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Titan Doomsday Idea

Author
Dairokuten Maoh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2013-08-02 15:48:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Dairokuten Maoh
The old AOE doomsday was too overpowered, but the new single target doomsday is too puny. Why would a ship class of a titan with all its mighty presence equipped with a weapon that can only kill a single capital (carriers and dreads only)every 10 minutes? It simply makes the titan image not as bad ass as they should be. None of the super capital flag ship you see in any science fiction is as weak as our eve titans.

Proposed changes : AOE Doomsday in a single straight line. In order for the doomsday to hit the target, the titan needs to align to the target and activate the doomsday. This means capital ship will still be hit, since they are very slow, and subcap has a much better chance to get out of the line of fire. However if anyone is caught within the line of fire, it is a guaranteed death or a 3 million alpha. The doomsday should have a range of 100 to 150km and the radius of the line should be 15km or TBD
Anything that is within 15km of the line of fire will receive damage. It will surely make the sky look very pretty having a line of ship pops by the doomsdays like the super yamato cannons.


This change will make the titan hadooken actually look like spaceship science fiction cannon that charges in front of titan and fires and annihilates anyone who stands before it. And it shall look cool while been relatively powerful. It would also make drive by doomsday much harder while increasing titan presence on battlefield by making them more useful in actual combat.

It might also indirectly encourage close range brawling instead of long range alpha when it comes to large scale fleet warfare.

余の前に人は無く、余の後にも人は無し Before me, nobody stands. Behind me, nobody stood.

Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#2 - 2013-08-02 16:01:53 UTC
Server will keel over if you do that in a 1000 pilot fight.

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.

Endeavour Starfleet
#3 - 2013-08-02 16:03:36 UTC
Titans and Supers need to be removed from the game. Not given another ability that will surely be nerfed down later.
Jason Itiner
Harmless People
#4 - 2013-08-02 16:19:57 UTC
This needs to be differentiated racially to fit with the current scheme.

For the Amarr, a big-ass solid-state laser works fine, dealing thermal/EM damage, as usual.
For the Caldari, a large plasma burst from a "XXXXXXXXXXL" hybrid, for thermal/kinetic damage.
For the Gallente, maybe a gigantic slug from a railgun, for pure kinetic damage (seems a bit underpowered, to be honest).
For the Minmatar, a very dense stream of unguided hypervelocity missiles, for kinetic/explosive damage. Or a wreck-launcher that throws the wrecks on the battlefield, as well as other Minmatar ships Lol.
Dairokuten Maoh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2013-08-02 16:22:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Dairokuten Maoh
Jason Itiner wrote:
This needs to be differentiated racially to fit with the current scheme.

For the Amarr, a big-ass solid-state laser works fine, dealing thermal/EM damage, as usual.
For the Caldari, a large plasma burst from a "XXXXXXXXXXL" hybrid, for thermal/kinetic damage.
For the Gallente, maybe a gigantic slug from a railgun, for pure kinetic damage (seems a bit underpowered, to be honest).
For the Minmatar, a very dense stream of unguided hypervelocity missiles, for kinetic/explosive damage. Or a wreck-launcher that throws the wrecks on the battlefield, as well as other Minmatar ships Lol.


Interesting idea,

Each racial titan can have a different type and range on their directional doomsday.
ie. amarr would be a single line of laser beams, caldari might have a wider burst radius with plasmas, gallente would have much shorter range but a big blast radius like a massive shot gun, minmatar would have longer range with their artillery falloff or something like that.

Minmatar
1. select ammo
2. reload "rifter"
3. align

余の前に人は無く、余の後にも人は無し Before me, nobody stands. Behind me, nobody stood.

Vizvig
Savage Blizzard
#6 - 2013-08-02 16:31:06 UTC
Arya Regnar wrote:
Server will keel over if you do that in a 1000 pilot fight.

Smart bombing.

mass casting of target breacking spell from motherships/
mass buff from OGB

no lagz
Jason Itiner
Harmless People
#7 - 2013-08-02 16:35:51 UTC
Dairokuten Maoh wrote:

Minmatar
1. select ammo
2. reload "rifter"
3. align


I've always thought the Naga should be able to fire frigates to cruisers from between the forward projecting tines, in the fashion of a railgun. Or at least mount a single capital-class railgun with no tracking... Twisted
Shiera Kuni
Electric Machete
#8 - 2013-08-02 16:43:25 UTC
I propose instead that the Titan Doomsday weapon is a gun, that fires other, smaller guns, which in turn fire battleships loaded with large smartbombs of that titan's racial damage type, which then burst into confetti after they've run through one cycle of SBs.


