorn with 8)
Kronos has 10 more than any other than Vindi with 11
Golem has 8, the same as Raven, RNI and SNI (can't really talk about the Rattlesnake with its mixed missile/drone damage)
Josilin du Guesclin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2466 - 2013-09-05 11:18:25 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:

Plus I've made my argument against velocity bonused webs a few times already, after running the numbers I'd much rather see range bonused ones. Better for incursions with the Warfare Link changes, lets you better hold cruisers out at blap-ranges, and is less OP for PvP in general since it doesn't make you immune to small ships, just somewhat resistant.

I'm a fan of a range bonus to webs, if bonused webs must be. It shouldn't be anything like massive bonuses some hulls get, but 10%/level wouldn't be too strong.

However, the Golem really should have something else in place of the painter bonus if the web bonus stays on, because otherwise one of its major hull bonuses becomes very hard to use due to insufficient mids for MJD+web+painter+tank. They're nothing wrong with having to compromise to fit dual-prop plus everything else, or double painters, but having to not fit things your ship is clearly intended to fit sucks, especially as other marauders won't have this problem, and thus will be more attractive because they'll be stronger for being able to use all their bonuses.
Hanna Cyrus
Spessart Rebellen
#2467 - 2013-09-05 11:18:43 UTC
Folks, you want too much at all. Pick one and strenghten this not all at once.

Maybe i have a nice idea: make the Bastion mode, a mode the needs fuel stored in an extra cargo, that allows to reduce the mass of the ship by 50%. This will boost your MWD / AB Speed for the duration immense, makes it a mobil ship for PVE / PVP. No extra dps, no extra range, maybe a bit better sensor strenght an scan res, this should not get over the top.

What do you think?
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#2468 - 2013-09-05 11:23:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Hanna Cyrus wrote:
Folks, you want too much at all. Pick one and strenghten this not all at once.

Maybe i have a nice idea: make the Bastion mode, a mode the needs fuel stored in an extra cargo, that allows to reduce the mass of the ship by 50%. This will boost your MWD / AB Speed for the duration immense, makes it a mobil ship for PVE / PVP. No extra dps, no extra range, maybe a bit better sensor strenght an scan res, this should not get over the top.

What do you think?


Return to the age of nanoRavens when nanofibers affected mass and not agility? Was it fun? yeah... Balanced? No.

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.
To mare
Advanced Technology
#2469 - 2013-09-05 11:26:13 UTC  |  Edited by: To mare
Lair Osen wrote:
To mare wrote:
ithink they really deserve a 5th turret/missile launcher
every marauder have less potential dps than one T1 BS of the same race


Where did you get that idea??
Vargur has 10.67 effective turrets, same as Mael and FleePest, (less than Mach with 11.67)
Paladin has 10 same as Abaddon and Nightmare (more than Bhaalgorn with 8)
Kronos has 10 more than any other than Vindi with 11
Golem has 8, the same as Raven, RNI and SNI (can't really talk about the Rattlesnake with its mixed missile/drone damage)


equal turret for 3 of them but t1 have more drone dps available
10 turret vs 9 for the kronos vs hype but huge drone bay difference

edit: except for the raven it got its drone bay nerfed recently, forgot about that
Cassius Invictus
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2470 - 2013-09-05 11:27:38 UTC
Whatever CCP will do they should make their mind about it.

Right now it is a tank on wheels, with spining baldes as its main armament. Guys firgure out what this ship is for. Than start applying bonuses, resists, etc.

marly cortez
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#2471 - 2013-09-05 11:34:36 UTC
Guess that finally finishes off the Marauder as a PvE ship, was, is and will remain utterly useless for PvP, and whatever caused you to believe that a WEB bonus was in anyway what players needed, EWAR boost maybe Webs, come on please.

'Bastion' module, yer right, lets all warp in and just sit there asking to be hot dropped, that is if your stupid enough to use a Marauder in PvP in the first place, and if your using it for PvE, what ya gonna dump so you can fit it, more of the mediocre tank, weapons or Cap.

