These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Odyssey 1.1] Tech 1 Industrials, Round 2

First post
Author
Rune Scorpio
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#781 - 2013-07-24 13:36:53 UTC
Spotted Jaguar Bheskagor wrote:
Thank you CCP Rise for this DEV Blog and please keep up all your hard efforts.

As a pilot of many of these current versions of ships and reading thru most of this blog and will be following it routinely. I'd like to make some suggestions in changes as some have been made already.

General Changes:
1. Base warp speed should be the same all across the board for all T1 industrials.
2. Each race has a specific role to it's own story line (outlined basics below for each).
3. The Orca ore hold should be increased to compete with the 42,000 m3 capabilities proposed in the Iteron Mark IV (Miasmos) changes.
4. None of the specialty cargo holds can be increased thru modules and rigs.
5. Any future ships to be introduced should include Amarr and Minmatar based ships with bonuses to those races preferred weapons and tank repair specialties.


AMARR:
Heavily armor based and a large general cargo capacity is the big and bold Amarr way.

Sigil – The best armor of all the industrials having the best hit points of them all. 10% Armor HP + 5% Cargo Capacity.

Bestower – Capable of having the largest universal cargo space of all the industrials. 10% Cargo Capacity + 5% Maximum Velocity. Also capable of 2 turrets.

FUTURE SHIP: Laser bonus based battle Amarr hauler.


CALDARI:
Defensive is the reason for the Caldari State whether thru missile damage or being shield tanked.

Badger – As proposed having the most potential and base cargo, this industrial is also capable of defending itself in a offensive manner. 10% Heavy and Heavy Assault Missile Damage + 5% Cargo Capacity. 0 turrets, 2 launchers. With a solid dual launcher DPS, it's tank suffers.

Badger Mark II – A improved version of the Badger, yet why not be the industrial with the best shield tank? 10% Shield HP + 5% Cargo Capacity. Can carry only 2 heavy launchers yet doesn't get the damage bonuses as it's sister ship where it's shield tank is it's advantage. Also maybe needs a new name.

FUTURE SHIP: A balanced Badger utilizing both of the above at a lesser degree.


MINMATAR:
Speed and the capability to re-supply fleets is its advantage.

Wreathe – Speed is the advantage of this industrial. 10% Maximum Velocity + 5% Cargo Capacity. Has the best agility and speed of all industrials.
SIDE NOTE: It was mentioned a POS Fuel Block specialist ship be made available and as you mentioned it isn't possible ATM. The Wreathe could be a possible candidate to get bonuses in hauling both gas and ice bi-products instead.

Mammoth – Travel time is it's advantage. 10% Warp Speed + 5% Cargo Capacity. Also has a solid align time with a better then average base speed.

Hoarder – The ammunition mover in space. It is capable of being accessible in space like a fleet hanger resupplying fleets with ammunition and cap boosters. There is also a "need" to include drones in this bay. 10% Ammunition Bay Capacity + 5% Maximum Speed.


GALLANTE:
The drone based race and have the most diverse industrial ships.

Iteron – The industrial mini-drone boat. Like the Badger, able to defend itself but with drones. 10% Drone Damage + 5% Cargo Capacity. Capability only to carry 6-7 light drones.

Kyros (Iteron Mark II) – The mineral mover of space. