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[Rubicon] Marauder rebalancing

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Cade Windstalker
#1221 - 2013-09-01 02:04:38 UTC
Violet Winters wrote:
m0jo wrote:
My only concern here is the vargur losing 1000 hull. Why? It makes no sense at all while all the other ships are either gaining hull or armor in smaller bits but nothing compared to the hull nerf of the vargur. Does it really need that much nerfing? The overall EHP of the vargur is way less than the other ships. Can you not do that please?

Listen if you want to hate on a Minmatar ship then hate on the Wreathe or something. It just isnt right tbh.


Because if a Vargur hits hull it's defiantly going to survive, I mean hell if anything is gonna break the the tank on a Bastion Vargur it's going to a dread which would probably alpha it anyways.


It's probably losing hull to make up for its extremely high base shield resists.

Even with dual ASBs and Bastion you can break the tank with 2-3 Battleships and alpha one off the field with ~8 Tornadoes.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1222 - 2013-09-01 02:13:49 UTC
starbases can be taken down in under a day and if the owner doesn't want to i'm sure certain organisations will just love jumping on as a wardec ally for a chance at marauder kills

what's with all the negative language duder
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#1223 - 2013-09-01 02:43:35 UTC
NiteNinja wrote:
And to add onto my previous post with the Golem and the Torpedoes vs Cruises deliemma... if you're trying to gear the Golem up for Cruise missiles (long range combat), then do something with defender missiles.

1 defender missile = 1/4 of the Golem's DPS, so the Golem will become the weaker of the 4 Marauders if you plan on using it for PVP like the original topic is about. Can't null 1/4 of the ammo on the other 3 ships that easily.

And most NPC's use defenders. More nerfage so the Golem won't be practical for PVE either... >.>

Might as well sell off my ship and go back to a Navy Raven.


with the missile velocity bonus most npc defenders won't be able to hit a cruise missile fired from a golem, and if you have a missile velocity rig and/or missile velocity implant even less so.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Hedor
Aquitaine Holdings
#1224 - 2013-09-01 02:47:29 UTC
Hm.......... I just thought of something, and I'm probably completely off base, but does immunity to ewar also equal immunity to cap neuts?
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#1225 - 2013-09-01 02:48:10 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
I don't like the 5% bonus to capacitor capacity on the Paladin. The bonus is based on the Amarr Battleship skill, so it's always a 25% bonus. It feels like a phony bonus! Please can this be rolled into the hull, and replaced with a second weapon bonus like all the other Marauders? A tracking bonus would be nice.

The Golem gets an explosion velocity bonus, the Vargur gets a tracking bonus and the Kronos gets a tracking bonus. The Paladin's the only one without such an application bonus, and it's using lasers? :(

I don't know tracking or weapons much, and the ship does have the falloff boost from the bastion mod, so I don't know if a tracking bonus for Amarr BS skill would be too powerful? But the 5% capacitor capacity feels like a waste when it's always there and always at 25%.



if I'm not mistaken tachyons track better than 425mm railguns. Just looked and in EFT the tracking bonus on the kronos gets 425s up to 0.01737 where the tach paladin has 0.0174, so with tachs the paladin tracks better than the kronos with 425s.

That said yes please do roll the cap bonus into the hull and give the paladin another bonus!!!

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
VaL Iscariot
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1226 - 2013-09-01 03:28:37 UTC
i'm suddenly training marauders.

also, 90% structure resist? A billion isk worth of lulz await us all. Cool
Nikolai Vodkov
Pro Synergy
#1227 - 2013-09-01 03:31:26 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Just another quick update.


  • We are removing the BASTION TRANSFORMERTHINGIE™ SKILL, as the name was just too awesome to be released to the public (ok ok, more seriously we got the point: having to train a new rank 8 skill just for this module wasn't appealing). Instead, the bastion mode will use high energy physics 4 and energy grid upgrades 5. The former is rank 5, the later you already need to fly the class. The bastion mode cycle time will be reduced to 60s by default to compensate.

  • We hear you regarding having to drop the safeties to use the bastion mode in high-sec - we're going to fix it so you don't have to drop them to use the module. However you'll still receive a weapon timer when activating it.


Adjusting OP to reflect this.

EDIT: remember all of this is subject to change - training high energy physics is at your own risk if the bastion mode skill requirements change.


Merci Monsieur! Big smile

Run level 4 missions?  Increase your income and help new players earn ISK.  Join channel: [b]Pro Synergy Pro Synergy[/b] is looking for dedicated Salvagers.  Want to learn more?  Join channel: Pro Synergy
Dalilus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1228 - 2013-09-01 03:31:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Dalilus
IMO, right now, the best Minnie pve ships for running high-sec lvl 4s solo in descending order are:

-Republic Fleet Typhoon (cruise missiles, xl asb). Kite at 80+ km.
-Machariel (800s, xl asb). Kite at 40+ Km.
-Loki (650s, large asb). 20 Km bladedancer with the ability to get out of Dodge ASAP.
-Vargur (800s, xl asb). 15 Km machete wielder, but toon has to be very carefull of shield ammount and align time.

