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[Rubicon] Marauder rebalancing

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Suzuma
Makiriemi Industries
#2321 - 2013-09-05 01:52:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Suzuma
Firstly, I assume the Art department is too busy/lazy to make four more T2 battleship hulls. Secondly, would it not have been better to rebalance Marauders and Pirate BS together? Anyway...

Good:

1) Large guns/missiles as primary weapons
Sorry to everyone who considers drones to be a primary weapon but they are not (yet).

2) Four utility highs
Nos, neuts, smartbombs, salvagers, tractor beams, offline heat sinks, Bastion, whatever you like/need

3) Bastion
Boosting primary weapon projection since damage numbers were never a problem

4) Maximum of 25mbit drone bandwidth
You don't need more than this to kill tacklers. Drone bays: Amarr/Gallente 75m3, Caldari/Minmatar 50m3

5) T2 resists
Noticeable Improvement over T1 battleships, tradeoff vs higher hitpoints on navy battleships, no brainer

6) 90% webs
Until the game's broken tracking formula is fixed, 90% webs are a required mechanic

7) MJD Bonus synergy with primary weapons
Innovative and interesting, has the potential to shake up combat in all game environments


Bad
1) Rep bonus
Repair bonuses should only come from entering Bastion mode, the combination of a repair bonus and an additional one in Bastion is bad design

2) Low Sensor Strength
This was and is a poorly thought out weakness which is no longer necessary in today's metagame. The removal of tanking bonuses until you enter Bastion should be the new weakness. Outside of Bastion, they are improved versions of T1 battleships (as they should be). While in Bastion, they gain immunity to EW but are still highly vulnerable to neuts. Combine this with immobility for 60 seconds at a time and they are strong yet not overpowered.

3) Tractor beam bonus
Obsoleted in part by Noctis but not too much of a problem as it is a role bonus


Tweaks/Concerns

1) Vargur/Golem will seriously out-tank the others while in Bastion until ASBs are limited to 1 module per hull. Or make Bastion not affect ASBs/AARs so people can make use of the recent buffs to regular active tanking modules...

CEO

Makiriemi Industries
MBizon Osis
Doomheim
#2322 - 2013-09-05 01:58:51 UTC  |  Edited by: MBizon Osis
Optimo Sebiestor"Dear CCP, Please just buff the current marauders so that they are in line with the pirate faction battleships. The whole consept of mini dreads sounds to me as a new tier 2 marauder. I may even be so bold and ask if it can be based on the tier 3 battleship design. Alot of people love their marauders the way they are. I fear changing it to a mini dread, alters it too much from its current use. Forcing people to go for the pirate faction battleships, leaves alot of grumpy people considering the amount of specialisation that goes into training for this type of ship. This doesnt really feel like balancing, it feels more like a new game feature, and I think it should be treated as such. Personally I will train for one, because it just sounds awsome. But it doesnt feel so awsome it should come at the expense of an already good ship class."

Maaloc"So, as a result of you haphazard rebalances we now have the situation when fractional battleships are almost the same in pve as the marauders. In my opinion, you should reward players for the time they've spent learning the neccesary skills and getting isk to by these rather expensive skills...but instead you are proposing this Shocked You must have probably forgoten, but there's not only high-secs. This ****** rebalance of yours is a nice kick in the balls for those who use marauders in low- and null-secs and in wh-space: using this bastion module is kinda dangerous since one minute is more than enough to probe such a big ship and light up a cyno on your mission site. And without this module we get slightly castrated versions of the ships we already have.And MJD. All marauders are tanked as hell. Why the hell would they need to use MJD in PvE? It's simply redundant. And I seriously doubt they will find any use in PvP when a middle-sized gang of cheap nagas/tengues/etc can easily **** your maradeurs just with a couple of curses (the ships I mean) even if the maradeurs are in siege-mode."

