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[Rubicon] Marauder rebalancing

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Blodhgarm Dethahal
8 Sins of Man
Stray Dogs.
#41 - 2013-08-29 20:11:31 UTC
Anyone else thinking double XLASB Vargur with this will be OP.. like.. Dreadnought sized tank.
Antoine Jordan
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2013-08-29 20:12:37 UTC

  • Extends all large turret falloff and tracking by 25%
  • Increases all large missile max velocity by 25%


This is weird. Falloff helps certain gun classes more than others. Missiles don't get a damage to application at all, just projection. If you have application/projection targets you're trying to hit, I think you'd be better off evening out the Bastion module effects in case of future use, and tweaking the specific Marauder stats to hit the goals.
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#43 - 2013-08-29 20:12:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
BASTION MODULE

Provides 30% shield, armor and hull resistances when activated, which function on the same way than Damage Control modules (not stacking penalized)


Do you mean that only one can be fitted per ship and I don't understand the (not stacking penalized) comment. Does this in fact mean that you could fit MOAR THAN ONE and activate two at the same time? *Cue wet pants*.

So in theory if more than 1 can be fitted and activated simultaneously:

2 x BM =

Provides 60% shield, armor and hull resistances
Increases shield and armor repair amount by 200%
Extends all large turret falloff and tracking by 50%
Increases all large missile max velocity by 50%

EDIT: Because I got to excited, sorry.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
Jayne Fillon
#44 - 2013-08-29 20:14:30 UTC
Looks absolutely great!

My only question is why no bonus to damage?

This seems like an obvious thing to add to a concept such as the "Bastion Module".

This doesn't make sense because when coupled with the MJD module, as a Golem will still not be able to hit out to 100km and beyond using torpedoes, while the Paladin will be able to hit out much farther than 100km with or without the Bastion module. So my question is, why is damage projection a priority over raw damage, when the Marauders have very different concepts of damage projection to begin with?

Can't shoot blues if you don't have any. Long Live NPSI.
CueCue QQ
Trypophobia Transit Nexus
#45 - 2013-08-29 20:15:24 UTC
Badly needs a DPS bonus to go with it. For having to be 100% committed to an action for that kind of time, it should AT LEAST be able to kick around 3k DPS, 4k would be better. This is, after all, a highsec/subcapital WH dread.
nonsciolist
Motiveless Malignity
Deepwater Hooligans
#46 - 2013-08-29 20:15:35 UTC  |  Edited by: nonsciolist
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
BASTION MODULE

Provides 30% shield, armor and hull resistances when activated, which function on the same way than Damage Control modules (not stacking penalized)


Do you mean that only one can be fitted per ship and I don't understand the (not stacking penalized) comment. Does this in fact mean that you could fit MOAR THAN ONE and activate two at the same time? *Cue wet pants*.


I guess it means that bonus doesn't have a stacking penalty when used with a damage control.

The OP even says:

CCP Ytterbium wrote:

[*] Only one may be fitted per Marauder, cannot be deactivated before cycle ends
marVLs
#47 - 2013-08-29 20:16:00 UTC  |  Edited by: marVLs
Awesome (i proposed long time ago transforming BS's by myself ;) but for T3 ships).

But i still don't like TP bonus on Golem... You removed EW bonus from other marauders but leave this...
I rather see 5% explosion radius reduction in it's place (with removing mid slot)


Second thing is Bastion module, looks very cool but...


  • Extends all large turret falloff and tracking by 25%
  • Increases all large missile max velocity by 25%


Why two bonuses for turrets and only one for missiles? It should be 25% for missile max velo and explosion radiusAttention (then i will live somehow without expl bonus on Golem...). I believe it's only mistake because as You say it should give marauders better damage aplication, but without explo radius bonus it wont give it to missiles...
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#48 - 2013-08-29 20:16:19 UTC
doesn't say if its a high slot module or not i assume so by the pg and the +1 high slot added to them all also i still think its weird they only use 4 turrets/launchers seems a little OP too me.

Also how much can a Vargur in bastion mode with ASB's rep .... 4 or 5 battleships????

Also kronos has a falloff and tracking bonus aswell as the vargur and golem has TP bonus still seems a bit OP too me

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#49 - 2013-08-29 20:17:23 UTC
a'akanelle wrote:
Very interesting...

On the specifics of the proposal... Can you start to spool your MJD in Bastion mode? Assuming EWar immunity includes Scrams what is to stop a small gang of these in low-sec? Just Bastion mode for 60 seconds, spool your MJD at 55 seconds, and you are gone before you can be tackled.

That said Marauders V finishes in 2 days, so I am looking very much looking forward to flying these.

If you can't, the fact that a tackle will very likely have you targeted already otherwise makes you too much of an easy target.

The animation will tip them off when to click the point.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#50 - 2013-08-29 20:17:47 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Ytterbium
Yes, this can be used in high-sec of course. You just get a weapon timer (requires security to be turned off though).