The Vargur comes in 4th place because it has the agility of a thrown brick (takes forever to turn and align), is slooooow (gets a bloody nose closing in on target), does not have enough cpu (needs a lot of bling with low cpu requirements to get a decent speed/dps/shield fit), base shield ammount is too low and gobbles up considerable ammounts of ammo to do similar dps as the other ships.

So along comes XYZ advised by, I assume, the nullbears and wbears that make up the ABC and between them come up with this idea to 'rebalance Marauders', and what do they do to the already problematic Vargur? Make it SLOWER, make it LESS AGILE, increase POWER GRID (to add mods not used by carebears) not CPU, weaken its DEFENCES and to top it off now want to turn it into a pvp gun tower with a SMALLER drone bay.

Now XYZ and ABC are going to start to wonder why there are so many unhappy and bitter whiners on this thread. It is not too difficult to figure out why high-sec carebears are not impressed by the proposed changes. Don't nerf ships or play style in lieu of lack of content, because most carebear toons with 100 million+ skill points have trained everything they need to lvl 5 and then some and if they are not already in low, null or w space then they are not interested in visiting, moving or exploring that content....even if their Marauder turns into an entry level Dreadnought.

As more and more toons reach 100 mill+ sp Eve will suffer unless more content is provided. For example it can take a noob 6+ hours to finish a Blockade or Buzz Kill, a vet needs a bit more than an hour, including looting and salvaging, unless they fly a Vargur. Then it takes closer to 2 hours. Need another example? Blobs. Bigger and bigger blobs with no end in sight. Want to fix blobs? Bring back the old doomsday. Battles would take minutes instead of hours under 10% tidi once the blob of titans arrives.
Elizabeth Aideron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1229 - 2013-09-01 03:59:09 UTC
VaL Iscariot wrote:
i'm suddenly training marauders.

also, 90% structure resist? A billion isk worth of lulz await us all. Cool



Modules don't stack that way. (1 - 0.6) * (1 - 0.3) = 0.28
Cade Windstalker
#1230 - 2013-09-01 04:07:35 UTC
VaL Iscariot wrote:
i'm suddenly training marauders.

also, 90% structure resist? A billion isk worth of lulz await us all. Cool



72% Structure Resists. Check your math again.
Gwen Ambraelle
Last Train From Cadspugh
#1231 - 2013-09-01 04:22:04 UTC
I'm amazed at all the complaining.

These things are going to be great at the following;

- Wormhole Anoms up to C3's (maybe C4's)
- All L4 Missions
- Epic Arc's / COSMOS
- LV5's

I can't speak for DED sites as I've not enough experience, but from what I understand of them, they should great there too.

Any arguments to say that these things are going to be useless in PvE are just beyond me.

And as for PvP, doing WH's anoms gives you lots of that. L5's would do the same.

I can see these things being used all over W-Space.

No ship should be good at everything, asking for that is just silly. But they will excel in some area's, and that's fine.

I say all of of the above as a Pally pilot who is perfectly happy with it as it is now.
Battle Cube
Cube Collective
#1232 - 2013-09-01 04:24:34 UTC
Gwen Ambraelle wrote:
I'm amazed at all the complaining.

These things are going to be great at the following;

- Wormhole Anoms up to C3's (maybe C4's)
- All L4 Missions
- Epic Arc's / COSMOS
- LV5's

I can't speak for DED sites as I've not enough experience, but from what I understand of them, they should great there too.

Any arguments to say that these things are going to be useless in PvE are just beyond me.

And as for PvP, doing WH's anoms gives you lots of that. L5's would do the same.

I can see these things being used all over W-Space.

No ship should be good at everything, asking for that is just silly. But they will excel in some area's, and that's fine.

I say all of of the above as a Pally pilot who is perfectly happy with it as it is now.


Its not that they are useless in PVE, its that other ships are/will be Better, but at a lower cost and sp requirement. The problem is that there isn't anything that makes these worthwhile, no matter how viable they are, at least for *some* pve.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1233 - 2013-09-01 04:27:58 UTC
Battle Cube wrote:
Gwen Ambraelle wrote:
I'm amazed at all the complaining.

These things are going to be great at the following;

- Wormhole Anoms up to C3's (maybe C4's)
- All L4 Missions
- Epic Arc's / COSMOS
- LV5's

I can't speak for DED sites as I've not enough experience, but from what I understand of them, they should great there too.

Any arguments to say that these things are going to be useless in PvE are just beyond me.

And as for PvP, doing WH's anoms gives you lots of that. L5's would do the same.

I can see these things being used all over W-Space.

No ship should be good at everything, asking for that is just silly. But they will excel in some area's, and that's fine.

I say all of of the above as a Pally pilot who is perfectly happy with it as it is now.


Its not that they are useless in PVE, its that other ships are/will be Better, but at a lower cost and sp requirement. The problem is that there isn't anything that makes these worthwhile, no matter how viable they are, at least for *some* pve.