This would be less work, less server load, and more impressive (or lolworthy anyway) than the OP's idea. The main issue with your idea is, like what was mentioned, the server load would be too great. And that's not just from the standpoint of a thousand simultaneous ship explosions but also from the standpoint that there would need to be a massive change in how weapons are currently designed, so that an attack can not only collide with the targeted ship but also collide with every ship/object in its path. While collision physics would be a FANTASTIC idea (Which has been brought up at least two other times in the span of a week), it's just not viable at this time.

CCP Falcon:  This thread is terrible.

Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#9 - 2013-08-02 21:39:34 UTC
Dairokuten Maoh wrote:
The old AOE doomsday was too overpowered, but the new single target doomsday is too puny. Why would a ship class of a titan with all its mighty presence equipped with a weapon that can only kill a single capital (carriers and dreads only)every 10 minutes? It simply makes the titan image not as bad ass as they should be. None of the super capital flag ship you see in any science fiction is as weak as our eve titans.

Proposed changes : AOE Doomsday in a single straight line. In order for the doomsday to hit the target, the titan needs to align to the target and activate the doomsday. This means capital ship will still be hit, since they are very slow, and subcap has a much better chance to get out of the line of fire. However if anyone is caught within the line of fire, it is a guaranteed death or a 3 million alpha. The doomsday should have a range of 100 to 150km and the radius of the line should be 15km or TBD
Anything that is within 15km of the line of fire will receive damage. It will surely make the sky look very pretty having a line of ship pops by the doomsdays like the super yamato cannons.


This change will make the titan hadooken actually look like spaceship science fiction cannon that charges in front of titan and fires and annihilates anyone who stands before it. And it shall look cool while been relatively powerful. It would also make drive by doomsday much harder while increasing titan presence on battlefield by making them more useful in actual combat.

It might also indirectly encourage close range brawling instead of long range alpha when it comes to large scale fleet warfare.



Jump titans in ~80km off of a hostile fleet.

drop a couple of DDs at slightly different angles.

Congratulations, you've just wiped out the entire hostile fleet. We are now back in the good old days where literally no-one who didn't own a titan actually had fun in 0.0.
Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2013-08-02 21:54:59 UTC
Dairokuten Maoh wrote:
The old AOE doomsday was too overpowered, but the new single target doomsday is too puny. Why would a ship class of a titan with all its mighty presence equipped with a weapon that can only kill a single capital (carriers and dreads only)every 10 minutes? It simply makes the titan image not as bad ass as they should be. None of the super capital flag ship you see in any science fiction is as weak as our eve titans.

Proposed changes : AOE Doomsday in a single straight line. In order for the doomsday to hit the target, the titan needs to align to the target and activate the doomsday. This means capital ship will still be hit, since they are very slow, and subcap has a much better chance to get out of the line of fire. However if anyone is caught within the line of fire, it is a guaranteed death or a 3 million alpha. The doomsday should have a range of 100 to 150km and the radius of the line should be 15km or TBD
Anything that is within 15km of the line of fire will receive damage. It will surely make the sky look very pretty having a line of ship pops by the doomsdays like the super yamato cannons.


This change will make the titan hadooken actually look like spaceship science fiction cannon that charges in front of titan and fires and annihilates anyone who stands before it. And it shall look cool while been relatively powerful. It would also make drive by doomsday much harder while increasing titan presence on battlefield by making them more useful in actual combat.

It might also indirectly encourage close range brawling instead of long range alpha when it comes to large scale fleet warfare.


To make this idea even better I think titans should be vulnerable to ramming by frigates, just like that movie Independence Day. If the titan is powering up it's doomsday weapon a frigate can ram into it full speed and both ships explode, just like that newbie mission.
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2013-08-02 23:50:06 UTC
Dairokuten Maoh wrote:
Jason Itiner wrote:
This needs to be differentiated racially to fit with the current scheme.

For the Amarr, a big-ass solid-state laser works fine, dealing thermal/EM damage, as usual.
For the Caldari, a large plasma burst from a "XXXXXXXXXXL" hybrid, for thermal/kinetic damage.
For the Gallente, maybe a gigantic slug from a railgun, for pure kinetic damage (seems a bit underpowered, to be honest).
For the Minmatar, a very dense stream of unguided hypervelocity missiles, for kinetic/explosive damage. Or a wreck-launcher that throws the wrecks on the battlefield, as well as other Minmatar ships Lol.


Interesting idea,

Each racial titan can have a different type and range on their directional doomsday.
ie. amarr would be a single line of laser beams, caldari might have a wider burst radius with plasmas, gallente would have much shorter range but a big blast radius like a massive shot gun, minmatar would have longer range with their artillery falloff or something like that.

