These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Odyssey 1.1] Dominix bonus change

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#121 - 2013-08-08 18:22:15 UTC
Psycros wrote:
The fix to 90% of drone issues is simple, obvious and probably pure demonic heresy to some: allow drones to slowly repair their armor while in the bay. You can still lose them if you're not playing with both halves of your brain but this would allow for a lot of flexibility in balancing them. I wouldn't even be opposed to requiring a drone repair module to enable this ability, although if I'm losing a slot I'd want fairly decent repair speed, and I'd hope it would rep their hull as well.


So long as the repair duration is quite lengthy do I agree with you.
Deacon Abox
Black Eagle5
#122 - 2013-08-08 18:23:20 UTC
True, there are so many problems with drones. Let's not fix any of them. Instead let's quickly respond to a vocal minority upset by one friggin alliance tournament, by nerfing them or the ships that use them.What?

Oh let's also further, but stealthily, nerf Command ships under the guise of a buff to them and nerf to Tech IIIs. Meanwhile not addressing the stupidity of off-grid ss'd tech IIIs . . .

Please balancing team don't continue down this road. I know I just posted kthxbye, but I'll always be back with a criticism. Sorry.Smile

CCP, there are off buttons for ship explosions, missile effects, turret effects, etc. "Immersion" does not seem to be harmed by those. So, [u]please[/u] give us a persisting off button for the jump gate and autoscan visuals.

Tobias Hareka
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#123 - 2013-08-08 18:31:54 UTC
Well, something is clearly OP when people want to keep it unchanged.
Gorgoth24
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#124 - 2013-08-08 18:54:47 UTC
It's a relatively minor change and I see where it's coming from. But it's not exactly tin-foil-hattery to think ATXI was a contributing factor.

However, drone assist mechanics are far more of the problem then the tracking bonus itself. I realize this is all tangled up in old code, but it is the primary issue here imo
uyguhb
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#125 - 2013-08-08 19:07:30 UTC
Removing the dominix of the 1 thing making it unique. but lets put off working on drones until 2015 Roll
Deacon Abox
Black Eagle5
#126 - 2013-08-08 19:19:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Deacon Abox
Gorgoth24 wrote:
It's a relatively minor change and I see where it's coming from. But it's not exactly tin-foil-hattery to think ATXI was a contributing factor.

However, drone assist mechanics are far more of the problem then the tracking bonus itself. I realize this is all tangled up in old code, but it is the primary issue here imo

Yes, clearly the biggest thing with drones that needs to be addressed is doing away with the ability to assign them. We don't want any more logi pilots getting on killmails.

However, don't stop there, they're too inexpensive. Especially the tech II and faction drones. Likewise no one worries about isk loss with drones because people can fit so many of them in their drones bays that they never run out. And the damn things have so many hitpoints they take forever to kill. Damn it's easier to target another ship's weapons and disable them than it is to kill a drone.

Additionally I've never seen a battlefield littered with drones. Drones not only left by ships that got blowed up, but also by nobody having to warp out to avoid getting blowed up. Noone is going to lose which are their sentrys if they are able to warp back to a battlefield. Because as we know your own drones will have a marker on them and those sentrys move damn quick to get back in your bay. Conversely, I see people dropping their expensive tech II and faction guns and launchers throughout a battlefield all the time.

And just like any other weapon they can be overheated. And travel time is so much better than even missiles. Those damn drones zip around faster than a rocket. Even the heavy drones. Smarties are so much better for killing missiles than drones. This is not fair.

So yes, first priority should be to nerf the ability to assign drones.

CCP, there are off buttons for ship explosions, missile effects, turret effects, etc. "Immersion" does not seem to be harmed by those. So, [u]please[/u] give us a persisting off button for the jump gate and autoscan visuals.

mama guru
Yazatas.
#127 - 2013-08-08 19:23:19 UTC
Deacon Abox wrote:
True, there are so many problems with drones. Let's not fix any of them. Instead let's quickly respond to a vocal minority upset by one friggin alliance tournament, by nerfing them or the ships that use them.What?Smile


7.5 % is fair, I honestly thought that 10% was out of control given the damage of sentries compared to turrets in the 50-100km range.

Still, the drone assist mechanic needs to stay unless you want to give me a 1000m3 dronebay and orbiting sentries. Having a maximum of 15 drones, which equates to 3 bombs or panic/bumped warpouts of ammunition is way to big a drawback to remove the assist mechanic.

EVE online is the fishermans friend of MMO's. If it's too hard you are too weak.
Ju0ZaS
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#128 - 2013-08-08 20:04:06 UTC
Seems fair. 10% per level on any bonus seems kind of too strong anyways. Well, perhaps not including the 10% bonuses on some of the creappy frigs.

Are you going to fight me or do you expect to bore me to death with your forum pvp?
Lic Tarek
Ghosts of New Eden
#129 - 2013-08-08 20:36:45 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
We are going to put a small change in for 1.1:

Dominix's drone tracking and optimal range bonus lowered from 10% per level to 7.5% per level.

This brings the bonus in line with all other damage application bonuses we give, such as turret tracking bonuses or missile explosion velocity/radius bonuses. The Dominix hasn't been oppressively powerful but it is extremely strong and there is no need for the over-allocation with regards to this bonus.

In case some of you think this is a reaction to the way the Domi performed in the alliance tournament, I can tell you that we will never make balance decisions based on that environment. The tournament certainly highlighted the strengths of sentry drones and damps, which are both powerful on TQ as well, but it removed many of their drawbacks and so it is not an effective way to assess balance or power in normal EVE.


