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Is such allowed in duel?
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Chin MonWang
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-09-01 02:57:29 UTC
Recently I was enjoying a duel (limited engagement) in high sec in front of a station. My load-out must have been a surprise to my opponent, so I destroyed his ship. I left his pod untouched and thought the duel was over. The timer for the limited engagement was not finished yet. And then, what happened: within some 40 seconds later the very same person seemed to be back again(???) with - as I later on learned on killboard - a total different ship + load-out (this time of course fully exploiting the very one weakness of my load-out, since he got to know that exactly in the first fight) and my ship was destroyed, as a logical consequence.

So, this happened: the opponent was podded, went in the station, took another ship (for sure exploiting my load-out weakness) ----> got out again while timer of the limited engagement still running ------> and this way he got an easy winning with another but now fully customized ship/loadout (???) under 'limited engagement conditions'?

When i saw that opponent coming at me for the second time (on my overview), and orange blinking (so I knew he could shoot at me, and I allways have my green safety button on) my first thought: his ship was not destroyed?, was I mistaken?, did he warp out the first time?

Tried to look it up in EVE UNI but could not find the answer to my question. Can any one enlighten me whether the above is fully in accordance with regulations of 'limited engagements'?
KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
#2 - 2013-09-01 03:03:43 UTC
If the engagement timer was still going, then yes it is in accordance.

Think of it like this...

You screwed yourself by wallowing in your glory, undocked, with a timer going.

Hubris.

Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.
Kehro Urgus
Dark Nebula Academy
O X I D E
#3 - 2013-09-01 03:05:07 UTC
Yes.

Yeeee! 
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#4 - 2013-09-01 03:05:22 UTC
Taking advantage of another player's stupidity is not against the rules.

Oh god.
Shederov Blood
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
#5 - 2013-09-01 03:07:10 UTC
Yes, that's how it works. While your opponent was refitting, you could have been warping away, or waiting out your docking timer.
By the way, if you "left his pod untouched," then he was not "podded."

Who put the goat in there?
Chin MonWang
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2013-09-01 03:16:47 UTC
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:
If the engagement timer was still going, then yes it is in accordance.

Think of it like this...

You screwed yourself by wallowing in your glory, undocked, with a timer going.

Hubris.


When I destroyed his ship at that time the 'limited engagement' was over (at least, that is the way it is stated). Took him less than 40 seconds to get another ship and come back? Is this fair play? Are new players even informed that some players will trick them that way (even in a duel limited engament)?

I do not bother loosing or winning, I intend to play occasionally for just fun (as many do) and I loose ships all the time, loosing billions totalling worth. Do I bother? No, since I enjoy it as long it is fun.

But, a player sneeking inside a station, getting another ship?? Come back and 'winning' that way??? Are those players do this for a"' living'????? We are talking a duel here! Just a game for fun and some enjoyment.

Anyway, I just want to know if the regulations were applied here.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#7 - 2013-09-01 03:18:51 UTC
The engagement lasts for 5 minutes.

Oh god.
Chin MonWang
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2013-09-01 03:20:05 UTC
Shederov Blood wrote:
Yes, that's how it works. While your opponent was refitting, you could have been warping away, or waiting out your docking timer.
By the way, if you "left his pod untouched," then he was not "podded."


I used the language in the wrong way: meant I put him in his POD. Did not shoot his pod, I never intend doing so in any duel.

I now learned 'podded' means destroyed a POD..but that was not what I meant to say. So I obviously used the wrong word.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#9 - 2013-09-01 03:21:49 UTC
Never not be reshipping

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Chin MonWang
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2013-09-01 03:25:49 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
The engagement lasts for 5 minutes.


Well, funny. Must take a very fanatic person to only duel in front some station having other ships 'on stand-by' so he could have an unfair 'second chance' to win??hahahaha How silly this is (and all for some killboard points). Again: do such players think they do this for a living??? Real funny.

Anyway, it does not bother me at all, I just learned about possibilities I did not even know to be in existence. I hope that new players will be properly informed about such tricks (even in a limited engagement duel???)....funny.

Think I have my answers now. I am realy surprised.

Thank you all for your kind explanations. Cheers!
Trudeaux Margaret
University of Caille
#11 - 2013-09-01 03:30:43 UTC
Chin MonWang wrote:
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:
If the engagement timer was still going, then yes it is in accordance.

Think of it like this...

You screwed yourself by wallowing in your glory, undocked, with a timer going.

Hubris.


When I destroyed his ship at that time the 'limited engagement' was over (at least, that is the way it is stated). Took him less than 40 seconds to get another ship and come back? Is this fair play? Are new players even informed that some players will trick them that way (even in a duel limited engament)?

