Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Well, I think that was partially addressed by being held on grid with combat timers clicking away. I know in the past, creative carrier pilots disco'd to warp off grid. I don't think that works anymore.

Either logging in or logging off to avoid or capitalize on PVP are both creative uses of game mechanics

I have never been killed by this type of trap.

However, given the info here, I can spend all the time I want checking local, in-game intel as well as out of game intel (DotLan) to find a 'safe' route through bad space and still get killed by a group of non-titan equipped enemies.

I think that is very much against the spirit of EvE. Yes there is danger, and yes there is sometimes little you can do about it. By allowing pilots to remove themselves from local at will it makes for an unbalanced situation in favor of the attacker.

After reading the entire thread, the best option I have seen is to have the eWarp drop you anywhere from 10-20KM ( not less that 10km ) away from your exit point. At least this give the target a chance for lady luck to step in and add the precious seconds needed to warp off.

To me this is exactly what clocking should be, same as a log-off but a pretty screensaver and chat.

Was thinking the same thing here. Seems like the root problem is local. Guy logs in a scout, sees local full of "bad guys" logs of and doesn't log in his main in the juicey target.

People get tired of this and figure, fine we'll log too except for the scout in a hictor in an NPC corp. Then when he is caught we'll log in and kill him.

Having to leave system and come back through a mass-limited hole before you can shoot anything sounds like a great improvement for wormhole pvp. Docking is, obviously, not an option.


Having a no-pvp timer on login just slows the action down and puts the defenders on an even bigger disadvantage than they were with just the logon trap because the attackers know in advance. The defenders cant respond to the attack until it happens, so the'll still have "No-PvP timers" while the attackers get to shoot at them.

Here's how It'd play out:
- attackers come in, warp to safe spots, "lose internet connection" (because logging out in space is an exploit)
- attackers organize a time to all log in together. Their "no-pvp" timers start ticking.
- attackers start putting up a tower.
- If the defenders see this right away, they batphone/jabber and start logging in their stuff. Best case they're 1-2 minutes behind the attackers, worst case, 10+ minutes.
- Attackers get to pew at stuff for many minutes with no danger because defenders can only return fire, not initiate attacks.
- Defenders cant do squat about the tower, cause they can't shoot yet.

How bout a scenario even less in the defender's favor:
- Attackers find an entrance
- defenders see this, call people on jabber/cellphones etc. defense fleet starts logging on (remember, they're sleeping)
- attackers bring in 20 T3s, an orca, and a dread. wormhole closes.
- attackers gets to set up tower under no threat because defenders can't shoot yet.

No log-on trap here, but the anti-logon trap totally ruined it for the defenders, why even bother?


I have yet to be convinced that logging on in space is as serious a problem as some people seem to think. And even if it is, any solution I've read or I can come up with beyond "Your internet must be perfect and you're never allowed to log out" is an order of magnitude worse for the game than being able to log on and shoot things.


Remember, the log-off change was made because prior to that it was nearly impossible to kill super capitals. All they needed to do was close their client (or unplug their internet) and their ship would disappear before it exploded.

edit: Also, logging out to AVOID pvp is still completely possible. You just cant log out DURING pvp and expect to keep your stuff. If you have no aggression timers you dissapear in 30 seconds. With the safe logout feature you get to watch your ship/dscan for that entire time. If you have an aggression timer you're not AVOIDING pvp, your trying to use meta-game to ESCAPE pvp.

Yo ragetard, might want to read your own OP since I don't see wormhole anywhere in there. And sorry, I pretty much ignore wormhole stuff so I don't know wormhole corps by name....oh and might I suggest decaf coffee?

HAHA!

Well, That will just about cover the fly-by's.

While it is good to tell people to stop with crying, or to make them cry if they have not done so yet, does OP seem to be long past the point and deserves a bit of respect.

I think one solution might be making any piloted ships logged off in space "detectable"

You wouldnt be able to find those ships or pinpoint them, but CCP could allow you to take a headcount of the ships logged out.

IE there is 10 ships logged out (piloted) in this system. Add it to the scanner system.

Allowing people to know WHAT ships are logged out (IE, 5 battleships, 3 carriers, 1 super) might be a bit too much information.

Frankly I am not sure what fix is best, but certainty the current mechanic is not what was intended.

I think a improtant factor in the issue many of you are overlooking is the risk VS reward.

A fleet logged off in a system is completely invulnerable, they cans it there with a claoked eye and wait to jump and gank a target with absolutely no chance of any real PVP unless they screw up. Any good attacker has intel on when they want to perform their gank, and since the flag changes they wait until their target is completely vulnerable. They log on, warp to X, kill everything, warp out, cloak up, then log. This isnt an issue of gate camps, or hot drops, its a method of completely safely ganking pve fleets and then running for the hills rather than actual PVP.

There is no PVP generated in this case, only a gank on some targets that had little to no chance of retaliating. The only possibly viable tactic to fight back is your own log on trap, which is about as dumb as saying the best way to counter titans is more titans.

I dont think that any of the suggested "NO PVP" timers are the right way to go so I can't say I have the solution but I do agree it is a problem. I think allowing you some form of rudimentary intel as to what is/how much is logged off in a system is much closer to the way to go, but not perfect either. In regards to system sieges it is very rare when the defender doesnt already know someone is seeding capitals in their system, it isnt usually a surprise as much as a " you know its coming just not when" situation, So i dont think this additional intel will have a significant impact on this.

If you want to gank someone, at least having to be logged in prior to the gank allows the people to see you and maybe be ready/able to fight back. Even if your fleets at a deep safe combat scanners are likely to pick it out and so your not completely surprised when a blob lands on your pve fleet.

If I want to hide a large capital fleet, force them to pay for their covertness, having to fit a cloak into their entire fleet is the price one should have to pay if i want my fleet to be cloaked, logging off makes it too simple

Might I suggest some haldol?

Seriously though, the person appears to be on your side regarding log on traps.

Comparing valid in game mechanics (bridging) vs. log on traps (and yes logging off to avoid PVP) is not a valid comparison. CCP pruposefully created the bridging modules/ships/mechanic for the express purpose of moving systems without moving gates and introducing uncertainty to the game.

Log on/off stuff is admittedly dubious, it is like trying to get a hot drop on the sly. Right now, given how local works in null sec, I know you freaked out about this happening in WH space, it does render null very, very safe. So, if you wanted to prohibit this kind of thing in WH's right now, I'd be fine with it (yeah, I know I'm not a WH dweller so my view may not carry much weight) but given how easy it is to reduce risk and uncertainty in the game in null at the moment, I'd prefer to leave the log on option even thought I don't find it very appealing.