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[Rubicon] Marauder rebalancing

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Danica Fox
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1101 - 2013-08-31 12:55:57 UTC
no dev posts in a long time wondering what they think could we have a update please?
Ammzi
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#1102 - 2013-08-31 12:58:31 UTC
It is set in stone. 1.1 is about to be released so they won't be doing any changes till then. 3rd september is release date if you didn't know already.
MisterNick
The Sagan Clan
#1103 - 2013-08-31 13:07:01 UTC
Ammzi wrote:
It is set in stone. 1.1 is about to be released so they won't be doing any changes till then. 3rd september is release date if you didn't know already.


Yeah, except the title of the thread has the word Winter in it - these aren't going in Odyssey 1.1Roll

"Human beings make life so interesting. Do you know that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to invent boredom."
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#1104 - 2013-08-31 13:09:48 UTC
" Two" way mode ship...


Well for a two way mode ship one mode is nerfed across the board former shadow of it self and 2nd is immobile tanked sentry gun.in other word there is no 2 way mode ship

CCP consider not nerfing ship mobility / tank in non bastion mode.

Do not "encourage" me to fly it how you want let me play this game.

I believe those are simple changes that can be make without any fuss and cover more of pilot / game playstiles.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#1105 - 2013-08-31 13:12:00 UTC
I am a sadpuppy that 80% of this Thread is just ignorant or "to-stupid-to-read", please no changes CCP we dont want something New we just want just better and more expensive **** like in WoW, bigger is better, T3>T1 at any means give us MOAR!!!!!

Meet the Mario Kart 8 - Capsuleer Club Cup
Traedar
InterStellar Trading Syndicate
#1106 - 2013-08-31 13:16:48 UTC

Drones have been mentioned a few times and it could be a good addition to these ships that they have the 25-50 bandwidth of a non-drone-focused BS and then an increased drone bay of 100-125. The bandwidth puts a limiter on the drone DPS but the increased bay gives more survivability and ability to bring along more drones. I would consider giving at least 75 bay to a ship with 25 bandwidth and at least 125 bay to a ship with 50 bandwidth.
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#1107 - 2013-08-31 13:17:18 UTC
Lephia DeGrande wrote:
I am a sadpuppy that 80% of this Thread is just ignorant or "to-stupid-to-read", please no changes CCP we dont want something New we just want just better and more expensive **** like in WoW, bigger is better, T3>T1 at any means give us MOAR!!!!!


What can you expect from people Roll

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Kaeden Dourhand
Raven's Sway
#1108 - 2013-08-31 13:18:52 UTC
Lephia DeGrande wrote:
I am a sadpuppy that 80% of this Thread is just ignorant or "to-stupid-to-read", please no changes CCP we dont want something New we just want just better and more expensive **** like in WoW, bigger is better, T3>T1 at any means give us MOAR!!!!!



I like changes.

What I don't like or changes that completely miss their mark. None of this is going to make marauders used more in PVP, and in terms of PVE it's actually a downright nerf. Loss of drone DPS and loss of webs is less applied damage, more tank is all fine and dandy, but if you couldn't tank everything in your marauder already anyway you were doing it wrong. Even the MJD 'mobility' is debatable, I'd probably end up fitting my paladin with both MJD and MWD/AB in order to move about in the missions.
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#1109 - 2013-08-31 13:20:17 UTC
I was hillariously amazed when i saw that [WINTER] tag infront of the even more exciting Marauder topic.

And i shall not be let down, as you just introduced a Mini-Dreadnought.

But let's face it, don't stick with the Tractor-Beam rolebonus. It's plain terrible. If i would use those ships, it'd be for maximum killtime. I proclaim these things will probably outperform Pirate BS if used properly and the skillpoints backed up.

Let's see. Right now, i could fit up a Vargur looking like that:


[Vargur, Winter is coming]
Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Gyrostabilizer II

Federation Navy Tracking Computer, Optimal Range Script
Federation Navy Tracking Computer, Optimal Range Script
Large Micro Jump Drive
X-Large Shield Booster II
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script

800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Large Core Defense Operational Solidifier II
Large Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard II



With current stats, this thing would deal 764 Barrage DPS over a Range what is 8.4 + 102. It would tank 345 DPS peak, 100 dps stable. It's sensor resolution is 258,7mm.

With the Bastion Module in place, this thing would have a peak-tank of 1134 dps. (+15% with odd 1.1, +100% with Winter, +30% shield resistances while in bastion). And because it's winter, this tank is cold.
It will also get more falloff, like, 25%! not sure if this will be stacking penalized. If not, here comes a whopping +25km FallOff. If it is stacking penalized, alas, drop one tracking comp (save dem ISK!), fit another sensor booster.
Which leads to the next thing. The Vargur will get roughly 70% raw sensor strength. Which will translate into 441 Scan-Resolution. With a 3rd Sensor Booster you're looking at 592 Scan-Resolution.

How will this look live?

Warp into mission. Check location of accel-gate, check location of pirates. If suitable, immediately go Bastion, Blap the stuff you can for 60 seconds, drop out of bastion, align towards your bounce-spot for the gate (You know, like, go into an angle that will place you 100km off the accel-gate, roughly), hit MJD, boosh, 5 seconds later you're sitting 100km off all those little frigs which were just around you, lock them up with 441/592 scanres and blap-the-living-sht-out-of-them. Stay at this spot until pocket is clear, drop bastion, MJD towards Accel-Gate, activate, Rinse and Repeat. You won't even need your stupid drones, i mean, for what?

Also, keep in mind that this thing will do this to EVERYTHING. They will NOT get tracking-disrupted by Blood or Sansha Rats. They will not get Sensor-Damped by Serpentis Rats. They will not get ECM'd by Guristas Rats.
They will just be there. Blappin'.


What will i do?

Well, i will totally inject that damn Marauder-Skillbook on my alt now and prepare for Vargur-Madness.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#1110 - 2013-08-31 13:24:11 UTC
so when in bastion mode does it get bonuses from warfare links?

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Cade Windstalker
#1111 - 2013-08-31 13:28:30 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
so when in bastion mode does it get bonuses from warfare links?


Should, though most link bonuses are subject to normal stacking-penalty rules for their bonus type, so 2 Invuls and then a resist link doesn't get you much.
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#1112 - 2013-08-31 13:28:41 UTC
Oh yeah, keep in mind, the bastion module will give Shield-Boost-Bonus even to those Armor-Hulls. Hello there, Shield Kronos!
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#1113 - 2013-08-31 13:37:01 UTC
My first Charakter where Born 2003 with some Several new starts (accountwise) and one thing was the same until ... 2010 or so then something Strange happens people start complaining about everything, especially New stuff but the old Classic "Adapt or die" get more and more downhill.

I accept that 50 m3 Dronebay is to low, i also accept that they are kinda meh about PvP.

*rant on
But seriously get your lazy Ass Up and try to adapt, hell this is only a first preview and >most< comments are only

- More DPS
- More Speed
- More PvP
- More Large Fleet Fight Surviability
- More of the same

- Less PvE
- Less small Gangs
- Less Skills (lazy bastards, learn that Skill and shut up 120 days for a Ship but 20 Days for the main funtion is a no go?!)

- And NOTHING NEW, we dont like Adapt or die, anymore.

*rant OFF


CCP involves the Community and that is the thanks?

Meet the Mario Kart 8 - Capsuleer Club Cup
Marcus Walkuris
Aww yeahhh
#1114 - 2013-08-31 13:37:20 UTC
Awesome.
The last three months of training for my pirate faction battleship have been made obsolete!!
Guess I'll be letting my rattler go for a shiny Kronos.
Time to start all over in gunnery skills!!... sighh...
Danica Fox
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1115 - 2013-08-31 13:44:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Danica Fox
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
I was hillariously amazed when i saw that [WINTER] tag infront of the even more exciting Marauder topic.

And i shall not be let down, as you just introduced a Mini-Dreadnought.

But let's face it, don't stick with the Tractor-Beam rolebonus. It's plain terrible. If i would use those ships, it'd be for maximum killtime. I proclaim these things will probably outperform Pirate BS if used properly and the skillpoints backed up.

Let's see. Right now, i could fit up a Vargur looking like that:


[Vargur, Winter is coming]
Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Gyrostabilizer II

Federation Navy Tracking Computer, Optimal Range Script
Federation Navy Tracking Computer, Optimal Range Script
Large Micro Jump Drive
X-Large Shield Booster II
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script

800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Large Core Defense Operational Solidifier II
Large Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard II



With current stats, this thing would deal 764 Barrage DPS over a Range what is 8.4 + 102. It would tank 345 DPS peak, 100 dps stable. It's sensor resolution is 258,7mm.

With the Bastion Module in place, this thing would have a peak-tank of 1134 dps. (+15% with odd 1.1, +100% with Winter, +30% shield resistances while in bastion). And because it's winter, this tank is cold.
It will also get more falloff, like, 25%! not sure if this will be stacking penalized. If not, here comes a whopping +25km FallOff. If it is stacking penalized, alas, drop one tracking comp (save dem ISK!), fit another sensor booster.
Which leads to the next thing. The Vargur will get roughly 70% raw sensor strength. Which will translate into 441 Scan-Resolution. With a 3rd Sensor Booster you're looking at 592 Scan-Resolution.

How will this look live?

Warp into mission. Check location of accel-gate, check location of pirates. If suitable, immediately go Bastion, Blap the stuff you can for 60 seconds, drop out of bastion, align towards your bounce-spot for the gate (You know, like, go into an angle that will place you 100km off the accel-gate, roughly), hit MJD, boosh, 5 seconds later you're sitting 100km off all those little frigs which were just around you, lock them up with 441/592 scanres and blap-the-living-sht-out-of-them. Stay at this spot until pocket is clear, drop bastion, MJD towards Accel-Gate, activate, Rinse and Repeat. You won't even need your stupid drones, i mean, for what?

Also, keep in mind that this thing will do this to EVERYTHING. They will NOT get tracking-disrupted by Blood or Sansha Rats. They will not get Sensor-Damped by Serpentis Rats. They will not get ECM'd by Guristas Rats.
They will just be there. Blappin'.


What will i do?

Well, i will totally inject that damn Marauder-Skillbook on my alt now and prepare for Vargur-Madness.




yeah those 764 barrage dps would apply at 8,4km to explosive weaks and on mentiont 100km these are ~400 dps

evil... blap blap

with a domi with only 5 garde 2 (no ammo) u can reach out to 90 km with 3 dda with 755dps alle the range not loosing a single dps
hell just use bouncer @ 139 km with 611 dps just sentrys nothing else

a cnr does 1123 dps @ 251 km

hell even a rokh does 650 ish dps on 74+55 thats a t1 ship without bling and would put those blap to shame...

thats without bastion super bonus btw machariel @ current state 8,6+106 with barrage @ 863 dps using barrage and 4 fac gyros 2te 2 tc

price and skill time is like x5 for the marauders + support to get those number like a t1 and those t1s can get remote repped in fleets
and pve is like what u need 400 dps tank u can achieve with a single mod on bastioned marauders or with 3-4 mods on any other ship

buffer needs alot of modules and is not boosted by bastion (except the resists which dont help as u are dead in 1 min anyway)
Valenthe de Celine
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1116 - 2013-08-31 13:50:42 UTC
Lephia DeGrande wrote:
My first Charakter where Born 2003 with some Several new starts (accountwise) and one thing was the same until ... 2010 or so then something Strange happens people start complaining about everything, especially New stuff but the old Classic "Adapt or die" get more and more downhill.

I accept that 50 m3 Dronebay is to low, i also accept that they are kinda meh about PvP. [...]
- And NOTHING NEW, we dont like Adapt or die, anymore.

