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[Rubicon] Marauder rebalancing

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Medarr
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1121 - 2013-08-31 14:08:09 UTC
Lookin good I like the idea of a mini dread.
Danica Fox
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1122 - 2013-08-31 14:26:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Danica Fox
another issue is lock range no marauder gets 100km lock range

so a sebo is eating up at least 1 slot as we supposed to use it @ 100+ ish ranges
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#1123 - 2013-08-31 14:39:09 UTC
Danica Fox wrote:
another issue is lock range no marauder gets 100km lock range

so a sebo is eating up at least 1 slot as we supposed to use it @ 100+ ish ranges



Your Forum-Fu is weak. Actually, the Vargur WILL have more than 100km of locking range. And even then, you'd just have to drop the Scan-Res Script of one Sensor Booster, and you're fine again.


Also, there are scenarios (mostly small to mid-scale), where the Vargur for example will be INCREDIBLY viable for PvP. The only thing getting dangerous here will be scrams (you have 3 mediums slots which can either be filled by 3 Heavy Neuts in Autocannon fit, or 3 Medium Neuts if 1400mm) and Alpha of 87k JUST FOR THE SHIELDS at their Range. Tornados will be usually in hard falloff here already. So you're looking at 20 Nados or so just to be able to go through a Vargur's shields. Which will then, if Crystal'd, recharge 4500 raw shield, which translates into 28k EHP every 4.25 Seconds. Which is 6600 DPS tank. For 9 charges. Which is 34 Seconds of Shield-Boosts coming until you run out of charges, which leaves your enemies a time-frame of 26 seconds to burn through your EHP before you drop out of Siege and MJD away cause you're not scramed, or get Logi-Love again at a resistance profile each normal t1 BS (except for Abaddons and Rokhs) is jealous at.

But that's just me, efting. And probably throwing into battle several times with Winter.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#1124 - 2013-08-31 14:40:02 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
so when in bastion mode does it get bonuses from warfare links?


Should, though most link bonuses are subject to normal stacking-penalty rules for their bonus type, so 2 Invuls and then a resist link doesn't get you much.


well if you can't rep it why should it get to benefit from links?

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Kikusama
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1125 - 2013-08-31 14:54:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Kikusama
Kikusama wrote:
Looks good in general with 2 addendums:
- 400-500% increase in DPS whilst in bastion mode will put these right between normal battleships and dreadnoughts;
- they all need 90% webs.

Basically with a fleet of these you'd get what you'd get with tracking dreads and vindis, only a lot more mobile.

PvE wise this would make these preferable to pirate battleships, without really trampling all over their territory (if you want to blitz stuff you can still use the Mach for example, if you want to obliterate everything bastion up a Vargur).



Quoting myself and adding in stuff.

If you're worried about the huge DPS increase, give the bastion module a tracking penalty, so it can hit caps/supercaps and miss on smaller stuff.

Also, this might be a cool counter to supercaps, instead of dropping 50 dreads, drop 100 marauders, yes/no? With these things taking minimal damage from fighters/fighter-bombers, should be p. interesting Twisted

LE: Better yet, drop the bastion module, make the siege module a non-capital module and make it fittable to Marauders with a decreased damage bonus (1/2 of what the damage bonus is on Dreads). Make it consume less stront as well when fitted to Marauders. No need for an additional skill. Cheaper counter to caps/supercaps than dreads, limited by the limited insurance payout.

Guns make the news. Science doesn't.
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#1126 - 2013-08-31 15:00:23 UTC
The Problem is without Logi the 50 Marauders would die faster then the 2-3 Supercaps you where aming, and please stop making the PvE King into a Über PvP Vessel. Its still a T2 Ship.

Meet the Mario Kart 8 - Capsuleer Club Cup
Kikusama
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1127 - 2013-08-31 15:01:22 UTC
Lephia DeGrande wrote:
The Problem is without Logi the 50 Marauders would die faster then the 2-3 Supercaps you where aming, and please stop making the PvE King into a Über PvP Vessel. Its still a T2 Ship.


Not to supercarriers or titans, remember the nerfs.

Guns make the news. Science doesn't.
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#1128 - 2013-08-31 15:06:19 UTC
If you want your quadrillion dps Monster wait for Black Ops changes, leave my Paladin alone! ;-)

Meet the Mario Kart 8 - Capsuleer Club Cup
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#1129 - 2013-08-31 15:19:56 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
so when in bastion mode does it get bonuses from warfare links?


Should, though most link bonuses are subject to normal stacking-penalty rules for their bonus type, so 2 Invuls and then a resist link doesn't get you much.


well if you can't rep it why should it get to benefit from links?


Why not? Bastion mode is somehow interferes with incoming remote rep beams, but sensors and other electronic systems are fine. Links represent specialized superior management of ship systems, so work on communication channels. At least as far as fluff is concerned.

Mechanically links don't stack like remote reps do.

I'd personally love to see the bastion concept pushed further into it throwing a field that protected other ships the same way, so that the Marauder anchored a small fleet with superior defense. Base the projected bastion bonus off leadership skills.

I'd also love to see the opposite, where it had a series of offensive ae modules that threw web bubbles, neut bubbles, etc... Making it the center of an offensive front, and a bit more appropriate to the class name of marauder.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1130 - 2013-08-31 15:52:55 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
so when in bastion mode does it get bonuses from warfare links?


Should, though most link bonuses are subject to normal stacking-penalty rules for their bonus type, so 2 Invuls and then a resist link doesn't get you much.


well if you can't rep it why should it get to benefit from links?


Why don't apples taste like oranges?

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#1131 - 2013-08-31 16:08:35 UTC
Adwokat Diabla wrote:
These will be:

-broken for pve, especially plexing, and probably whing
-impossible for any small gang to break
-medium/large fleets will just scram and probably alpha through any self-given reps

These just don't seem like a good addition to the game.


after sleeping on it, i tend to agree with this one. the bonuses to resists and repairs are so over the top that marauders become the ultimate solo pve pimpmobile bar none, obsoleting all other hulls. in incursions they lose their role as web providers to the vindicator and are thus if not useless, then at least strongly disadvantaged.
in pvp, their designed play style may or may not shake up the meta game but my guess is that players who can afford to pvp with a 1bil hull will not give up their mobility advantage for some range and active reps.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Elisheva Cohane
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1132 - 2013-08-31 16:14:01 UTC
Will you still need the racial BS skill to 5 for all Marauders, or will there be a reduction similar to Carriers?
Kaeden Dourhand
Raven's Sway
#1133 - 2013-08-31 16:19:30 UTC
Interesting radio silence from the dev side.

Are you disregarding the noise from the community CCP, or are you simply debating things internally atm?
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1134 - 2013-08-31 16:23:32 UTC
Kikusama wrote:
Kikusama wrote:
Looks good in general with 2 addendums:
- 400-500% increase in DPS whilst in bastion mode will put these right between normal battleships and dreadnoughts;
- they all need 90% webs.

Basically with a fleet of these you'd get what you'd get with tracking dreads and vindis, only a lot more mobile.

PvE wise this would make these preferable to pirate battleships, without really trampling all over their territory (if you want to blitz stuff you can still use the Mach for example, if you want to obliterate everything bastion up a Vargur).



Quoting myself and adding in stuff.

If you're worried about the huge DPS increase, give the bastion module a tracking penalty, so it can hit caps/supercaps and miss on smaller stuff.

Also, this might be a cool counter to supercaps, instead of dropping 50 dreads, drop 100 marauders, yes/no? With these things taking minimal damage from fighters/fighter-bombers, should be p. interesting Twisted

LE: Better yet, drop the bastion module, make the siege module a non-capital module and make it fittable to Marauders with a decreased damage bonus (1/2 of what the damage bonus is on Dreads). Make it consume less stront as well when fitted to Marauders. No need for an additional skill. Cheaper counter to caps/supercaps than dreads, limited by the limited insurance payout.


I think the idea is to make them more appealing to the pvp masses, not more niche.

A 25% damage increase would truly make them a mini dread and it's not like they would be stepping on the toes of pirate faction battleships, because they can only do that damage in bastion (stupid name btw).

The real shame is that the increased mass makes then unviable for wormhole pvp :(

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Zaxix
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1135 - 2013-08-31 16:27:22 UTC
Kaeden Dourhand wrote:
Interesting radio silence from the dev side.

Are you disregarding the noise from the community CCP, or are you simply debating things internally atm?

If you're going to criticize their response time, perhaps you should go back through the thread. Go to the OP and click the blue dev tag. It will take you to the next dev tag and so on. They've already done quite a few things.

Bokononist

 
Zaxix
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1136 - 2013-08-31 16:31:24 UTC
Lephia DeGrande wrote:
I am a sadpuppy that 80% of this Thread is just ignorant or "to-stupid-to-read", please no changes CCP we dont want something New we just want just better and more expensive **** like in WoW, bigger is better, T3>T1 at any means give us MOAR!!!!!


Complaining about complaining. How meta

Bokononist

 
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1137 - 2013-08-31 16:34:33 UTC
Kaeden Dourhand wrote:
Interesting radio silence from the dev side.

Are you disregarding the noise from the community CCP, or are you simply debating things internally atm?


Now I am not a big fan of the proposal but it is Saturday. I certainly don't expect any posts till Monday.
EXIA MIKOSZ
Strike Birds Zero
#1138 - 2013-08-31 16:36:30 UTC
Zaxix wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Just another quick update.


  • We are removing the BASTION TRANSFORMERTHINGIE™ SKILL, as the name was just too awesome to be released to the public (ok ok, more seriously we got the point: having to train a new rank 8 skill just for this module wasn't appealing). Instead, the bastion mode will use high energy physics 4 and energy grid upgrades 5. The former is rank 5, the later you already need to fly the class. The bastion mode cycle time will be reduced to 60s by default to compensate.

  • We hear you regarding having to drop the safeties to use the bastion mode in high-sec - we're going to fix it so you don't have to drop them to use the module. However you'll still receive a weapon timer when activating it.


Adjusting OP to reflect this.

EDIT: remember all of this is subject to change - training high energy physics is at your own risk if the bastion mode skill requirements change.

I like this quick feedback thing. More please!

swap tractor for something awesome


If you don't Use Tractor on Marauders doesn't mean they are useless for other Players
Why many of you Crying about this Tractor Bonus?Its Small thing but very usefull for many of us
As you Can See CCP like to keep this so Please..............
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1139 - 2013-08-31 16:52:48 UTC
Yo ccp, i know you sometimes feel the need to listen to player feedback. That's great and all, and though I too have felt the sting of feeling like I'm not bieng listened to (Blood Raider Naval Ship yard damn it! :) ) but this one time I'll say this: STAY THE COURSE.

You're trying to bring something new and interesting to a class of sub-capital ships that never been seen in this game before. Like you did with the loot spew/exploration mini-game and other things, you guys really need to stick to your guns. people tend to be very "reactionary" when you change something they think is mostly fine or that they benefit from, and you are seeing that reaction right here right now.

Keep up the good work.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#1140 - 2013-08-31 16:56:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
The more I look at the idea the more it seems to me its a great idea hamstrung by being applied to the wrong ships and the wrong platform (marauders).

Its a perfect fit for the hyperion, rokh, maelstrom and abaddon hulls - hyperion hull especially would finally get the kind of ability the hull looks like it was designed for, the golem for instance has so many issues with this kind of use.

Can be designed to better fit in with the skill train towards dreads than marauder skills are - which would be a good niche for these type of ships.

Can be priced at a level that would see them used more in PVP - typical marauder prices don't really lend themselves well to this style.

Can be given bonuses and abilities that better enhance the bastion mode to make them useful in both PVE and PVP without the effectiveness being reduced by working around the legacy implementation of the current marauder styles.

All in all seems like the idea would live upto its full potential better by being a new T2 line of battleships than as an evolution of the marauder.

IMO for marauders to live upto what they are supposed to be they need to be made to some extent modular - possibly that means Tech3 but I don't think they need to go to the extent of strategic cruisers i.e. only 2-3 sub-systems per type - the ability to have some granularity between PVP and PVE use in their bonuses* is needed as well as the ability to compromise between sensor strength and ewar strength bonuses - along with some kind of overheating bonus/feature which gives them that hard hitting ability but without the capability to sustain it as per the description.


* As an example defensive sub-systems would give you the choice of - large local rep bonus + sig reduction bonus (PVP and PVE), medium local rep bonus + industry bonuses (PVE), extra buffer (pure PVP).