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[Odyssey 1.1] Warfare Links, Mindlinks, Gang bonuses

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Author
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#621 - 2013-08-08 01:02:36 UTC  |  Edited by: MotherMoon
My Feedback

-Create a larger difference in cap use between tech 1 and 2 armor reps. Make tech 2 not better, make it a trade off. Better armor repair rate for unstable cap levels. While tech 1 armor reps would take less cap based on meta level.

-On grid boosting is still important. May I suggest they instead drop a boey? And that gives bonuses to everyone on the grid. This way the Command ship can warp off grid, but the bonuses will continue to apply through the boey. Obviously it could be destroyed, but the trick is to give it a large 200-300km range so it needs to be hunted down. Makes great use of the jump drives you added, and black ops battle ships. Basically increasing the battle field size and promoting small gang warfare in a small way. These could be slapped all over the place far away from each other.

-Finally overhaul the warping mechanic. The differences in warp speed don't even come into play *it's an ignored stat* and that could play a large role in battles were you warp smaller distances. Think about how much more useful smaller groups would be if they moved around faster compared to their larger heavy weapon brothers. Or if you go out into a null sec roam in thrashers it could be twice fast than it is today. The disadvantage of battleships would be the current warp speeds. If people can take smaller ships to fly a dramatic shorter flight time I think it would justify the year long frigate skill trees and boost t2 frigates/smaller gang warfare.

For instance you scare off a battleship and he warps back to a station, he escaped. However it should take 4 times longer for him to return than it does for the frigate you scared off. When the logi ship warps off you know you don't have to worry because it can be given a slower warp speed for balance. There could be a much larger difference between ships and make the game more tactical. I know it's because of some old code that holds this part of Eves design back, but I think it's important to the playerbase considering warping is one of the most common actions in the game. it's worth overhauling.

-Keep up the good work you guys have been fixing the very core of the game, please don't be afraid to really dig in deep. Please : (

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg

Landrik Blake
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#622 - 2013-08-08 01:47:53 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
For years one of the most hotly discussed issues surrounding warfare links is their ability to apply bonuses to fleet members anywhere in the same solar system. We will not be changing this aspect of the feature in Odyssey 1.1. There are some serious technical hurdles to adjusting this aspect of the features, which are being worked on as we speak but for which we are not currently ready to announce an ETA.

Would it be possible to use the D-Scan code when activating gang link modules as a temporary solution? I understand that D-Scan has it's own quirks, and grids themselves can be stretched and shaped in unusual ways, but D-Scan is usually pretty good at quickly determining which ships are on grid and which aren't. At this point, I think a less-than-perfect work around for the short term is still better than waiting another 12? 18? 24? months for a proper off-grid link fix.
Luke Frazza
Doomheim
#623 - 2013-08-08 02:09:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Luke Frazza
Links are an unfair mechanic, even though they are equally available to anyone in the game who desires to train them

Coming prepared to a fight means having everything in order; skills, ships, mods, rigs, drugs, ammo, implants, boosters.

I am so butthurt for losing my ship, because i didnt come prepared to the fight, and want to thank you for providing me a focus to blame (other than my own failure).

Also lets make sure we further penalize those who spent 6 months to a year training t3 boosters by making thier current implants less powerful and obsolete to faction implants. that will make me feel a little better about coming unprepared to the fight and losing my ship.

Fozzie seriously i think ur trying to hard to make everyone happy.

You made it so you cant boost inside a pos. great. Nerf complete. No wait cuz your next complaint ur gonna get from the QQ majority is, (whiny voice) "But i cant kill his booster because they have pos guns, can we nerf pos guns now?"

T3s can not be made to be improbable. You got people qqing here because the booster pilot is actually watching the dscan for probes? really?

You want to make sure Command Ships give more bonus than t3, no problem, everyone including the boosters agree with you on that.

2 pilots were always more powerful than 1 pilot with a booster.

But what about those who currently spent a year of training to fly all t3 boosters at max with mindlinks? Ur kind of screwing them over by saying they need to replace thier mindlinks.

I dont mind switching to command ships. I dont mind that boosters have to be out of the pos field. I think your other nerfs are way over overdone but as long as they are equally applied..

But if ur gonna introduce new mindlinks which make the old ones pretty much obsolete, then give us the option to unfit them and trade them in with lp for new ones. You say those mindlinks are about 150m? try 250m in some cases of the recent past

Only one guy got an unfair advantage from his t3 booster, the rest of us were just evening the playing field by not QQIng and training for it ourselves.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#624 - 2013-08-08 02:32:31 UTC
chatgris wrote:
Links should be modules that are activated on other players, like remote reps.

Once links are on grid, the larger fleet with more logi is even more powerful than it is now against a skirmishing force. Currently, you can at least try to rapidly switch targets to make the logi in the larger group maybe slip up and you can grab a ship.

Instead, with links on field the larger fleet can easier kill the smaller fleets links, and then be god mode.

The entire notion of a character that does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING once the fight is on is terrible. It just sits there, receives reps, and the links keep cycling. AND affects the ENTIRE fleets/wing/squad.

To close - bigger fleets generally have more logistical challenges as they grow - except for links. And links are not an active role, they are an alt role - If they are on grid - fit buffer + resists, get pre-locked by logi, turn on links and ignore. If off grid similar, but scan for probes. It's NOT an exciting role for a PLAYER to fulfill.

Making them something that gets activated on players actually means a PLAYER DOES SOMETHING while boosting. It also means that the player's skill at using the ship comes into play, and lack of that skill can be exploited by the other side.

Finally, all the performance issues go away, and the same remote rep code flows can pretty much transfer aggression.


Great idea.

Not only will the performance issues go away the extra $15 for a booster alt that does nothing but align out and scan for probes goes away. ... Oh wait!

Bottom line: Does ccp have enough confidence in eve long term to end this horrible mechanic where you have alts just sitting off grid giving your main god-mode. Or are they going for the short term money grab that some pathetic eve veterans will pay to drag a booster alt along with them wherever they go. Sadly some eve players are pathetic enough to do that. So normal people who just want to have fun in a game won't be able to compete. What sort of player/person does ccp want eve to attract?




Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Shamna Skor
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#625 - 2013-08-08 03:09:48 UTC
When a player has a lock on an enemy ship receiving off-grid boosts, why not have the location of the boosting ship appear on the sensor overlay and provide a warp-in as long as the boosts are still active and the ship receiving the boosts is still targeted. This makes sense from a "logic" perspective (if there is energy coming from a point in space and hitting my locked target then it's plausible that my sensors might pick it up), and also allows some sort of counter to off-grid safed-up boosts for those that are on-grid already.
Heinrich Skalder
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#626 - 2013-08-08 03:44:31 UTC
Glad I worked my butt off to get my Mining Foreman Mindlink just to have everyone else be able to get them. Nice job giving out freebies.
Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#627 - 2013-08-08 04:36:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Warde Guildencrantz
Wow, dont make a weapons timer for links, or ongrid boosting in lowsec fleet fights will cease to exist. Anything that makes support ships unable to jump at the same time as combat ships is bad design.

Stop making changes with off grid boosting in mind. You should be making changes as if offgrid boosting will be removed, because you promised it will be.

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us

Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#628 - 2013-08-08 04:39:47 UTC
Heinrich Skalder wrote:
Glad I worked my butt off to get my Mining Foreman Mindlink just to have everyone else be able to get them. Nice job giving out freebies.

I bought my first one when they were 400 million.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Evestriker
WASP.
#629 - 2013-08-08 04:51:54 UTC
Yet another reason for a lot of peeps the be peeved CCP

Might wanna concider the time and Money people have invested in skilling leadership to have it cut in half or even reduced is going to be a whip on the Private parts to a lot of people.

Everyone Knows what boosts there are if they want to invade a area they need to be prepared and compensate that into their assault.

The people who complain are the ones who either don't have or just fail in epic tactics.

If it aint broke CCP don't fix it , no offence but seriously focus more on the important stuff like memory dump issues Or even alliance member access to POS modules like Corp hanger arrays and storage areas, having just the ship maintanace array as only access is rather ridiculous.



I do applaud the Ice belt change as it has stopped a lot of Bot's.

Again No offence!

Flysafe

JD No7
V I R I I
#630 - 2013-08-08 07:30:46 UTC
The 1 minute activation timer is possibly the worst dev fix I've seen.

Give it the Logi type timer, or leave it alone. Don't break on grid boosters because the code is hard to fix.
StevieTopSiders
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#631 - 2013-08-08 07:44:05 UTC
The 1 minute aggression timer nerfs:

-On-grid Command Ships
-Command Ships chilling on gates
-Command Ships chilling on station

If two and three are really problems, just attack the link ships on statoin/gate, and they will have to dock or jump, dropping their bonuses?
Bubanni
Corus Aerospace
#632 - 2013-08-08 08:01:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Bubanni
nvm

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934

Totured Veracity
Galaxy in danger proj.
#633 - 2013-08-08 09:27:24 UTC
Quote:
We want to deal with several problems connected with command processors. They allow people to fit too many links on an alt gang booster, and they imbalance shield ships compared to armor fits. I like the idea of making them a rig, but there's still a lot of details to figure out so this won't be in 1.1.