Galdrak"could i suggest that like the command ships damnation and absolution
you make a second marauder based on your changes and leave my first gen paladin as it is.
copy and repeat for all the other racesStick it on SISI and let the unwashed masses try it out. 1st gen against 2nd gen. cant be that hard to strap another hamster to the wheel.stop re balancing and start evolving, let the races make improvements they would naturally make in ten years of research during times of war. "



My Idea of
Rebalanced Paladin
(in here means new)
Amarr Battleship Skill Bonus:5% bonus to capacitor capacity and 10% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level
Marauder Skill Bonus:7.5% bonus to repair amount of armor repair systems and 5% bonus to large energy turret damage per level
Role Bonus:100% bonus to large energy weapon damage
(T2 Raical Armor Armor Resistances EM50 THR35 KIN53 EXP70 Astarte and EOS have T2 Resists and Repper Bonus) org RM50 THR35 KIN34 EXP40
ARMOR 8,200HP SHIELD 6,800HP STRUCTURE 7,300HP
Max Velocity 105 m/s
RADAR sensor strength (22 points) org 10
Drone Capacity 75 m³, Drone Bandwith 75 Mbit/sec or more (or more)
(8th high slot total of 4 utility highs)
(Role Bonus:500% bonus to tractor beam range and 100% bonus to tractor beam velocity
or
Marauder Skill Bonus:5% bonus to Tractor Beam and Salvager cycle time and 60% bonus to Tractor Beam range and velocity per level.)




Micro Jump/Bastion laserboat on Abbadon hull
Role Bonus: 100% bonus to large energy weapon damage, 70% reduction in Micro Jump Drive reactivation delay
Amarr Battleship Skill Bonus:5% bonus to capacitor capacity, 7.5% bonus to Large Energy Turret optimal range
MJ/Bastion Skill Bonus:7.5% bonus to repair amount of armor repair systems,5% bonus to large energy turret damage per level

Slot layout: 8H(+1), 4M, 7L; 4 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 16500 PWG (+3000), 530 CPU (+30)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 6300(-500) / 8000(-200) / 7700(+400)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 8000(+2375) / 1000s (+76.1s) / 8 cap/s (+2)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 85 m/s(-20) / .119(-0.009) / 111665000(+6465000) / 18.42s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25(-50) / 50(-25)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 91km(+10km) / 120(+39) / 10
Sensor strength: 12 Radar
Signature radius: 420(-80)


Or the "new" Micro Jump/Bastion laserboat stats:
Role Bonus: 100% bonus to large energy weapon damage, 100% bonus to range and velocity of tractor beams, 70% reduction in Micro Jump Drive reactivation delay
Amarr Battleship Skill Bonus:
5% bonus to capacitor capacity
7.5% bonus to Large Energy Turret optimal range (instead of 10% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level)
MJ/Bastion Skill Bonus:
7.5% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level
5% bonus to large energy turret damage per level

Slot layout: 8H(+1), 4M, 7L; 4 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 16500 PWG (+3000), 530 CPU (+30)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 6300(-500) / 8000(-200) / 7700(+400)
Shield resists: 0% EM / 87.5% EX / 70% KIN / 20% THERM
Armor resists: 50% EM / 80% EX / 62.5% KIN / 35% THERM
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 8000(+2375) / 1000s (+76.1s) / 8 cap/s (+2)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 85 m/s(-20) / .119(-0.009) / 111665000(+6465000) / 18.42s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25(-50) / 50(-25)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 91km(+10km) / 120(+39) / 10
Sensor strength: 12 Radar
Signature radius: 420(-80)

ps. sry I don't know the other Marauders well enough to have a Rebalanced version here
Battle Cube
Cube Collective
#2323 - 2013-09-05 02:00:57 UTC
my request to the devs:

Please with the next iteration (or this one, if you believe it is sufficient) explicitly state what scenarios marauders are supposed to excel in, and why it would be better to use a marauder in that situation rather than say, a pirate ship.

I think the biggest problem is that people are not sure what place marauders are supposed be, and why their high isk and sp cost is warranted.

Thanks for the update on new stats and the very informational post on the earlier version showing how it would perform in missions, but the issue is not what it "can" do, or even what it excels in, but rather, what it is (best at) Better at than any other ship. So we dont need exact numbers or exactly How it will function, just assurance that it is supposed to be better at scenario X than other ships, and that it will be balanced accordingly. Many thanks in advance.

Re-post for ultimate justice!
Incindir Mauser
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2324 - 2013-09-05 02:01:38 UTC

This ship redesign is poor.

CCP you are trying to shoehorn too many clowns into the tiny car on this one.

If you want to see more Marauders getting used in PvP, make the hulls cheaper. 800 million just in raw materials plus a convoluted invention process does not inspire one to PvP in a hull that costs one billion isk. Unless you're rich or foolish.

Marauders are a carebear boat. Leave them that way. If you want to make a weird MJD Gobot sniper ship based on a battleship hull, start from the beginning and dedicate a hull to it. Nerf on-grid combat scanning so sniping out past 149km is viable as a tactic, while you're at it.


DRGaius Baltar
Perkone
Caldari State
#2325 - 2013-09-05 02:04:37 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Time for another update.

We discussed the Marauder situation further and came with the following changes:


  • Shield, armor and hull 30% resistance boosts have been removed on the Bastion Module - instead, all Marauders will now get proper tech2 resists. This will allow Marauders to have better RR use outside Bastion and reduce overall tanking effectiveness inside the mode.

  • We have removed all tanking bonuses on the Marauders hulls (Armor Repairer amount on the Paladin and Kronos, Shield Boost amount on the Golem and Vargur). Instead, we are giving them 7.5% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level. This will not only help reducing their tanking effectiveness, be more in theme with the ship role itself and help anyone using them with short range weapons. We are not giving them a full 10% per level back as this would be extremely powerful in conjunction with the other bonuses / Bastion. We are going to leave the full 10% web strength amount on the Serpentis ships for now and see how things evolve with time.

  • Also, we are removing the mass penalty on the Bastion mode. Tests have shown you can't really turn when it's active anyway, and we don't want to have players abuse that to collapse wormholes.


I will change the OP to match the changes.



So TLDR the Incursion Bears whine and thus a change, Thanks for the blue ballz CCP Oh seven
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#2326 - 2013-09-05 02:16:27 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Most EM weak rats also deal EM, which means that your damage comes pared with your tank in missions as well as anoms. On the Paladin those are opposed. You have no "choice." You are either not hitting the targets weakness or reenforcing your own.

Yeah, I got it. Paladin is at disadvantage here. But the point I was making is that this ship's Amarrian resists make it omni tanker, which in general is an asset, not liability. You don't get boost against EM but this resist is already the highest on T1 and the rest is just bonus. Mostly unused bonus but still bonus.
Ravasta Helugo
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#2327 - 2013-09-05 02:20:36 UTC
hmskrecik wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Most EM weak rats also deal EM, which means that your damage comes pared with your tank in missions as well as anoms. On the Paladin those are opposed. You have no "choice." You are either not hitting the targets weakness or reenforcing your own.

Yeah, I got it. Paladin is at disadvantage here. But the point I was making is that this ship's Amarrian resists make it omni tanker, which in general is an asset, not liability. You don't get boost against EM but this resist is already the highest on T1 and the rest is just bonus. Mostly unused bonus but still bonus.

"In general" in this instance does not apply to "missions." Which are, you know, what the ship is supposed to be better at than anything else.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#2328 - 2013-09-05 02:32:10 UTC
Ravasta Helugo wrote:

"In general" in this instance does not apply to "missions." Which are, you know, what the ship is supposed to be better at than anything else.


Maybe these guys know something more than we do about the future of missions in the game, and the one thing that these ships excel at (OK, armour Marauders do pretty well in Incursions), won't be in its current form after the winter iteration.

Remember the background of the dev's, read their comments about PvE over the past couple years, especially high sec, and then guess what might be "rebalanced".
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2329 - 2013-09-05 02:43:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Ravasta Helugo wrote:

"In general" in this instance does not apply to "missions." Which are, you know, what the ship is supposed to be better at than anything else.


Maybe these guys know something more than we do about the future of missions in the game, and the one thing that these ships excel at (OK, armour Marauders do pretty well in Incursions), won't be in its current form after the winter iteration.

Remember the background of the dev's, read their comments about PvE over the past couple years, especially high sec, and then guess what might be "rebalanced".

If that plays out sure, but really the most iteration we've seen is on the side of balancing income and reducing AFK potential, which again is just balancing income. Though, even if this does play out, will marauders as envisioned in the current iteration stand out enough to draw people to them over their competition?

They're on par at best with other non-vanilla BS's on damage and as proposed lacking in all else outside of bastion. So really, considering the stated desires for PvE, unless "more like PvP" means "devoid of movement and everything eagerly wanders into web range" I have to wonder.
Teegra Frost
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2330 - 2013-09-05 02:43:55 UTC
So if your trying to make Marauders more useful for PVP, does this mean your going to make Black Ops more useful for PVE?

