Player Features and Ideas Discussion

How do you not know this module has existed for years and that like inferno prototypes have only just found a reason to exist?

Also scatter graphing is one of the most effective ways of plotting data over traditional line graphs or bar graphs.

CCP:

I think, based on all of the comments you see here.


You are trying to put two ships into one.

I believe that "Bastions" would be better fulfilled in a completely new "Command Battleship'. (Which would be awesome for Capital engagements and address some of the command ship issues that are being approached in Odyssey 1.1.


I think Mauraders, if they will stick to the "Harassment" meme, should rely on hit and run tactics, like the MJD buffs, and also support more frigate involvement like giving them a Micro-Jump Portal Generator, (where a cyno field would be painted onto a target and frigates would pop out within 10km or so), to project frigates into a battleship "blob" as fast as possible.

I /really/ think that with all of the comments already stated, you could consider an entirely new battleship, the Command Battleship...

This would make the "Bastion Mode", a "Command Mode", and we would have a different command strategy for capital fights. You can also work in this as a resolution to fleet/field command ship range issues.

Quoting for great Justice!

If the Kronus and Paladin are any indication the web bonus for the Vindicator won't be sticking around past or so either.

As for the Basion being supported by science... not much I can say to that. Eve doesn't run on real world physics. If I had to suggest something though I'd say it's using the engines and jump drive to power the system (hence the mass increase and inability to move).

I'm honestly not sure I like the whole concept either but I'm willing to give it a shot. It's just too off the wall to take in and process in one day. I'd at least toyed with the idea that they might get a MJD bonus but I was sort of arguing against "Mini-dreads" in another Marauder thread not 5 hours ago so this is a little bit of a hard reverse for me. It's definitely a better proposition than the mini-dreads thread was but if the best way to do most PvE or PvP content still ends up being to ignore the "Fortress Conversion Drive" or whatever then that's a problem.

I don't think that'll come out in a forum discussion though so I hope these get a very long run of iteration on the Test Server before any final decisions are made.




This isn't really a bad point all things considered, the problem is what bonus would you give it? Already has Range, Optimal, and self-repair. Doesn't need a second optimal and more tracking would be OP. I'm almost at the point of "give it a Target Painter bonus so it can blap Frigates at long range better" if you're going to replace the cap bonus.

As I understand it, a Titan bridge uses a set amount of fuel at first and a little extra cost per ship mass/radius (this is why jumping with an activated MWD is a no no) and the blops bridge uses similar mechanic but no activation cost.

Big changes.

At first glance, not keen.

The Bastion Module Approach.

With all the balancing changes I try to think about whether this would encourage the ships further use in PVP and encourage players to take the ship into more dangerous areas of the game such as Nullsec/Lowsec. I do not feel this is the case for this module.

Useless for any kind of fleet PVP. Zero speed and no RR makes them very vulnerable.

Small Gang PVP - Same problems. You would think they might crash gate camps and tank everything but they have no ability to hold anything down, and the drone reductions and web removal bonuses reduce damage application again ships within point range, especially scram range where the Marauder needs to dominate due to it’s reliance on micro jump drives.

Sniping - don’t need the tank and being immobile for a minute is inviting disaster, and why use a marauder to play out your scenario rather than a sentry Domi.

Anti capital - immobility means death.

So not good against larger ships and not good against smaller ships.

I just struggle to see how this will be used (especially in a harassing form), the only real gain seems to be in High end PVE content such as Wormholes where you would expect to webbed at range anyway or breezing through level 4’s, where the E-war immunity will make them ideal, possibly still not useful for level 5’s due to neuting except perhaps the shield Maruaders that can make use of Dual XL-ASB modules.

Bait ship? Massive tank and a cyno.

Also maybe good in POS or I hub bashes, just don’t get hot dropped, you are toast.

Feel this module should focus on tank and damage application not projection. They need to kill stuff and get out, also zero mobility is a mistake. Massive mobility reduction ok, maybe cannot activate propulsion modules of any kind.

Marauder changes themselves.

An extra high for the new module, ok but not really whats needed.

Marauders do not really have a damage projection problem.

Thinking about PVP again, look at the Kronos/Paladin. Four Mids means Microjump drive, Heavy Cap booster (necessary), then web and point, No conventional prop mod or drop the web and face being easily tackled unable to jump and unable the shake the attacker due to a small drone bay and poor close range damage application.

Trying to be constructive.

Shield Marauders may work better XL-ASB tanks will get round the remaining cap vulnerability combined with capless weapons this could make them very strong.

Just perhaps the Bastion module would work with the web strength bonus on the armour ships as at least you could hold ships down before disengaging after the cycle.

Maybe even remove the extra high and fittings and build in the microjump drive into the mids, a bit like capitals have jump drives or the Echelon ship had a fixed codebreaker.

It sounds like a nice gimmick but I really feel these are being taken in the wrong direction.

They needed electronic upgrades, fittings tweaks and something to differentiate them from pirate battleships, perhaps more strategic manoeuvrability in the form of a limited jump drive that does not require a cyno and locks onto gates instead and that's me going crazy out of the box.

P.S. Target Painter changes are good.

I'm sorry, but this about the dumbest idea I have ever heard. Adding a siege module light ensures that the ship will never be used outside of highsec. No Maurader pilot will risk their 700 mil isk hull being locked down for one minute in null sec. In fleet fights, the Bastion mode is even more useless, since they cannot receive remote reps. The MJD bonus is okay, but it doesn't resolve the main reason why Marauders aren't used in PvP; the fact that a frigate with 5 light ECM drones can keep a Marauder permanently jammed, due to it's horrid sensor strength. And since they can be so easily jammed, no one wants to risk a 700 mil ship that can be completely neutralized.

You want to fix them? Make their sensor strength the same or better than their T1 variants. You will then see them in more fleets.


As it is, this new bastion mode would make level 4 missions in high sec ridiculously easy.

I could see as result of this, the price of faction items tanking, because it will be so easy to get the required LP and tags for cheap.

To be fair it does state it makes them immune to e-war.

The definition of Marauder is "Someone who raids, pirates," etc..

Therefore, with the harassment theme, it is only reasonable to assert that the entire "Bastion" concept is totally out of place if CCP wants to keep this meme.


The MJD Bonuses work in perfectly.

However, I still contend that to DEFINE the current Marauders as "Harassment" ships, there MUST be some synergy between the Marauder and Frigates.

Frigates ARE THE GO TO HIT AND RUN SHIP.

Therefore Marauders should benefit them.

For example:

A Micro-Jump Portal Generator that can be fitted to a Maruader, who then targets a ship, activates ... And then each frigate right clicks the Marauder to jump would be a /perfect/ example of the kind of synergy I am talking about.

Another Example:

Racial Marauders could all have fleet bonuses specialized for Frigates with a specific sensor type, (Radar, Ladar, etc), so that pirate frigates get boosted as well.

Example the Third:

MWD Bonuses towards all frigates.

....

The possibilities are endless here...

Goal:

Make it possible for frigates to engage battleship and capital ship fleets at range, (200km +), and the value of frigates in incursions in large null sec fights will be /incredibly/ changed! Allow Marauders to be THE facilitators for applying frigates in battle at range!

FTFY.

I'm totally digging the lack of imagination in this thread, though.

We have mission runners that don't know how to use an MJD on existing ships, and therefore don't see the benefit in the Marauders' new bonus, and we have small gang PVPers that can't seem to figure out what to do with an ewar and snipe-proof sniping BS that has a built in, infinite set of on-grid tactical warps that don't even break your target lock.