Don't turn command proc's into rigs. That does not make sense at all, from any point of view. Better make them a module which can be fit either into med or low slot.
Sigras
Conglomo
#634 - 2013-08-08 10:41:32 UTC
Evestriker wrote:
Yet another reason for a lot of peeps the be peeved CCP

Might wanna concider the time and Money people have invested in skilling leadership to have it cut in half or even reduced is going to be a whip on the Private parts to a lot of people.

The fact that people trained a long time for something is not a valid reason to keep it overpowered. As someone with 14 million in leadership, i can tell you that gang links in their current state are totally broken.
Evestriker wrote:
Everyone Knows what boosts there are if they want to invade a area they need to be prepared and compensate that into their assault.

The people who complain are the ones who either don't have or just fail in epic tactics.

The problem is that currently gang links cannot be countered, they can only be nullified by bringing your own gang booster in order to bring you back up on an even playing field.

This is bad game design. if X is the only counter to X than everyone ends up just having to have X; it was the problem with speed back in 2007 it was the problem with super capitals before they were nerfed, and it is currently the problem with gang boosts.

When boosters are forced on grid, they will provide a bunch of options, decisions, tactics and strategies to each side making them a great addition to New Eden.

Evestriker wrote:
If it aint broke CCP don't fix it , no offence but seriously focus more on the important stuff like memory dump issues Or even alliance member access to POS modules like Corp hanger arrays and storage areas, having just the ship maintanace array as only access is rather ridiculous.

I agree, if it aint brok dont fix it, unfortunately, gang boosts in their current incarnation are totally broken.

Also, anyone can edit numbers in a database and tweak with bonuses; rewriting somebody else's back end server net code is something entirely different. Fozzie and Rise working on balance takes nothing away from the other endeavors, and if they werent working on balance, Id be willing to bet they also wouldnt be working on server code.
Sukur
WhiteOps
#635 - 2013-08-08 10:56:36 UTC
Why dont you just turn links to a targeted "weapon"?, similar to logistics.

That would end "afk safespot linking" wich is a terrible game mechanic.
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#636 - 2013-08-08 11:12:25 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:

  • We want to deal with several problems connected with command processors. They allow people to fit too many links on an alt gang booster, and they imbalance shield ships compared to armor fits. I like the idea of making them a rig, but there's still a lot of details to figure out so this won't be in 1.1.

  • Making Command Processors into a rig won't help much, people will still have rigged link ships running excessive link. A T3 could fit three link rigs for four links, a CS could fit two rigs for five links. It doesn't really change anything much from today.

    Unless, of course, you were to fiddle with the rig calibration to limit the number that could be fitted to one. That would work well, and would probably be a more flexible solution than the easy option of removing Command Processors altogether.
    Lephia DeGrande
    Luxembourg Space Union
    #637 - 2013-08-08 11:37:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Lephia DeGrande
    Give them Support Timer a seperate form for logis and CS which alowed to Jump trough gates but dont let dem Dock into Stations.

    Dont bother roaming if he is trying to escape throught a gate hes to slow to avoid being catched on the other side. Maybe even he gets trapped in a gatecamp if the enemys are smart enough.

    And the Fleet lost their Boost anyway...
    Roime
    Mea Culpa.
    Shadow Cartel
    #638 - 2013-08-08 11:41:48 UTC
    Gypsio III wrote:
    CCP Fozzie wrote:

  • We want to deal with several problems connected with command processors. They allow people to fit too many links on an alt gang booster, and they imbalance shield ships compared to armor fits. I like the idea of making them a rig, but there's still a lot of details to figure out so this won't be in 1.1.

  • Making Command Processors into a rig won't help much, people will still have rigged link ships running excessive link. A T3 could fit three link rigs for four links, a CS could fit two rigs for five links. It doesn't really change anything much from today.

    Unless, of course, you were to fiddle with the rig calibration to limit the number that could be fitted to one. That would work well, and would probably be a more flexible solution than the easy option of removing Command Processors altogether.


    It could cause some fitting issues with CPU, might not be so easy to make a T3 hard to probe.

    .

    Lephia DeGrande
    Luxembourg Space Union
    #639 - 2013-08-08 11:43:26 UTC
    Oh and i would love to see that your fleet get a "Debuff" when the Booster got killed while boosting (some tweaks may needed).

    So losing a Boosting Ship should really a punishment.
    Cearain
    Plus 10 NV
    #640 - 2013-08-08 14:22:28 UTC
    Sukur wrote:
    Why dont you just turn links to a targeted "weapon"?, similar to logistics.

    That would end "afk safespot linking" wich is a terrible game mechanic.


    This would be great. I think this is what chatgris recomended.

    Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815