I had thought the idea of T2 hulls were to have them more of a specialization.

Why can't Marauders work like this with reguards to ship bonuses:

1x tank bonus
1x damage bonus
2x projected damage bonuses

Then have the Bastion Module increase those bonuses by a percent.


Also this is strange on the Paladin. Odd that it has a super capacitor and the bonus doesn't apply to laser turret usage. You increased the base capacitor so why is the hull capacitor bonus needed?

PALADIN

- Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 8000(+2375) / 1000s (+76.1s) / 8 cap/s (+2)

Plus it has this for a bonus.

Amarr Battleship Skill Bonus:
- 5% bonus to capacitor capacity
Kasife Vynneve
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2331 - 2013-09-05 02:45:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Kasife Vynneve
Ug. Another fine example of why devs should ignore the whining masses.
GeeBee
Backwater Redux
Tactical Narcotics Team
#2332 - 2013-09-05 02:50:30 UTC
Like many others I've been waiting to see what *the next update* would be for marauders after giving first round of feedback.

The new set of changes are the opposite direction I'd like to see.

My Reasons
1) Marauders should be proper tech 2 battleships and be combat capable in every way a standard battleship is
2) Do not agree with the proposed style of gameplay this bastion module and MJD combo will introduce on any level.
3) Insane nerfs to the existing hulls to force the bastion module down our throats

Something towards the direction i'd like to see
1) Keep the rep bonus on the hulls.
2) don't nerf the hulls from their current form in any form ( I mean really, you're taking a currently underutilized black sheep of a ship and nerfing it?? )
3) if you're stuck on this bastion module + MJD i suggest turning the bastion module into a fully offensive role giving bonuses to Damage, ROF, Range, Tracking / Exp Radius / Velocity.
4) As a trade off of having a useful purpose on the bastion module increase the timer for the MJD so you cant instantly MJD, Siege, Unsiege MJD again, Say 60 second siege timer 90sec reuse timer on the MJD.
5) Fix the sensor strength to be inline with other battleships.
6) Maybe reconsider proper tech 2 resists.

V/R
GeeBee
Tarikan
Astrology Club.
Insidious.
#2333 - 2013-09-05 02:56:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarikan
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Time for another update.

We discussed the Marauder situation further and came with the following changes:


  • Shield, armor and hull 30% resistance boosts have been removed on the Bastion Module - instead, all Marauders will now get proper tech2 resists. This will allow Marauders to have better RR use outside Bastion and reduce overall tanking effectiveness inside the mode.

  • We have removed all tanking bonuses on the Marauders hulls (Armor Repairer amount on the Paladin and Kronos, Shield Boost amount on the Golem and Vargur). Instead, we are giving them 7.5% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level. This will not only help reducing their tanking effectiveness, be more in theme with the ship role itself and help anyone using them with short range weapons. We are not giving them a full 10% per level back as this would be extremely powerful in conjunction with the other bonuses / Bastion. We are going to leave the full 10% web strength amount on the Serpentis ships for now and see how things evolve with time.

  • Also, we are removing the mass penalty on the Bastion mode. Tests have shown you can't really turn when it's active anyway, and we don't want to have players abuse that to collapse wormholes.


I will change the OP to match the changes.


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO not my Vargur shield bonus ARRRRGHHH.

While i know many enjoyed their web bonuses i personally never found a need for it so this makes me sad Sad. Isn't the Marauder supposed to have a good rep bonus? or do you want us to use the bastion to have to get the big bonus. I don't really like the fact that it seems, with these changes, are more pressed to use the bastion as a "must" instead of an "option."

although i'm glad to have Tech 2 bonuses...we'll see how this goes i suppose.
Dalilus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2334 - 2013-09-05 02:56:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Dalilus
Atm the only thing keeping Vargurs alive running lvl 4 mission is the 7.5% shield rep ammount per Minnie bs lvl and speed.

Usual basic layout for a solo carebear:

High slots: 800s, maybe a drone range augmenter and a couple of neuts or vamps. Mission runners rarely use or need utility slots.
Mid: ab, asb, invulns, sba, tc with script
Low: dcu, tes, gyros
Rig: shield resists/guns
Drones/ammo: whatever the resist hole is on the npcs being shot
Implants/drugs: whatever tickles your fancy.

