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Solving the Super blob problem without nerfing them
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Unforgiven Storm
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#1 - 2011-09-08 21:56:36 UTC
The only way to deal with supers is to find a way to kill them all. Nerfing accomplishes nothing and only gets people mad.

We have already have a ship that can accomplish that task, it just needs some love: THE DREAD
Boost dreads, transform them from a POS killing machine to capital killing machine:

  1. drop the siege time to 5 minutes
  2. instead of having a scan penalty, in siege, dreads should have scan bonus of 3 or 4 times
  3. allow then to receive remote reps
  4. give them a bonus, in siege, to the shield and armor resistances
  5. give then 2 more multiple purpose high slots and more cpu so they can be used
  6. double the cap recharge rate
  7. entering siege should not make the dreads loose their locks
  8. create a capital module for warp disruption that can only be field by capitals and allow the disruption of supers

The main idea is for the dread to be a paper ship with no dps until it enters in siege -> them it becomes a brick killing machine, very hard to kill and with a FU DPS!

1 - I don't need t explain why is important the siege time to be cut to half, do I?

2 - Taking forever to lock a capital does not make the dread a killing machine, normally we go in siege and it takes 15 seconds of wasted time to start shooting something, that is a waste of time and stront

3 - without remote reps, even with a 5 minute stront time, the dreads are dead in any engagement. I've seem 20 supers engage 15 dreads and all dreads died in 15 seconds intervals, they drop like flies one at the time. with rep support from carriers, the final result could be their destruction but they would take 5-6 supers with them. This buff will change the way combats unfold and supers will start to die.

4 - a dread should be brick while in siege! of course a dread will die to 20 supers or even 1 super but at least if should be able to tank them like a capital ship should tank, if for 20 supers hitting a dread it took them at least 1 minutes to kill a dread that is in siege, that will be acceptable.

5 - supers use these blobs of drones, fighters and bombers, a dread has no defense against that, with these 2 extra high slots, a dread can fit 2 smart bombs and at least have some form of defense against drone blobs

6 - Cap recharge is bad, I jump a dread, warp to pos, go in siege 10 minutes, kill the pos, them warp to safe pos, wait 10 more minutes before I have cap again to jump out! not acceptable, the cap should be full by the time the siege is over! 10 minutes its an acceptable time to rechange 80% of the cap not 20-25! also without cap you cannot engage suppers properly

7 - self explanatory and with change 2 it doesn't make sense anymore

8 - if a dread can´t tacke supers it cannot kill them. period, because once engaged a super just fly away and none will die

Unforgiven Storm for CSM 9, 10, 11, 12 and 13. (If I don't get in in the next 5 years I will quit trying) :-)
Sigras
Conglomo
#2 - 2011-09-08 22:20:36 UTC
the danger you get into here is power creep, if instead of nerfing things that need it, you just buff things appropriately, you're eventually going to end up buffing everything.

IMHO, the only change that dreads need, is:

1. a reduction in their siege cycle, (#1),
2. receiving RR in siege (#3)
3. a buff to their resistance in siege with the proviso that they lose their rep bonuses.

that and I think supercarriers need to lose their ability to field normal drones and the fighter bomber volley damage needs to be halved, and their ROF needs to be doubled.

This gives two viable counters to the supercarrier, carriers and dreadnoughts which would be able to mitigate the damage, and cruisers and battleships which would be able to kill the fighters and not worry about the drones.
LIL TANYA Adoulin
Doomheim
#3 - 2011-09-09 02:07:02 UTC
What the person above me said ^^
Covert Kitty
SRS Industries
#4 - 2011-09-09 03:45:46 UTC
The OP goes a bit far, I basically agree with the two posts directly above me.

It should be pointed out that cutting the cycle time to 5 min's will make killing a carrier supported dread with pos gunners basically impossible. I'm not necessarily saying that's a bad thing perse, however it is worth noting that it will be a nerf to pos gunning.
Sigras
Conglomo
#5 - 2011-09-09 04:38:52 UTC
hmmm . . . never thought about the effects on POS gunning . . . any thoughts on how to fix that? perhaps a buff to large POS guns which are basically useless for anything else other than shooting the caps anyway?
Xavier Quo
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2011-09-09 12:06:10 UTC
had the idea of dreadnought range stacking with how many are in siege, either with a linking module or integrated into ship bonuses. Combine that with some of the buffs you mentioned and it immediately breaks up the blob and makes the battlefield a bit more interesting - lose just one dread and your extreme range drops, necessitating redeployment, a secondary sub cap fleet would have be assigned to protect them, fast bomber fleets from the enemy tasked with overcoming the protector fleet etc, all whilst the main frontline battle is going on.
Overs
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#7 - 2011-09-09 12:45:20 UTC
If I've done my math right, 20 fighter bombers from a super carrier do about 5 times the amount of damage of a Dread in Siege. So 20 Super Carriers have the dps of 100 Dreads. The simple fix is to cut fighter bomber dps in half.
Sigras
Conglomo
#8 - 2011-09-09 23:07:03 UTC
so nobody ever uses supercarriers?
LIL TANYA Adoulin
Doomheim
#9 - 2011-09-09 23:26:24 UTC
Overs wrote:
If I've done my math right, 20 fighter bombers from a super carrier do about 5 times the amount of damage of a Dread in Siege. So 20 Super Carriers have the dps of 100 Dreads. The simple fix is to cut fighter bomber dps in half.


The last time I checked, 20FBs launched from a nyx with max skills deal about 10k dps, so theoretically, a supercarrier is the best counter to a titan which can deal even more if you add dmg mods.

Dreads deal around 6000 to 7600dps in siege with maxed skills and a standard fit so your theory is wrong.