Minmatar
1. select ammo
2. reload "rifter"
3. align

when i read that last part i imagined a ragnarok firing actual rifters into enemy ships kamikaze style
Dairokuten Maoh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2013-08-03 04:57:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Dairokuten Maoh
Danika Princip wrote:
Dairokuten Maoh wrote:
The old AOE doomsday was too overpowered, but the new single target doomsday is too puny. Why would a ship class of a titan with all its mighty presence equipped with a weapon that can only kill a single capital (carriers and dreads only)every 10 minutes? It simply makes the titan image not as bad ass as they should be. None of the super capital flag ship you see in any science fiction is as weak as our eve titans.

Proposed changes : AOE Doomsday in a single straight line. In order for the doomsday to hit the target, the titan needs to align to the target and activate the doomsday. This means capital ship will still be hit, since they are very slow, and subcap has a much better chance to get out of the line of fire. However if anyone is caught within the line of fire, it is a guaranteed death or a 3 million alpha. The doomsday should have a range of 100 to 150km and the radius of the line should be 15km or TBD
Anything that is within 15km of the line of fire will receive damage. It will surely make the sky look very pretty having a line of ship pops by the doomsdays like the super yamato cannons.


This change will make the titan hadooken actually look like spaceship science fiction cannon that charges in front of titan and fires and annihilates anyone who stands before it. And it shall look cool while been relatively powerful. It would also make drive by doomsday much harder while increasing titan presence on battlefield by making them more useful in actual combat.

It might also indirectly encourage close range brawling instead of long range alpha when it comes to large scale fleet warfare.



Jump titans in ~80km off of a hostile fleet.

drop a couple of DDs at slightly different angles.

Congratulations, you've just wiped out the entire hostile fleet. We are now back in the good old days where literally no-one who didn't own a titan actually had fun in 0.0.


Oh ok Mr. Titan is 80k away, hictors at tactical decloak and warp to cyno, guys align your blaster rokh/neuting tempest....etc toward Mr.Titan and flip your MJD on. Time to go to town! FYI Subcaps will always align faster than titan.

Bye Bye Mr. Titan.


That is exactly why I mentioned it will indirectly encourages close range brawling battles in large scale fleet war instead of boring long range alpha, because if you drop a titan and aim your DD at the subcap, you will be killing both the hostile and friendlies, because they are all on top of each other.

余の前に人は無く、余の後にも人は無し Before me, nobody stands. Behind me, nobody stood.

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#13 - 2013-08-03 05:06:51 UTC
This idea would require a line of sight mechanic to be implemented...

and while such a mechanic would be very interesting (it would certainly be an "organic" way to break up blobs, but it would also severely hamper "brawling" fights) I shudder to think how it would affect server performance.
Dairokuten Maoh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2013-08-03 05:09:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Dairokuten Maoh
ShahFluffers wrote:
This idea would require a line of sight mechanic to be implemented...

and while such a mechanic would be very interesting (it would certainly be an "organic" way to break up blobs, but it would also severely hamper "brawling" fights) I shudder to think how it would affect server performance.



why would it hamper brawling fights? if anything it would encourage it, because you want to hold your enemy hostage by statying on top of them so the titan wont dd your fleet or it will be killing both you and his own people.

余の前に人は無く、余の後にも人は無し Before me, nobody stands. Behind me, nobody stood.

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#15 - 2013-08-03 06:23:26 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Dairokuten Maoh wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:
This idea would require a line of sight mechanic to be implemented...

and while such a mechanic would be very interesting (it would certainly be an "organic" way to break up blobs, but it would also severely hamper "brawling" fights) I shudder to think how it would affect server performance.


why would it hamper brawling fights? if anything it would encourage it, because you want to hold your enemy hostage by statying on top of them so the titan wont dd your fleet or it will be killing both you and his own people.

As someone who lives in low-sec... "brawls" often involve all ships, friendly and hostile, getting mixed up with each other into a multicolored ball of carnage. A line of sight mechanic would mean that everyone would basically be shooting "randomly" in a sense because it is extremely difficult (to nearly impossible) to see "who's in the way" when everything is less than 10km of you.

It also makes fights in high-sec, around stargates, and around stations extremely problematic (as there would be a definite possibility of shooting things and people you shouldn't be shooting).

What it would encourage is better fleet tactics and positioning (which is not a bad thing)... the use of drone ships (non-sentry drones have to get close anyways)... and ranged/kiting tactics (where the enemy is all over "there" and you are over "here").


edit: also... in the "old days" Titans would not hesitate to doomsday their own fleets in addition to the enemy fleet if they felt it was necessary (or in their interest) to do so.
Jason Itiner
Harmless People
#16 - 2013-08-03 09:53:15 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
edit: also... in the "old days" Titans would not hesitate to doomsday their own fleets in addition to the enemy fleet if they felt it was necessary (or in their interest) to do so.


To quote Flash Gordon: "One life for many - a rational transaction." Smile
Tabris Katz
The Forgotten Children
#17 - 2013-08-03 11:12:24 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Dairokuten Maoh wrote:
Jason Itiner wrote:
This needs to be differentiated racially to fit with the current scheme.

