Player Features and Ideas Discussion

So Moon Goo Isk Faucet is a thing of the past. The new "Thing" is, as you may have noticed, Renting space to care bears. This brings up a few issues.

-First of all, the changes to moon harvesting is what caused the war for Fountain. Now that the war is over and people are finally realizing that the R64's really arn't as great as they thought what will be the new conflict driver? I really fail to see another major war like that happening for resources in the near or distant future without another giant change like the Moon Goo revamp.

-So the new source of income in the galaxy is renting space. Do you think this will this be a new conflict driver? Do you think there will be sov level conflict or will it all just be small gang income disruption conflict?

-That brings up another point. Currently the state of null sec is very resistant to this style of income. There is no way for entities to protect their workers outside of protecting their sov structures. Even with 24/7 diligence patrolling systems and choke points etc there are still Wormholes that will bypass that all. And once you get a Cloaked ship in your system, there's no way to get rid of it without the pilot taking action. And in fact if they wanted to they could just covert cyno in another cyno ship at a safe spot to do all the dirty work and then resume cloaking forever and never be in any danger.

I do realize that the Cloak vs Local debate is very intricate and requires a lot of simultaneous changes to get right but i know you guys can do it. It's just a matter of getting to it. This is obviously a huge deal for lots of people as you'll see them come to the forums to rant constantly. No other issue is brought up so often so steadily or so "passionately.' It does need to be addressed in some way soon. There's been a lot of ideas (not just the same idea) on how to handle it. Hopefully you guys can decided on the right one.

-Another issue is this. What's to stop the Blue Donut from spreading around Tranquility just as it has spread around Serenity? Serenity has 3 blocks of very similar power all at odds with each other. Or so they want you to believe. They stage fights to keep their members happy but basically all they do is a type of rental program for all of their members to fund themselves in RMT. Though the RMT thing may or may not apply the idea still stands, what's to stop Blocks from just parking in their spot and blue up everyone else in null sec? You can't fight a physical war for renters, you can just give them a better deal or take the space where they live.

-An extended point to the previous issue is the opposite but same. What's to stop one bloc that becomes super powerful from taking over all of sov space and thus imposing another type of blue donut? The more space you have, the more space you can rent and with that the more income you have. With unlimited income it wouldn't be impossible for some entity to be able to do this if they so wanted. It would technically only take 1 person to keep track of the renters and collect all of the rent.

So the big question here: Is CCP aware of the possible situations that Sov Null could possibly end up in?

If not, then maybe there should be a new position to fill at CCP.
If yes, then what do you guys think about the situation and do you have any insight into the future plans that you'd be willing to share?

This would be a great item not to have to wait and fix down the road.

Thanks!

Of the things you said, there's only one that i can recomment on. Regardless of the history of eve, sov, renting etc , this is something new. With the Goons doing a 180 on their ideology on rental it's pretty apparent. Renting space is the only effective means of income on an Alliance/Coalition level.

Prior to now, it was the only viable means of income in very specific locations. Now it is the only viable means anywhere. This will cause changes in lots of places. First of all, defending moons is going to be less emphasized. Though that could be supplemented with additional CSAAs put up by the rental corps/alliances to a certain extent.

That's another point, how many of these new rental corps/alliances will be building supers/titans? Is that something we want more of in the game? Is it something to be concerned with? I guess that really depends on the capital/supercap rebalances we'll get eventually.

I just wanted to reemphasize that this really is a new period in EVE history. I wonder if this was foreseen from the onset of moon goo changes.

You don't need retrospect to understand that this is a new period. The technetium isk faucet has been turned off. That in and of itself is the beginning of a new period. What becomes of it has yet to be seen.

Now just because we don't know the future doesn't mean we can't have some idea of what will happen. Though there may be some possibilities that nobody could predict the likely hood of that is much less than the things I have already brought up. The place we are in right now is in the middle of a shift. This isn't the pre-moon rebalance period where most if not all of the possibilities are impossible to foresee. We are caught in a flow, a river even, and you can see most if not all of the possibilities awaiting us down stream.


What i foresee is this. Goons will not be able to start up a rental program successfully. Sure there will be some people/a corp or 2 that are either not too familiar with them or have not yet been scammed by them. Which will then likely be harassed constantly by none other than the Goon's alts. And that will be the extent of their rental program. However, other CFC entities will be able to pick up renters in some shape or form. And the goons will devise some way to skim off the top of that to pay their own bills while continuing to harass their own renters with alts.

However there are other possibilities including the rental program being successful or it being very not successful causing the fail cascade of goons. Less likely but still possible and there may be other even less imaginable possibilities like the goons not harassing their own renters and other things i can't even fathom, but there again they're so much less likely they're not even on the radar.

The point is this, we can see the possibilities that are most likely. We can even see the possibilities that are less likely. We can even see some that are not likely at all. But we can foresee that because of our past experience, the present transitions and how well we understand the current situations and their implications.

This always happens in this game. The little things turn into big things. And the big things always fizzle out into "Meh".

Little thing turned into big thing: Contact + standings system. Such a little feature intended to help you know who are your friends and enemies turns eve into Coalition Online. If they removed this feature think about how big of an impact this would have. They could of changed it long ago before the Coalitions set in and not have made too much of a difference. But then again i guess having 5000 people fighting is good for advertisement. Now thats an unintended yet smashing success for such a little feature.

Big things that fizzled: Bounty system, Scanning system, Data Site mini-game, Dust 514, Captain's Quarters+WiS, etc etc etc.

With the big things that fizzle they didn't really receive any support. They really need the little things to make them work because it's the little things that will make or break something. ex: titans: titans are the big thing, tracking, aoe DD, and subcap DD are the little things (but sure they feel like big things).

Odyssey was supposed to be all about scanning and exploration. However the only thing to really impact the game at all was the Moon goo rebalance which really has nothing to do with "exploration" except for the fact that you gotta use probes to scan the moons composition.

For once I'd like to see CCP take a preemptive stance on dealing with an issue. Not the "we'll fix it later" or "it's good enough" and never get to it stance.

FFS

Don't forget that drama recursively generates more drama

Like I said, internal drama.

If I went into every theft, minor and major, that resulted out of just the above list I'd use up the character count in a single post twice over. If I expanded the list I'd probably set a new record for longest series of posts shortly before the ISD banned me for a week for spam

By all means, shoot me a link. I'm always interested in bit of Eve history and try to collect them whenever I can.

Also I find it somewhat amusing that you seem to have showed up in several threads I'm posting in

the removal of isk faucents is never a bad thing. moon mining was way too much passive isk anyways. I dont think TQ will ever be as boring and "blue donut" as serenity because our server is a lot more diverse than Serenity's is.

Theres a million differences between people on our server and I dont foresee TQ ever getting along as theirs does. Eve is about conflict, and there will always be people who want to go out roaming, conflict for conflicts sake is plenty a driver.

if you want renting gone, what mechanic do you propose for alliance level income?


Also, who do BCA rent from these days, and could I interest you in some prime space in the vale of the silent?

"To support Alliance RMT, alliances do X... Alliance RMT may not actually exist, but Alliances still do X because of it..."
-Glorious OP