All Marauders really needed was a tweak to Ewar, nothing more, wonder how much time CCP invested in this.







Humanity is the thin veneer that remains after you remove the baffled chimp.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#2472 - 2013-09-05 11:35:36 UTC
Critical Issue
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2473 - 2013-09-05 11:36:47 UTC
Jowen Datloran wrote:
This Marauder change has gone from "Great!" to "No thanks".


Thats what i said also.

BTW i hope this thread reaches 300 pages.
Lucidia fern
Bacon.
#2474 - 2013-09-05 11:38:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucidia fern
Going by the view of this forum thread, CCP needs to answer the following questions so we have a chance in hell of understanding these changes


What role is this ship intended to fill now ?

What +/- is PVE supposed to expect?

What +/- is PVP supposed to expect?

Right now there seems to be a complete lack of direction. The 1st iteration of changes whilst somewhat contested at least made sense / showed direction. This second set seems to be split personality and directionless.
Franz7657
DreddNaut
#2475 - 2013-09-05 11:51:02 UTC
We have removed all tanking bonuses on the Marauders hulls (Armor Repairer amount on the Paladin and Kronos, Shield Boost amount on the Golem and Vargur). Instead, we are giving them 7.5% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level.

wtf? webber is completly useless on the golem...

let the shield boost bonus
Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#2476 - 2013-09-05 11:52:38 UTC
Battle Cube wrote:
Silvetica Dian wrote:
some of us liked the 1st iteration more :(


the new version is almost identical to the original - the bastion mode still behaves the same still having high resists and great local tank. Only now, the regular mode isn't nerfed to compensate. Furthermore, in situations where you would attempt to leave bastion mode in order to get reped, your resists don't go down, meaning its a whole lot more possible to accept reps.


except that Bastion mode comes with a huge downside. 1 minute of being unable to move + not able to receive RR.
1st iteration had a rep bonus, ewar immunity, huge resist bonus and a range bonus.
2nd iteration bastion mode loses one of the bonuses but keeps all the downsides.

It basically dramatically lowers the usefulness of bastion mode in PVP (unless you count uncontested structure shoots as PVP) and thus the chance of seeing it being used.

The 1st iteration it was at least possible to envision MJD to reposition and bastion to survive until logi burned into range. The loss of the huge EHP bonus as well as some of the inherant bonuses to self rep take this sort of tactic from unlikely outside of Rooks and Kings making an awesome video to suicide.

It is the ability to survive reposition until logi gets back to range that has been nerfed. Webbing is better applied from a specialised webbing platform and i really don't see what short ranged webs have to do with a ship flooded with range bonuses to weapons. (except in PVE).

Also i am totally not understanding the lvl 4 mission crowd. Every lvl 4 is doable in a drake with T1 missiles. Every ship beyond that just makes it faster and more efficient. Blinged out marauders doing them is beyond overkill.

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#2477 - 2013-09-05 11:53:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagrat Skalski
Quote:
This second set seems to be split personality and directionless.


Catering to a wider audience make sense don't you think?
What are those new tech2 resistances on marauders, do they compensate lack of bonuses to the local reps?

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
MBizon Osis
Doomheim
#2478 - 2013-09-05 11:57:28 UTC










sensor strength
______Marauders+T2 Resists =_________Rebalanced!
/ Track&salvager bonus
/
Direction--/
\
\ MicroJumpDrive
-------New Ideas+BastionMod =_____New Ship!
AbaddonHull
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2479 - 2013-09-05 11:59:22 UTC
Why in hell the massive nerf to the vargur? So much less HP and loosing 1/3 of its speed? Wtf? I am sellign Mine TODAY if its becommign this crap.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#2480 - 2013-09-05 12:03:58 UTC
Franz7657 wrote:
wtf? webber is completly useless on the golem...


Well, the kronos and Paladin Pilots wanted their webs.

So now it's all of them or none of them. Roll

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.