For the Amarr, a big-ass solid-state laser works fine, dealing thermal/EM damage, as usual.
For the Caldari, a large plasma burst from a "XXXXXXXXXXL" hybrid, for thermal/kinetic damage.
For the Gallente, maybe a gigantic slug from a railgun, for pure kinetic damage (seems a bit underpowered, to be honest).
For the Minmatar, a very dense stream of unguided hypervelocity missiles, for kinetic/explosive damage. Or a wreck-launcher that throws the wrecks on the battlefield, as well as other Minmatar ships Lol.


Interesting idea,

Each racial titan can have a different type and range on their directional doomsday.
ie. amarr would be a single line of laser beams, caldari might have a wider burst radius with plasmas, gallente would have much shorter range but a big blast radius like a massive shot gun, minmatar would have longer range with their artillery falloff or something like that.

Minmatar
1. select ammo
2. reload "rifter"
3. align

when i read that last part i imagined a ragnarok firing actual rifters into enemy ships kamikaze style



I see nothing wrong with this! I demand CCP makes a new kind of minmatar launcher for titans, Rifter launcher! Lol
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2013-08-03 11:18:51 UTC
Tabris Katz wrote:
I see nothing wrong with this! I demand CCP makes a new kind of minmatar launcher for titans, Rifter launcher! Lol

I also want to pilot the rifter being fired. Would explain the killmails that say a ship was used as the weapon lol
Tobias Hareka
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2013-08-03 14:45:47 UTC
- There's already too many supers.
- It would be exploited to hell and back.
- Think about the hamsters!
- There's already too many supers.
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#20 - 2013-08-03 14:54:23 UTC
I certainly don't want to see another AoE Doomsday.


The Problem with Supercapitals is, you need Supercapitals to take them down. The ongoing tweaking of capitals is trying to make them more vulnerable to subcaps. Allowing Titans to wipeout huge chunks of subcaps just by aiming at them and firing their doomsday is contraproductive.

I can bring a Ragnarok to a Aligntime of 18.6 seconds before imps. Since it's usually a shieldtanked and crystals don't work, you're pretty much free in your choice of an impset. I choose the lowgrade Nomad impset. Aligntime drops to 13.6 seconds.


If you now keep in mind that after a jump your ship is at 0 m/s and thus NOT ALIGNED unless it gets bumped, with your proposed change you would see the following:

Titan jumping to a cyno ~100 off hostile fleet. Aligns towards fleet. Since he was not aligned before, he will be immediately aligned towards the fleet. The graphical hull is not an indicator for the alignment of your ship. Doomsday goes off, 300 ships dead immediately. Imagine this with more Titans shooting at different targets of the cluster, and you're back in the golden days of double and tripple doomsdays.

Now, even if they get bumped. With a Aligntime of 13 seconds, it actually takes 13 seconds to drop the current vector and fully achieve the new one.

13 seconds after a jumpin, the DD can get fired.

And with refitting you're back in a tanky or ganky blap setup only seconds after.


Your argument of Hics and Dics dropping cloak and warping to cyno doesn't work, as these titans may have their OWN support out of their lign of fire.

Your argument of Rokhs mwd-jumping to the Titans does not work, as they will be without Logi. Keep this in mind. Logi can't MJD, and a distance of 100km is too much for Triage carriers. Dropping a bunch of dreads away from the titans to guard them from MJD Battleships would be easy and effective.


I really like the Idea of Titans being able to wtfpwn some blobs, but it's just absurdly OP, and keep in mind that those guys with the biggest blobs also have their own Titans...






What i WOULD like to see though is making Titans a little bit more powerful vs. other capitals. The Doomsday is a great weapon able of alphaing Carriers and dealing heavy damage towards Supercarriers and Titans, ...
but it's useless in Low-Sec. See Uedama / Valentines Massace, where NC jumped in a shitload of titans that were just missplaced vs the Supercarriers of DRF. They could not fire their doomsdays. They were litteraly useless.

Now if the Doomsday might have some scripts that allow for ... i don't know, ewar doomsday maybe, that might be ******* sweet.

For example something like this:

Damage Modifier: 0
Capacitor Drain Amount : 50.000
ECM Strength: 500
Velocity Modifier: -80%
Warp Scramble Strength: 15
Can be used on targets that are usually immune to electronic warfare
Can be used in Low Security Space
Can be used vs non-capital ships

Switch module behaviour to a cycle time of 30 seconds + Reactivation delay, so you don't jam someone for 10 minutes straight while webbing and scrambling him.


Will make Titans useful even in Lowsec, where they can land tackle on another super, neut them, jam them, web them, and all of this stuff now also to subcaps! Great for shutting down a Hictor for example. Useless if they have 2 Hictors. But at least something...