I do not bother loosing or winning, I intend to play occasionally for just fun (as many do) and I loose ships all the time, loosing billions totalling worth. Do I bother? No, since I enjoy it as long it is fun.

But, a player sneeking inside a station, getting another ship?? Come back and 'winning' that way??? Are those players do this for a"' living'????? We are talking a duel here! Just a game for fun and some enjoyment.

Anyway, I just want to know if the regulations were applied here.


Honestly, there would not have been any way for the other player to have known that you were going to hang around undocked after the fight, now would there? Doesn't it make more sense that he reshipped in hopes of asking for another duel - and then got incredibly lucky to find you still there and the original timer still running?

Be more careful next time.

> anyone willing to give me like a 5 min politics crash course?

> grr goons, lowsec is full of elitist sh*s, all roads lead to the bittervet pl
KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
#12 - 2013-09-01 03:41:44 UTC
Trudeaux Margaret wrote:
Chin MonWang wrote:


When I destroyed his ship at that time the 'limited engagement' was over (at least, that is the way it is stated). Took him less than 40 seconds to get another ship and come back? Is this fair play? Are new players even informed that some players will trick them that way (even in a duel limited engament)?

I do not bother loosing or winning, I intend to play occasionally for just fun (as many do) and I loose ships all the time, loosing billions totalling worth. Do I bother? No, since I enjoy it as long it is fun.

But, a player sneeking inside a station, getting another ship?? Come back and 'winning' that way??? Are those players do this for a"' living'????? We are talking a duel here! Just a game for fun and some enjoyment.

Anyway, I just want to know if the regulations were applied here.


Honestly, there would not have been any way for the other player to have known that you were going to hang around undocked after the fight, now would there? Doesn't it make more sense that he reshipped in hopes of asking for another duel - and then got incredibly lucky to find you still there and the original timer still running?

Be more careful next time.



Exactly, you bounce celestials especially in those cases when pvp aggression is running. Whether winning or losing, is not the point. I am glad you can take losing well...it goes a long way in the game, and makes sure people stay. So kudos to you for that.

However, it is still hubris to believe that you could just sit, basking in glory, and that your opponent would not reship. If it were me, and I still had 2-3 minutes on a timer, you be damn sure I would try to speed re-ship. Just like you could be damn sure in your case that I would be bouncing off of safes, celestials, and whatever else I could, until said timer was depleted.

Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#13 - 2013-09-01 04:04:15 UTC
Chin MonWang wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
The engagement lasts for 5 minutes.


Well, funny. Must take a very fanatic person to only duel in front some station having other ships 'on stand-by' so he could have an unfair 'second chance' to win??hahahaha How silly this is (and all for some killboard points). Again: do such players think they do this for a living??? Real funny.

Anyway, it does not bother me at all, I just learned about possibilities I did not even know to be in existence. I hope that new players will be properly informed about such tricks (even in a limited engagement duel???)....funny.

Think I have my answers now. I am realy surprised.

Thank you all for your kind explanations. Cheers!


Just checked: I have 37 hulls and modules ready in my home station. It takes about ten seconds to fit one, insure and undock. Nothing unusual so what do you expect?

Or perhaps you fly to the hub each time you lose a ship (probably in your pod) and buy a whole new loadout direct from sell orders?

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Chin MonWang
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2013-09-01 04:24:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Chin MonWang
>>>#12
Exactly, you bounce celestials especially in those cases when pvp aggression is running. Whether winning or losing, is not the point. I am glad you can take losing well...it goes a long way in the game, and makes sure people stay. So kudos to you for that.

However, it is still hubris to believe that you could just sit, basking in glory, and that your opponent would not reship. If it were me, and I still had 2-3 minutes on a timer, you be damn sure I would try to speed re-ship. Just like you could be damn sure in your case that I would be bouncing off of safes, celestials, and whatever else I could, until said timer was depleted.[/quote]<<<<<<<

Well, as I already stated, I myself don't mind losing ships as long as it is entertaining, fun; and I must say I much enjoyed the above described fights, both that is. It was just, that I was curious to learn in a more exact way about the precize possibilities and non-possibilities about the limited engagement duel regulations, but reading some in EVE UNI did not fully clarify, so I placed the question here. I got the explanations now, so all fine to me. Maybe, as a suggestion to benefit new and future players of EVE: shouldn't it be a good idea to more clearly mention it in EVE UNI also? Just a constructive thought. Regard this thread as closed now.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#15 - 2013-09-01 05:03:36 UTC
Chin MonWang wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
The engagement lasts for 5 minutes.