If it weren't for there horrid align time they could be used solo in low sec fairly well, but with a best 12.1 second align time they will be tackled too fast to be worth 1b+ ship when there are, like you said, cheaper ships that can do almost as well.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Gwen Ambraelle
Last Train From Cadspugh
#1234 - 2013-09-01 04:33:59 UTC
Battle Cube wrote:
Gwen Ambraelle wrote:
I'm amazed at all the complaining.

These things are going to be great at the following;

- Wormhole Anoms up to C3's (maybe C4's)
- All L4 Missions
- Epic Arc's / COSMOS
- LV5's

I can't speak for DED sites as I've not enough experience, but from what I understand of them, they should great there too.

Any arguments to say that these things are going to be useless in PvE are just beyond me.

And as for PvP, doing WH's anoms gives you lots of that. L5's would do the same.

I can see these things being used all over W-Space.

No ship should be good at everything, asking for that is just silly. But they will excel in some area's, and that's fine.

I say all of of the above as a Pally pilot who is perfectly happy with it as it is now.


Its not that they are useless in PVE, its that other ships are/will be Better, but at a lower cost and sp requirement. The problem is that there isn't anything that makes these worthwhile, no matter how viable they are, at least for *some* pve.


L5 mission solo - What other ship would be more effective?
C3/4 Sites solo - What other ship would be more effective?
Amarr Epic with all their (^^$%$&()*& TD's - What ship would be better?
The Assault with all their ^*%$*&&^ Jammers - What ship would be better?

I could go on, but the point is that if you have the skills, these changes are very intriguing.
Melek D'Ivri
Illuminated Overwatch Group
#1235 - 2013-09-01 04:52:57 UTC
Love the bastion module, love the Kronos range bonuses, love the FINALLY arty vargur, quite happy about the 8th slot.

I was really afraid you guys would break Marauders, but I'm quite impressed and very happy with what I see, it makes my decision to pilot a marauder very satisfactory.

Now can I ask for 72 km tractors! Pirate
Leskit
Pure Victory
#1236 - 2013-09-01 05:13:17 UTC
Hedor wrote:
Hm.......... I just thought of something, and I'm probably completely off base, but does immunity to ewar also equal immunity to cap neuts?

Historically, no. Siege and triage do not make you immune to neuts/nos; it's one of two effective ways to kill triage/sieged dreds: neuts, or more dps than they can rep. It's technically capacitor warfare, not electronic warfare.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1237 - 2013-09-01 05:23:33 UTC
I was just reading a post in the Missions and Complexes forum and something one poster said made me chuckle.

The Bastion module should be renamed to "CAM-B" module, because once you activate it it's like saying "Come at me, Bro" Big smile.
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Horse Feathers
CAStabouts
#1238 - 2013-09-01 05:27:49 UTC
Gwen Ambraelle wrote:
L5 mission solo - What other ship would be more effective?

we're not 100% sure you'll be able to do that yet...

Quote:
C3/4 Sites solo - What other ship would be more effective?

Doubt these could solo any better than a Tengu. Neuts, remember?

Quote:
Amarr Epic with all their (^^$%$&()*& TD's - What ship would be better?

Fleet Phoon ftw

Quote:
The Assault with all their ^*%$*&&^ Jammers - What ship would be better?

Pretty much any faction battleship or T3 with an ECCM does fine...their jamming strength hovers between 2 and 5. Bonus F.O.F. on missile ships.

thhief ghabmoef
Cade Windstalker
#1239 - 2013-09-01 05:28:46 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Battle Cube wrote:

Its not that they are useless in PVE, its that other ships are/will be Better, but at a lower cost and sp requirement. The problem is that there isn't anything that makes these worthwhile, no matter how viable they are, at least for *some* pve.

If it weren't for there horrid align time they could be used solo in low sec fairly well, but with a best 12.1 second align time they will be tackled too fast to be worth 1b+ ship when there are, like you said, cheaper ships that can do almost as well.


The basic Raven has an align time of 16.5 seconds, Navy Raven 16.2, and Scorpion Navy Issue 18s.

All three are popular missioning Battleships, none of them aligns out at max skills any faster than 10.9 seconds at maxed skills. If that extra second is what saves your ship then you should have fit a Nano.

These are Battleships. They are not going to align quickly.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1240 - 2013-09-01 05:46:02 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Battle Cube wrote:

Its not that they are useless in PVE, its that other ships are/will be Better, but at a lower cost and sp requirement. The problem is that there isn't anything that makes these worthwhile, no matter how viable they are, at least for *some* pve.

If it weren't for there horrid align time they could be used solo in low sec fairly well, but with a best 12.1 second align time they will be tackled too fast to be worth 1b+ ship when there are, like you said, cheaper ships that can do almost as well.


The basic Raven has an align time of 16.5 seconds, Navy Raven 16.2, and Scorpion Navy Issue 18s.

All three are popular missioning Battleships, none of them aligns out at max skills any faster than 10.9 seconds at maxed skills. If that extra second is what saves your ship then you should have fit a Nano.

These are Battleships. They are not going to align quickly.


So long as I can get the kronos to keep up with cruisers I'll be happy.