I call shenanigans!!! The re-balance of tracking and optimal range bonuses are what make the Dominix a much more viable ship for all activities. The tank has always been solid on this ship but the DPS was always abysmal. When CCP rebalanced this ship it may have stepped on the toes of the god-awful looking Gila and the noble Ishtar. But lets be honest those ships are meant to be mobile and deadly. A battleship isnt necessarily highly mobile vs the rest of the fleet of eve online. This is why battleships are supposed to have strong tanks and moderate to good DPS. Take the rest of the "tiericided" Tier 1 battleships and try to make a case that the Domi pre-Odyssey could truely come close to matching those ships in DPS. You cant unless you faction fitted the ship. And lets be honest, before Odyssey, how many faction fit Domi's did you find on killboards? I like the Dominix the way it is. It is now TRUELY a drone boat with teeth. Nerf it and its not worth the 150 million isk it now runs for in Jita.

CCP, Please do not do this.

-Lic Tarek


P.S. For those of you that don't know what "Shenanigans" means:

shenanigans plural of she·nan·i·gans (Noun)

1. Secret or dishonest activity or maneuvering.
2. Silly or high-spirited behavior; mischief.
Maggeridon Thoraz
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#130 - 2013-08-08 20:47:49 UTC
with all this changes coming for 1.1 . when do we get td effecting missiles as promised for 1.0 odyssey. once 1.0 odyssey hit the streets you , ccp , told us its delayed to get used to the missiles nerfs that came with it ? . I think with with 1.1 coming enogh time passed already.
Baren
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#131 - 2013-08-08 20:56:22 UTC
dislike, the drone mechanics are the problem, not the drones or bonuses them selves
Gwen Ambraelle
Last Train From Cadspugh
#132 - 2013-08-08 21:28:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Gwen Ambraelle
Just when you get the Domi working right, you make it sub par again....

Sentry Drones have enough disadvantages as it is, the 10% bonus was the only thing that made them worthwhile.

Sentries can be shot, turrets cannot.
Sentries can't move, turrets can.
Sentries can't be overheated, turrets can.
Drone interface is awful.

IF you have a better drone interface AND make sentries follow the ship AND double their hitpoints MAYBE, just MAYBE we can talk about the range/tracking bonus, but until then, leave the bl**dy thing alone.

-1 for CCP Rise (whos other work I've largely been supportive of), this is just a knee jerk reaction to ppl screaming after the Alliance Tournament.
Freighdee Katt
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#133 - 2013-08-08 21:33:03 UTC
Tobias Hareka wrote:
Well, something is clearly OP when people want to keep it unchanged.

If CCP announced tomorrow that they were nerfing all autocannon damage by 90%, the forums would collapse into some kind of black hole under the weight of all the hateposting. Clearly that means it's a change that needs to happen.

EvE is supposed to suck.  Wait . . . what was the question?
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Horse Feathers
CAStabouts
#134 - 2013-08-08 21:33:23 UTC
EvilweaselSA wrote:

Could you add gun assist and missile assist in the meantime so other fleet comps can be equally free of individual effort in any way


You can't shoot the guns off of a ship, or a whole fleet in the case of a few bombs, so there are pros and cons here. And it's not like being an F1-monkey is terribly complicated...

thhief ghabmoef
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#135 - 2013-08-08 21:34:01 UTC
Lic Tarek wrote:
The tank has always been solid on this ship but the DPS was always abysmal


If by "abysmal" you mean the highest dps of any T1 subcap, then yes.

.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#136 - 2013-08-08 21:51:40 UTC
Roime wrote:
Lic Tarek wrote:
The tank has always been solid on this ship but the DPS was always abysmal


If by "abysmal" you mean the highest dps of any T1 subcap, then yes.

I have to agree "Abysmal"=1500 DPS with its current iteration in a lolgank shield tanked fit.

The navy version will get up to 1700 DPs and have better tank.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#137 - 2013-08-08 22:04:05 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Quote:
(Remember how in the T1 BS changes thread people said that no-one would ever fly a Dominix over a Geddon?)


Glad someone else remembers this =)


(From the bs balancing thread)
Michael Harari wrote:

If anything, the domi is too strong, tracking and range bonused sentries will make mincemeat out of all sorts of things.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#138 - 2013-08-08 22:11:33 UTC
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
mynnna wrote:
Anharat wrote:
>has nothing to do with the tournament
>publishes the change right after the tournament
seems legit


If I could place a bounty on you for this awful post, I would.

Gotta admit it is a little suspect, not as if people didn't question the wisdom of the 10% bonus prior to implementation. He is however probably telling the truth when he says the tourny was not the deciding factor, but there is no way it was not a contributing factor. Main thing is likely the FC assigned sentries from blobs in null that I hear is all the rage and has spawned Goddess knows how many threads to date.


I'm just remembering the damp nerf that was announced right after the alliance tournament. What was it, 10 damp Caracals rocked a more traditional team in the final round and the dev in question was pissed. Not long afterwards Damps were nerfed into ******* oblivion.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#139 - 2013-08-08 22:22:19 UTC
I could be wrong but I believe in the BS thread it was proposed to give the Dominix 10% to drone damage, HP, and optimal and then as its second bonus +5% drone tracking and microwarp velocity

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Voith
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#140 - 2013-08-08 22:57:52 UTC
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
mynnna wrote:
Anharat wrote:
>has nothing to do with the tournament
>publishes the change right after the tournament
seems legit


If I could place a bounty on you for this awful post, I would.

Gotta admit it is a little suspect, not as if people didn't question the wisdom of the 10% bonus prior to implementation. He is however probably telling the truth when he says the tourny was not the deciding factor, but there is no way it was not a contributing factor. Main thing is likely the FC assigned sentries from blobs in null that I hear is all the rage and has spawned Goddess knows how many threads to date.

The Ishtar was showing a 7.5% bonus before the Tournament.