Well, funny. Must take a very fanatic person to only duel in front some station having other ships 'on stand-by' so he could have an unfair 'second chance' to win??hahahaha How silly this is (and all for some killboard points). Again: do such players think they do this for a living??? Real funny.

Not really. Most "good" PvPers have about 40+ ships that are fit up and ready to undock in less than 10 seconds. I personally have about 90-something ships ranging from frigates to battleships. And I'm just a lowly Faction Warfare grunt (you should see my CEOs hanger Shocked).

Always remember... in EVE there is only winning or making your enemy pay dearly for winning. Twisted

How did you Veterans start?
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#16 - 2013-09-01 05:35:08 UTC
Chin MonWang wrote:
Anyway, it does not bother me at all, I just learned about possibilities I did not even know to be in existence. I hope that new players will be properly informed about such tricks (even in a limited engagement duel???)....funny.


You have made an assumption that a limited engagement deals with some limitations to the duration of the engagement: this is incorrect.

A "Limited Engagement" means that the fight is limited to the people in the duel (or other scenario which initiates a Limited Engagement). The timer starts (you will see the timer in the top left of the screen) and during that time all combat is allowed between the people in the limited engagement.

The specifics for duels start here: http://www.eveonline.com/retribution/dueling/

Note that the timer lasts five minutes after the last shot is fired.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#17 - 2013-09-01 06:14:05 UTC
Chin MonWang wrote:
Recently I was enjoying a duel (limited engagement) in high sec in front of a station. My load-out must have been a surprise to my opponent, so I destroyed his ship. I left his pod untouched and thought the duel was over. The timer for the limited engagement was not finished yet. And then, what happened: within some 40 seconds later the very same person seemed to be back again(???) with - as I later on learned on killboard - a total different ship + load-out (this time of course fully exploiting the very one weakness of my load-out, since he got to know that exactly in the first fight) and my ship was destroyed, as a logical consequence.

So, this happened: the opponent was podded, went in the station, took another ship (for sure exploiting my load-out weakness) ----> got out again while timer of the limited engagement still running ------> and this way he got an easy winning with another but now fully customized ship/loadout (???) under 'limited engagement conditions'?

When i saw that opponent coming at me for the second time (on my overview), and orange blinking (so I knew he could shoot at me, and I allways have my green safety button on) my first thought: his ship was not destroyed?, was I mistaken?, did he warp out the first time?

Tried to look it up in EVE UNI but could not find the answer to my question. Can any one enlighten me whether the above is fully in accordance with regulations of 'limited engagements'?


It's called a "timer" for a reason.

Signature removed - CCP Eterne
KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
#18 - 2013-09-01 07:31:36 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:

Not really. Most "good" PvPers have about 40+ ships that are fit up and ready to undock in less than 10 seconds. I personally have about 90-something ships ranging from frigates to battleships. And I'm just a lowly Faction Warfare grunt (you should see my CEOs hanger Shocked).

Always remember... in EVE there is only winning or making your enemy pay dearly for winning. Twisted


^^^^^This^^^^^ 100x This.

Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.
Stahl Rise
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2013-09-01 09:10:16 UTC
If it was done, the answer to the OP is: "yes, it can be done".
The lesson to learn here is not about duel rules, it's about what I just said. Learn it well and you'll survive EVE.
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#20 - 2013-09-01 09:25:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagrat Skalski
Trudeaux Margaret wrote:
Chin MonWang wrote:
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:
If the engagement timer was still going, then yes it is in accordance.

Think of it like this...

You screwed yourself by wallowing in your glory, undocked, with a timer going.

Hubris.


When I destroyed his ship at that time the 'limited engagement' was over (at least, that is the way it is stated). Took him less than 40 seconds to get another ship and come back? Is this fair play? Are new players even informed that some players will trick them that way (even in a duel limited engament)?

I do not bother loosing or winning, I intend to play occasionally for just fun (as many do) and I loose ships all the time, loosing billions totalling worth. Do I bother? No, since I enjoy it as long it is fun.

But, a player sneeking inside a station, getting another ship?? Come back and 'winning' that way??? Are those players do this for a"' living'????? We are talking a duel here! Just a game for fun and some enjoyment.

Anyway, I just want to know if the regulations were applied here.


Honestly, there would not have been any way for the other player to have known that you were going to hang around undocked after the fight, now would there? Doesn't it make more sense that he reshipped in hopes of asking for another duel - and then got incredibly lucky to find you still there and the original timer still running?

Be more careful next time.



Be smarter next time, and after succesful fight, reship in the completely new fitting, good for countering him countering your past fit, so when he come back, he will lose another one, hoping you will be in the same fitting.

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
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