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[Rubicon] Marauder rebalancing

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Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2101 - 2013-09-04 18:56:37 UTC
One minute the forums are full of whining that missiles and blasters can't hit small ships that move fast.

Now you have a web that will slow them down so you can clean them off without having to MJD away and play contrived tracking games.

Only someone who has never fired a large blaster at an orbiting frigate or a torpedo at any frigate would claim that the web bonus is a bad thing.

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Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2102 - 2013-09-04 18:57:17 UTC
Nothing on the phony fake not-real Paldain capacitor bonus? :(
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2103 - 2013-09-04 18:58:02 UTC
Okay it seems more balanced now.

Thing with racial resists is it means ships can be tailored to content. I understand the debate over tank but with the new version but if you want to run content against serpentis then you probably have even stronger tank than before, but still need to make choices depending on the space you are in.

The mass change removal I am unsure about, bumping concerns me and it perhaps would have seemed better to prevent ships in bastion jumping through wormholes.

The hull resist bonus could also have been kept, it only added EHP in a last resort area with seemed appropriate.

Still think you can be smarter with the skill requirements than high energy physics. Advanced Spaceship command seems more appropriate for transforming.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#2104 - 2013-09-04 18:59:14 UTC
Ager Agemo wrote:
people don't understand that Native T2 resist affect indirectly the efficiency of repair modules, why are this kind of players even allowed to post?

the only 2 things I disagree with now, are the MJD stuff that should be replaced with MWD speed, and the target painter bonus on the golem which is already a bit too squeezed in the mid slots.


ah ok i forgot that tech II tank will help my golem against sansha because?

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Jasper Blanch
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2105 - 2013-09-04 19:02:34 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
One minute the forums are full of whining that missiles and blasters can't hit small ships that move fast.

Now you have a web that will slow them down so you can clean them off without having to MJD away and play contrived tracking games.

Only someone who has never fired a large blaster at an orbiting frigate or a torpedo at any frigate would claim that the web bonus is a bad thing.


With an afterburner and selective targeting, most frigs are usually dead before they get near enough to orbit. If they're not, I've got light drones. I've also used smartbombs to effectively deal with close frigs. Nice thing about marauders is all those utility highs. Now throw an MJD on and if it gets really bad, you can just mjd away.
Ravasta Helugo
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#2106 - 2013-09-04 19:02:56 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
One minute the forums are full of whining that missiles and blasters can't hit small ships that move fast.

Now you have a web that will slow them down so you can clean them off without having to MJD away and play contrived tracking games.

Only someone who has never fired a large blaster at an orbiting frigate or a torpedo at any frigate would claim that the web bonus is a bad thing.


When it comes at the expense of 37.5% of my tank it is most certainly a bad thing. Otherwise it would simply be useless, but the latest substitution just makes it bad.
zbaaca
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#2107 - 2013-09-04 19:03:33 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:

Only someone who has never fired a large blaster at an orbiting frigate or a torpedo at any frigate would claim that the web bonus is a bad thing.


okay . explain me that dual marauder golem bonus. for me is freaky stupid combination .

Bugs are opportunities to cause unprecedented amounts of destruction. --Zorgn ♡♡♡

TheFace Asano
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2108 - 2013-09-04 19:05:37 UTC  |  Edited by: TheFace Asano
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
One minute the forums are full of whining that missiles and blasters can't hit small ships that move fast.

Now you have a web that will slow them down so you can clean them off without having to MJD away and play contrived tracking games.

Only someone who has never fired a large blaster at an orbiting frigate or a torpedo at any frigate would claim that the web bonus is a bad thing.



The web bonus is not a bad thing, it just doesn't make any sense with the bastion module on as the main damage projection bonus is not a factor within web range. The original proposal made sense. Yitterbium stated you could hit out to 50-60km with null. Unless the frig has transversal your going to blap him at that range. The web bonus would make more sense if you could use it out to 50km+ where all these ships can hit even with their respective short range systems. The proposal (outside of the tractor beam bonus) had great fusion and weaknesses to balance the strengths.

Keep the current proposal if you want, but make sure that the web bonus works with the full set of bonus for the bastion module. Right now I don't see a reason to turn on the bastion module with a 60 second MJD and webs outside of the local tank boost or EWAR, which will be highly situational at web range. Buffer fit with logi and you wouldn't even think about turning it on and be stronger for leaving it off.
Ravasta Helugo
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#2109 - 2013-09-04 19:07:30 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
One minute the forums are full of whining that incursions are impossible to run without a 90% Web...

Fixed.
Davion Falcon
Those Once Loyal
#2110 - 2013-09-04 19:09:50 UTC
I cannot remember the last time I used/needed a web for PvE in k-space.

Maybe wormhole PvE might have a use for it if they're not already using 90% webs or a different/better set up.

Overall my opinion of the changes is still "meh".

Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise. Never forgotten, never forgiven.
marVLs
#2111 - 2013-09-04 19:11:12 UTC
Until now all ships rebalance was good or even awesome with next iterations, but now... it's still as bad as it was, no real purpose, bonuses that collide with each other in terms of sens and usefulnes, and even if it's T2 it's still not best in even one porpose...


And most of that could fix bastion damage bonus instead of rep bonus
CanI haveyourstuff
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2112 - 2013-09-04 19:14:23 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
We discussed the Marauder situation further and came with the following changes:.


Delete this part:

When in bastion mode, Marauder is immune to EW but cannot be remote assisted in any way
When in bastion mode, Marauder speed is set to 0 m/s, mass is increased by a factor of 10, cannot warp. Also receives a weapons timer that prevents station docking or gate jumping. Weapon time should not require the user to drop weapon safeties in high-sec (being investigated)
Captain Semper
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#2113 - 2013-09-04 19:14:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Semper
Ok, here i am :)

CCP, if you realy want players use Marauders in PvP, you should think about it price... 1+k k k ! Realy? I m better use Mega instead of Kronos. Mobility is most important attribute in PvP and marauders as BS have realy low mobility. And you give them module that will decrease mobility even more!... Ofc MJD with lower activation cycle is cool... But 80 sec in siege make you dead in most situation.
How about 40 sec bastion activation time (30 with skill5). So marauders will be more flexible in PvP and "no change" in PvE in that case.
Make them cheaper. "But cost no matters! People use Tengu fleets!" Well, cost always matters. When fleets clash, only cost difference matter at all. Nobody will use marauders even in small gangs becuase of mobility (gate camp? No, you cant run if something will goes wrong, and you lose 1+ k k k isk).
If you want BS gang you wont use this marauders, becuase you cant heal them with logi (for today like 90% of all gangs have 2+ logi).

So what we have? "Solo" ship that still useless in PvP becuase you cant run if you use "core" mechanic of the ship, 80 sec of double rep (5 T3 will blow you up in 20-30 sec) + you cant move.
In gang it still useless, becuase enemy fire power will grow as well and you cant tank with logi like them. Your enemy just will blow marauders with alpha.

In PvE marauders will be much better. Mb i will even buy Kronos!
George Fox
Society of Conscientious Thought
#2114 - 2013-09-04 19:15:25 UTC
I go against a lot of different types of rats.

The flat 30% resist was a lot more useful than T2 resists.
Also, the changes really detract from the usefulness of Bastion mode.

If you are going to make a bastion mode...MAKE a bastion mode.
Don't gimp it, and then complain later that nobody uses it.
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#2115 - 2013-09-04 19:17:03 UTC
I still can't believe people are complaining about level fours. If you need T2 resists to tank level fours, I don't know how to fix what's wrong with you.

BTW, the Paladin is still far far superior to any turret ship for Amarr space because bastion mode makes you immune to tracking disruptors.
zbaaca
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#2116 - 2013-09-04 19:18:50 UTC
i have a good question. please explain me WHY CNR have 8/7/5 and golem 8/7/4

Bugs are opportunities to cause unprecedented amounts of destruction. --Zorgn ♡♡♡

Gabriel Karade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#2117 - 2013-09-04 19:20:01 UTC
Jesus H Christ in a chicken basket, I just got through the posts complaining about the 'useless' web bonus...

War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293
TheFace Asano
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2118 - 2013-09-04 19:21:41 UTC
George Fox wrote:
I go against a lot of different types of rats.

The flat 30% resist was a lot more useful than T2 resists.
Also, the changes really detract from the usefulness of Bastion mode.

If you are going to make a bastion mode...MAKE a bastion mode.
Don't gimp it, and then complain later that nobody uses it.


Agreed, I don't personally feel that this module will see much use within the current thinking. The people opposed to it before the update now have a ship that performs really well without the module on. I thought the previous version needed some fleshing out, but the added T2 resists and the web bonus seems lazy.
Zeus Maximo
Mentally Assured Destruction
The Pursuit of Happiness
#2119 - 2013-09-04 19:21:51 UTC
Ravasta Helugo wrote:
Battle Cube wrote:

Old Bastion Module Rep = 1873.35 EHP/s
New Bastion Module Rep = 1241.48 EHP/s

Just for fun

Without Bastion Module on (old) 655.67 EHP/s
Without Bastion Module on (new) 620.74 EHP/s


"Buff," isn't it Zeus?


Without Bastion Module on (old) 655.67 EHP/s

New Bastion Module Rep = 1241.48 EHP/s

Yep, double the repping power

"It is not possible either to trick or escape the mind of Zeus."

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TheFace Asano
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2120 - 2013-09-04 19:24:54 UTC
Gabriel Karade wrote:
Jesus H Christ in a chicken basket, I just got through the posts complaining about the 'useless' web bonus...


Not useless, just lacking synergy with the bastion module as currently proposed. They took off the web bonus from the paly and kronos originally because they felt it lacked synergy with what they were trying to accomplish.