Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Just like to point out, maybe I missed it in the previous posts- the latest iteration.

Kronos, Paladin, Vargur - Marauder skill lvl gives a weapon bonus and an ewar bonus.
Golem - Maraduer skill gives ewar, and ewar.

For me, web on Golem is a useless and will never be used bonus. Why not give the Golem an equal bonus to other hulls.
Some boost to missle performance and the tp bonus, to be inline with the other hulls.

Just a faithful Golem pilot's two-cents.

Lets see if I can give the reading base some clarification about why so many Murader pilots want the web bonus gone for something else... and why we seriously dislike the idea of a "Stationary" gun fortress.

To effectively run missions - we fight at range. Large guns hit with certainty around 30km++ (for Vargur / Paladin) or 35++ For the Kronos. Golem is a wild child and is more interested in sig radius, but gets a painter bonus (which is usefull for that hull). Because of this, most engagement ranges for these Muraders is 30-60km, with the Paladin and Kronos pushing out 80 or more KM for effective DPS.

We prefer to fight at range, and have the ability to do damage at range because it is both faster and safer for mission running. Most Battle Ships primarily Distance Tank. We are able to stay outside of weapons damage range of the NPC rats, and using an AB or MWD we can easily dictate both range and angular velocity to targets to a level of high fidelity, ensuring optimal safety and damage application.


Webs don't go out to 30-35km. - Webs go out to 9km. Expensive Faction webs might go out to 14 km. Even then while webbed, those ships are impossible to hit with large caliber weapons (especially rails / beems ) from inside 15km. Even a 90% web. You have to both Web and fly manually to lower angular velocity to the point of solid hits. If we are stationary, we can no longer kill close up elite cruisers, or blap elite cruisers that orbit at 15-18km.

It is far more effective to fly manually and burn away or in parallel to a group of ships, than sit stationary and try to web them one at a time (each web takes time to slow its target... web fighting is SLOW fighting). So instead of webs, we fit tracking computers, two at a time, with either Range (Hey, we already good at that), or raw tracking (hey we can hit them with manual flying at 30km).

"Why not just fit short ranged weapons"

The time it takes to travel within optimal range, apply damage, destroy target and then fly to the next target.... It's slow. It is significantly faster to gradually burn range (or manipulate speed to maintain range), to apply your 800-1000 dps constantly and instantly to each and every target in sequence. Not to mention the additional safety aspect. I am not constantly within optimal range of each pocket of agro, constantly, every fight. I simply start shooting off the incoming DPS carefully, then turn my repper off and pulse tank as needed.

Its faster and safer to fly manual / dictate range / angular velocity with long range weapon systems, than to rely on a web while brick tanking.

Everyone is screaming for webs for 1 of 2 reasons... Specific Incusion fits (which is a non issue considering how many people bring webs), or PVP (Which is a valid concern. As Webs on a Blaster Kronos / Autocannon Vargur is a high point and potential for this hull).

Major Mission Runners / Sanctum / Haven / Worm Hole Runners Use Dual Tracking Computers or Target Painters (golem). Not webs. That's why we scratch our heads at this compared to the theory crafters.

All armor reps getting +15% means the paladin doesn't stand out there though. Agreed on the range vs tracking, and bastion adds a nice option, but it will be slower, moreso under prop mods due to mass difference, have less drone flexibility and probably less tank after fitting aside from bastion focused tanks.

Which is my issue, the ships are going the direction of being prenerfed to keep bastion from being OP, and personally, I wanted to be an option, not something mandatory to keep it from being inferior for solo work. For incursions I'm not sure where it stands, web nerf seems compensated for by the more omni friendly resist profile.

With the focus seeming to shift from Bastion optional to Bastion+MJD mandatory I'd argue that range would be highly prized. Blinking out 100km on a megapulse+scorch boat and still being viable is one of my hopes that remain intact at this point.

So basically the marauder should be defined by the bastion capabilities rather than stand on their own with bastion being a situationally viable benefit?

The nightmare has the damage bonus as well. Range on the hull seems negated by inferior mobility. These are concerns purely related to outside of Bastion abilities.

Had trouble fitting tach's and being happy with the fit in the past, though the increased fitting could well change that. We'll see. Though I wonder if I'll miss the tracking.

oh comeon! 65-70km optimal with multi, that's just kick ass!

the web bonus is very good in some situations and I don't think it really detracts from anything else the hulls do.

and that is more or less how I have flown my marauder since I got it not too long after they got released. Only I'd rather say I gank tank than range tank. a ~300 dps tank is sufficient for any lv4 that I've run. having the range is just a bonus as I can start most engagements using high damage ammo instead of swapping.

and to nitpick the kronos and paladin are effective at mostly the same ranges, and the vargur probably wants to be a bit closer (which is fine as angels can't really hit for crap)

Certainly the conclusion seems to strongly be that webs are the wrong module to be associated with this ship by a long way.
Perhaps look at a more appropriate bonus for a stationary/slow moving ship? That is either never going to get into web range or is still not going to be able to hit it's target.
Smart bomb range would be a very unique bonus (if not usable in High sec due to concord risks) which would be usable. Point range so you can keep point even while they burn away from your 0m/s BS. Two easy options at least. And both PvP related uses.

WHY!!!!!!!!

Really.. why.. this is so insane i keep checking the calendar to make sure it isnt April. You want to take away our tanking bonus to give us back our web bonus, at a nerf'd rate? Why does a golem need a web bonus anyway? At first the changes where bearable. Annoying, requiring a completely new fitting idea. Now.. this is just plain stupid.

Also how is this going to help in pvp? You want them to jump away and go into a siege mode.. Then use range weapons and range ammo so a maxxed skilled kronos pilot is going to add what 300 dps in a pvp fight? Lulz yeah lets bring a 1.2 billion isk ship into a fight and add 300dps. I can get that in a **** fit demios for 1/4 the price. or out dps it in a t1 rail fit naga for even less.

These ships were created to run mission. The only thing your doing is making more people switch to pirate ships and leave these in the hangar.. These updates wont make them viable in pvp, just makes them less viable for missions.