Works pretty well until the toon learns that less expensive ships with less sp and less bling run missions faster and with less drama. That is why Vargurs are not very popular for running lvl 4s. For pretty much the price of a Vargur hull one can buy and fit a navy hull with enough bling to outperform a Vargur with 3 bill+ of bling.

Fast forward to the "new" Vargur....what is its niche/point for pve? Warp to mission site, turn on bastion, shoot everything in sight, learn geometry to mjd to gate, rinse, repeat. Devs want us to fit a mjd AND a mwd, really? Weaken the tank further? Roll I don't get it because without the 7.5% shield rep ammount added to the nerf in defences and speed and agility makes an unbastioned Vargur useless once the rats begin shooting. I hope the bastion module can keep the Vargur alive for 60s when on The Assault one misses the triggers and at the end has 5 cardinals, 5 monsenors and a few popes all shooting at you because even with the 7.5% rep one has to quickly bug out.

What is the stasis web thingy for on a Vargur? No one asked for it. Atm a flight of light drones will kill frigs/elite frigs that get past the guns and the 800s will kill any cruiser or larger no mater how close or fast they orbit.

For the nullbears that have to hold hands while they fly in groups this "new" Vargur kind of makes sense, it could also be used by the solo carebears if they want to put up with all the ****** needed to fly it. The question is, why bother?
Ravasta Helugo
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#2335 - 2013-09-05 03:04:34 UTC
I hope this chorus against the 7.5% rep nerf reaches the Dev's ears with the same clarity that the Incursion whiners did.

The original proposed changes were 90% of what was necessary. But I would rather you do nothing than do what is currently proposed.
Cade Windstalker
#2336 - 2013-09-05 03:07:27 UTC
MBizon Osis wrote:
Bastion fits with nothing as it has to nerf the crap out of the 'host ship' in non-bastion mode, nothing has ever been like the bastion mod in the history of the game. And don't forget the MJD it's a magic combo we are are talking about here MJD+Bastion. This is a 100% NEW animal. And true dreads are "designed to lay siege to the largest of all structures in EVE" a feature the bastion is not supposed to be for.

So do it right and put this on its own hull and don't pretend it's a re-balance.


On one point at least we are in agreement, I would rather see Bastion not "nerf the crap out of the host ship" and would rather see the trade-offs and bonuses of the module balance out overall.

However I don't think there is any need to move this on to an entirely new class of ship, just for Bastion to be toned down to more of an optional module as opposed to the forced requirement of the Dreadnaughts.

The Marauders have always been good at tanking, I would love to see a specific module with a cool transformation effect that buffs its tank in exchange for some trade-offs.

hmskrecik wrote:
I do not condemn. I have just given my interpretation of present state. From you comment of choosing damage I guess you're talking about running anoms, where Paladin seems to be indeed at disadvantage. During missions damage chooses you, so it's where Paladin has an advantage, and in incursions and wormholes you omni tank anyway, advantage again.

Also this "more even" T1 profile is because it's much weaker to begin with! I remind you that we're talking about 1 to 3 hardeners on T2 vs. obligatory 3 or even 4 on T1.


No, talking about missions where faction determines what type of damage you deal if you have the option to choose. To some extent it also determines where you're going to mission with a particular ship.

For the Amarr they tend to like to shoot Blood Raiders and Sansha because that's where they deal the most damage. With a T1 ship the resists don't really factor, all T1 ships have the same resists. When you get to full T2 though then you're looking at a pretty big difference in the number of hardeners you have to fit depending on what you're shooting.

If it were simply a trade-off between killing faster and tanking better I wouldn't mind, that's not a bad thing, but the Kronos and Golem don't really have to worry about that. Shooting Guristas? Deal Kin/Therm and tank Kinetic.

In-fact Kinetic or Thermal is one of the two damage types to deal on every NPC faction.