Do not underestimate the use of the bastion module, even for missions. The innate tank allows removal of tanking modules on fittings and the projection bonus helps a lot as well. I remember reaching 55-60km falloff on a Null Neutron Blaster Kronos on our internal test server Shocked

Only one bastion module may be fitted, but the resistance given don't stack, just like Damage Control. You can still fit one -with- a damage control though.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#51 - 2013-08-29 20:17:52 UTC
CueCue QQ wrote:
Badly needs a DPS bonus to go with it. For having to be 100% committed to an action for that kind of time, it should AT LEAST be able to kick around 3k DPS, 4k would be better. This is, after all, a highsec/subcapital WH dread.


that's just dumb ... don't caps do 2-3k dps??
these are clearly more about tank and range than raw dps

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
nahjustwarpin
SUPER DUPER SPACE TRUCKS
#52 - 2013-08-29 20:18:49 UTC
to everyone thinking that missiles should have another bonus like turrets have with falloff and tracking: falloff is only part of turrets range (in case of palading, it's really minimal), so to compensate for buffing only falloff (and not both optimal+falloff) turrets have second bonus.
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#53 - 2013-08-29 20:19:11 UTC
nonsciolist wrote:
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
BASTION MODULE

Provides 30% shield, armor and hull resistances when activated, which function on the same way than Damage Control modules (not stacking penalized)


Do you mean that only one can be fitted per ship and I don't understand the (not stacking penalized) comment. Does this in fact mean that you could fit MOAR THAN ONE and activate two at the same time? *Cue wet pants*.


I guess it means that bonus doesn't have a stacking penalty when used with a damage control.

The OP even says:

CCP Ytterbium wrote:

  • Only one may be fitted per Marauder, cannot be deactivated before cycle ends

    • Lovely, sorry, must've missed that with the excitement! Thanks.

    [b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
    Harvey James
    The Sengoku Legacy
    #54 - 2013-08-29 20:19:48 UTC
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:
    Yes, this can be used in high-sec of course. You just get a weapon timer (requires security to be turned off though).

    Do not underestimate the use of the bastion module, even for missions. The innate tank allows removal of tanking modules on fittings and the projection bonus helps a lot as well. I remember reaching 55-60km falloff on a Neutron Blaster Kronos on our internal test server Shocked

    Only one bastion module may be fitted, but the resistance given don't stack, just like Damage Control. You can still fit one -with- a damage control though.


    have you considered reducing the strength of the bonuses a little so many 10% bonuses 100% bonuses seems too much once stacked alongside this bastion module and in general?

    T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

    ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

    Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
    FT Diomedes
    The Graduates
    #55 - 2013-08-29 20:20:15 UTC
    As someone with Marauders V trained on three different accounts, I'm excited about changes to this ship class. What I am not excited about is a new skill. Why can't the new module use either Tactical Weapon Reconfiguration or Tactical Logistics Reconfiguration? This game doesn't need more skills. If necessary add a fuel bay and make the ship use Strontium or Heavy Water or something.

    CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

    Dinsdale Pirannha
    Pirannha Corp
    #56 - 2013-08-29 20:20:27 UTC
    Ristlin Wakefield wrote:
    Looks like a pretty useful ship for solo ships to clear out higher level DED sites and maybe incursion stuff.


    No, the Marauder is now finished in Incursions, because "However, like Dreadnoughts, they cannot be remote assisted or even move when that happens."

    So bottom line, the new module is completely useless in Incursions, and they lose their web bonus, and lose DPS because the drone bandwidth is one third of what it was.

    Yeah, but this is working as designed, because the null sec cartels hate incursions, and anything they can do to wreck income in them, they will.
    Harvey James
    The Sengoku Legacy
    #57 - 2013-08-29 20:22:07 UTC
    I imagine the AT will be very different next year the marauders will just tank a whole team on their own

    T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

    ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

    Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
    nahjustwarpin
    SUPER DUPER SPACE TRUCKS
    #58 - 2013-08-29 20:23:08 UTC
    FT Diomedes wrote:
    As someone with Marauders V trained on three different accounts, I'm excited about changes to this ship class. What I am not excited about is a new skill. Why can't the new module use either Tactical Weapon Reconfiguration or Tactical Logistics Reconfiguration? This game doesn't need more skills. If necessary add a fuel bay and make the ship use Strontium or Heavy Water or something.


    read first post
    Harvey James
    The Sengoku Legacy
    #59 - 2013-08-29 20:23:25 UTC
    so whats the time scale for their release?

    T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

    ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

    Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
    CCP Ytterbium
    C C P
    C C P Alliance
    #60 - 2013-08-29 20:23:32 UTC
    The new skill is needed because the Tactical Reconfiguration one gives a fuel reduction to Strontium Clathrates. I'm pretty sure you guys don't want to overflow your cargo with those P

    Also, remember the bastion cycle time is only 60 seconds when maxed. For Incursions, you can always pulse it on / off depending on circumstances.