*rant OFF


CCP involves the Community and that is the thanks?

The adaptation is not that hard a concept to understand, but the ability to adapt based on the new concept could be a touch more polished. Hence why I am in favor of the changes as long as some anti-frig tactics can be agreed upon, regardless of the method. And this goes for both PvE and PvP scenarios, as both are often intertwined, highsec or no.

One warp scrambler and your billion ISK hull is worthless seems like a rather large flaw, and removing web bonuses, as well as drastically cutting drone bay sizes just feeds into that one serious vulnerability. If I can't use this for PvP, I would not care, as I am more of a PvE person at this time. I would not use a T2 hull for PvP in most cases, anyhow, as I prefer T1, as the loss vs. enjoyment is more cost effective. The mistake is thinking PvE doesn't often result in PvP scenarios. I mean, for mission hubs, all you have to do is combat probe all the Marauders and they are the new favorite victim of can flippers. Kinda kills that entire roll, being unable to move for 60 seconds at a time, as someone makes off with your mission objective item while you are stuck waiting to move again.
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#1117 - 2013-08-31 13:57:48 UTC
A Dominix is powerful, yes, but if flying against Guristas / Serpentis you end up severly crippled with your locking capabilities and your sentries start randomly firing onto the flock (focus fire doesn't really work).

A CNR will do this dps, but with cruises, which will apply damage pretty well onto battlecruisers and probably even cruisers, but turrets apply their damage pretty well onto anything with low transversal. Which all the ships will have, because they're flying towards you. It will also get issues when jamed or sensordamped.

A Rokh is pidgeonholed into Kin/Therm. Also, TD will screw it.

A Machariel is currently overpowered in regards of Falloff. Expect this to be changed. Also, TD will screw it.

Also, That Vargur can be run with 1400mm Guns with ease. Which will then result in Faction-Ammo DPS of 741, projected over 42+123.


Keep telling yourself that there are better alternatives. As it stands now, the Vargur will become one hell of a PvE-Ship. And i haven't rolled the numbers on Rail-Kronos and Paladin yet. And i can see a Golem being incredibly powerful, too. Cause it will probably be just like your CNR, but with E-War immunity.

Danica Fox
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1118 - 2013-08-31 14:00:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Danica Fox
Quote:
Lephia DeGrande wrote:
My first Charakter where Born 2003 with some Several new starts (accountwise) and one thing was the same until ... 2010 or so then something Strange happens people start complaining about everything, especially New stuff but the old Classic "Adapt or die" get more and more downhill.

I accept that 50 m3 Dronebay is to low, i also accept that they are kinda meh about PvP. [...]
- And NOTHING NEW, we dont like Adapt or die, anymore.

*rant OFF


CCP involves the Community and that is the thanks?


i´m normally not so much involved but think about u want to buy a new car (same car new model and u liked the old one alot)

which has less horsepower less speed less seats consumes more fuel then ur old and only 3 wheels but get a cool locking/sounding exhaust and that for exact the same price (and u have to go back to driving school for 1 month) and theres no option to keep ur old car what would u do

just buy another car or be angry but dont buy it again


and marauders where in no means op so that those nerfs are justified
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#1119 - 2013-08-31 14:01:40 UTC
I fully agree that this (awesome) Idea need a hell of polishing, but just made it simply Super Soloable with super Web and massive Drones are just no Solution for a MMO driven gameplay, Face it the days of Solo End Content PvE MUST END NOW!

Meet the Mario Kart 8 - Capsuleer Club Cup
Zor'katar
Matari Recreation
#1120 - 2013-08-31 14:05:37 UTC
At first I wasn't too bothered about the drone nerf on these, as I mostly just use salvage drones, and rarely I'll pull out light combat drones, so 50m3 is all I really need. But yeah, in the era of drones pulling more aggro in PvE, I think at least the bay being doubled so that losses can be replaced is pretty important.