On top of this the Kronos and Golem both have high Kin and Therm resists which also makes up the vast majority of resisted damage in missions as well. So now we're looking at two ships that deal more effective damage AND can tank the rats for those types more effectively and two ships that have to pick. That SUCKS for the people who fly those two ships.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#2337 - 2013-09-05 03:13:19 UTC
Zeus Maximo wrote:
Ravasta Helugo wrote:
Zeus Maximo wrote:
Comparing the old PVE marauders to these changes: what is worse?

smaller drone bay?

37.5% tank nerf.

50% drone bandwidth nerf.

25% speed nerf.

50% mass nerf.

10% HP nerf.

25% web nerf.


You get a 100% rep amount boost

You gained a 80% web for slowing down smaller targets

Old kronos mass = 101,800,000 kg
New kronos mass = 113,160,000 kg

fit propulsion

all marauders get a web bonus

New is obviously better than the old Blink



100% rep bonus, only when sitting still. although considering nearly every self rep mod just got buffed it isn't quite a 37.5% hit. for lv4s most marauders didn't really even need the rep bonus anyways.

ships that didn't really need an 80% web got one, and two ships lost 90% webs for 80%

and yea the mass change isn't anywhere near as bad as some people are making it out to be

should have had a prop mod already, although with base speed and mass nerf you will be going slower.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Zoe Israfil
#2338 - 2013-09-05 03:27:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Zoe Israfil
Ravasta Helugo wrote:
I hope this chorus against the 7.5% rep nerf reaches the Dev's ears with the same clarity that the Incursion whiners did.

The original proposed changes were 90% of what was necessary. But I would rather you do nothing than do what is currently proposed.



I must say I was much more in support of these ships before as well. I dislike the current set up. Though T2 resists are going to be an improvement, I've always viewed marauders as a solo account dream boat. To this day I only have one active account and hope to continue with only one account. The current proposal seems to attempt to make them fleet viable. This seems like a horrible move...

These ships now feel very poorly thought out. At first they were solo towers of accurate long range carnage. I approved very very much. It would seem in an effort to make the fleet viable you have nerfred one of the strongest bonuses on the ship. If the ship is designed to use a bastion module, why would you make it RR friendly? This just does not seem to make sense. In bastion mode they still will be unable to receive RR support, so why nerf the self tank. These now have VERY limited viability even in small/mid gang pvp, an area of ship use I was previously very excited to explore. If you intent to keep the bastion module, can you please design these ships to USE it completely. At first I thought these ships were "just unfocused enough to be interesting", now they truly do seem to have lost all specificity and purpose. If you wish to remove the self-tank bonus, I would please ask of a significant re-think of the bastion module. Please design the ship to be pvp or pve specific (or specif for another task all together).

P.S. By "Self Tank" I'm referring to the 30% resists from the module as well as the 37.5% local tank boost
Onslaughtor
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#2339 - 2013-09-05 03:28:38 UTC
I love the idea of the bastion module but I feel we are getting away from what these ships were conceived and named for.

ma·raud·er
noun
plural noun: marauders

1.
a person who marauds; a raider.

raid·er
noun
noun: raider; plural noun: raiders

1.
a person who attacks an enemy in the enemy's territory; a marauder.


So how do we do this.
Besides cloaking? Because we need less cloaking ships.
Idea?
Some mechanic that removes ones self from local and long range d-scan.


Just think about that for a moment. Its not that OP and would actually allow these ships to operate with some safety and give them something truly specialized. If this was enacted then the current TQ versions of the hulls would actually work and not be to OP or broken.

Anyway just a thought. I was personal good with the first iteration on marauders and bastion. The new version is just far to scattered in its goal.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#2340 - 2013-09-05 03:35:00 UTC
Ravasta Helugo wrote:
Quote:
In L4s you don't need the tank, so just stick with the pirate BS.

That's what I'm going to be forced to do after these changes.

And I don't want to. I love the Paladin. I love the model. I love that it's going to transform into a cool battlestation thingy now. But if it sucks, and it will suck for missioning compared to any number of other ships, then I won't fly it.



I ... what? the paladin is still probably the marauder that gets the best deal out of this thingy. dat optimal bonus! armor reps just got +15% and will get +100% in bastion still. oh yes and a ton of cap! the thing doesn't need the rep bonus for lv4s as is.

also it can do the same dps as the nightmare, and I think I'll take the optimal bonus over the tracking bonus most of the time. not to mention all that cap (again) and the ability to press a button and get +100% reps!

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter