Player Features and Ideas Discussion

This. A Vargur has - without extenders and stuff - only some 10k shields, and a single ASB use (like you could fitting a vargur with 1400s, 2 TCs, SeBo and Mjd) boost you ~4k each pulse. Imagining a scenario being shot by a dread, you could tank him probably, but odds are you're bleeding armor+structure like no tomorrow.

On the armorside, looks a lot more smooth. Given links, you can realise some 18k buffer with asingle plate - while the 4k rep output of your favored AAR or C-type repper (which I'd believe would be worth the investion) only pushes your armorbar for a quarter, making it easier on reactiontimes. Repoutput is on a slightly lower, much more capefficient level though. (targeting plate, LAR, DCU, EANM, explorig as tank, 3 lows/2 mids for damagemods)

I think the 30% resist bonus from the Bastion will give them a fairly notable buffer. I'm not sure how to work out the exact maths though, but based on the fact they don't have a stacking penalty with anything bar a DC2 for shield fits I'd expect to see over maybe 85-90% resists perhaps?

You *might* be able to get as high as 90% but it would be highly impractical. A Vargur with 2 CN Invul fields, T2 EM Rig, DC2, and Bastion gets average resists of ~83-84% with the lowest being just above 80 and the highest being Explosive at ~87.

You could probably bump this a bit with more resist specific modules but you'd be better off with shield extenders or boosters and Deadspace invulnerability fields would only boost that by another 1-3%. Officer would probably get you close to 90% across the board but at that point we're out of the realm of theory-crafting and into the realm of "I have more money than I know what to do with and I am bored".



I don't think the dread comparison even factors into things.

You could certainly alpha even a Tripple ASB Vargur off the field with enough Tornadoes (probably about 6-8 or the fit I saw) but the situation of contention is that a single ship can basically sit next to any other battleship in the game and soak DPS more or less until that ship runs out of ammo.

Obviously this doesn't apply to a drone-boat but I don't think "Deploy drones and go have lunch" should be listed as a counter to anything except boring level 4 missions :|

These are top of the line T2 Battleships, supposed to survive for long durations behind enemy lines yet apparently they are unable to replace a single flight of medium drones nor can they carry alternatives to them; These are ships supposed to have unsurpassed longevity.


To follow the design context of Marauders I need to urge you to scrap the idea of these minuscule drone bays; These ships should be able to carry multiple(4+) flights of drones.
Going down from the currently already very small drone bays to even smaller feels like a huge step in the wrong direction, even if the proposed bandwidth is set in stone please consider larger drone bays.


What I'm asking for is something similar to this:

PALADIN
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 55 / 220

GOLEM
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 45 / 180

KRONOS
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 75 / 300

VARGUR
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 65 / 260

These will be:

-broken for pve, especially plexing, and probably whing
-impossible for any small gang to break
-medium/large fleets will just scram and probably alpha through any self-given reps

These just don't seem like a good addition to the game.

PvE, its a gank fest, with a stationary marauder watching the Tornados come in. In PvP, it'll be hotdrop o'clock. That is, if it isn't just overwhelmed to begin with. For the price, I really don't see it justifying itself. It won't have the buffer to live on the PvP field while trying to act like a mini dread. All in all, not too useful.

Problem with a maruaders

1. Expensive just to get them at a reasonable missson equilavence with pirate bs, nor want to risk them in low or null
2. have little role in pvp with poor sensor strength, and thin tanks so can easily be alphaed off the field


So what has CCP done...."without" factoring bastion module at this point.

Negative
a. they have nerfed there overall dps by reducing drone bays, they already suffered against pirate bs
b. they havent changed any bonus for mission runners like tractor beam range or speed.....so best still to use a noctis trawling behind...some players are screaming for this to be even removed.
c. they reduced the ehp, reduced their cap, even reduced their agility

pluses
a.they gave was a new high utility
b.improved the fittings a big plus for vargur and artillery
c. and a MJD utility....which is debatable.....you jump 100 miles shoot stuff then you cant tractor the stuff you shot at range.

maybe i missed something here but they havent improved the ships in any meaningful way in their current role.

THE MJD isnt being used much so CCP thought hey give it a bonus and make this device useable and attractive....yeah bit plain. I have some BS I have tried MJD and I jump once....shoot stuff and being able to jump in 54 seconds...means nuthing to my BS. It suits some missions but again I point to ....well whats thepoint of my 48km tractor beam?

But ccp introduced these nerfs to counter what they wanted to broaden their appeal and make them grow into new role by this bastion module.

The Bastion module.

Its sounds cool, and it changes shape and it gives these massive tanking bonuses.....but YOUR static and you dont receive remote reps. So far I see no real reason to use it mission running in level 4s....already can tank ok in maruaders, will u se it in null or low sec? well maybe for level 5 missions or maybe DED complexes. Wormholes maybe.

So its looking very NICHE and not the broadening of its uses. It doesnt improve its pvp roles as players throwing around numbers at the moment its cost still really not much less than a dread. As for incursions.....not sure in bastion mode it would be able to tank beyond a vanguard site.....so it might be interesting having a all dps fleet now using local reps in bastion mode. but you wont probably be able to haul into a HQ or assault. and factor in the drone dps nerf as well.....again the ships feel less than a pirate bs.



....but please dont use a new skill and keep with it being a intro to dreads etc by using the current skill tree.


So lets all get past the oohhh and ahhh novelty issue here, I appreciate the thought CCP has given, but you have missed the mark.

Improve its current role dont nerf it to be less than a pirate BS in pve content.

Bastion- you have to either let it move,receive remote rep, but reduce the tanking ability and make it blap more

I must say, I think people seem to have the wrong idea about the mjd in missions. They seem to claim that you would mjd 100km away from the ships, blow them up at range, then not salvage because of the 48km tractor range. Isn't that completely backwards?

If the npcs are on top of you, great! kill, tractor, salvage. The problem used to be the ships that spawned at range; these would be killed at range, then not salvaged (or done later with noctis). However with the MJD I would use it offensively; if npcs spawn 100km away then use the MJD to jump to within optimal range of them, kill, loot, salvage, then jump back onto the acc gate.

As far as I can tell, the MJD drastically reduces the need for both long-range ammo and the noctis, and allows the marauders to use their high-damage ammo almost all of the time (particularly paladin conflag)

They are mini carrier. Bring neut.

Anyway, T2 battleship are meant for PVE.

My thoughts exactly. The depth of the drone bays is a huge factor in running anomalies in wormholes, and having your drones all killed means you no longer have enough means of dealing effectively with frigates. Less bandwidth cuts into DPS, but less bay just screams needing to dock and refill the drone bay every 5 minutes. That is the exact opposite of having the ability to endure long engagements, which was apparently something Marauders are supposed to do.

An additional benefit of a very deep drone bay (lets talk 300 m3 or more) is that there could be cause to store a flight or two of combat utility drones for situation use, as well as a flight of salvage drones (how about some T2 versions able to salvage a sleeper BS or T2 hull?), so that even more versatility and utility can be afforded pilots while on grid, and not require us to MJD to escape scrams, then warp out to refill the drone bay. Combat utility drones are not often used as there are few reasons to tie up precious bay space with them, so why not extend drone bays instead of limiting them to at least allow the possibility?

I was going to propose making smartbombs more usable for clearing off close flying frigs, like asking for a +100% area of effect bonus, but I figure this is way too powerful, but who knows? At least it would provide a foil to the loss of drones and webber bonuses, and it doesn't conflict with that whole "Bastion" idea, what with it having strong defenses and an ability to defend itself from enemies great and small...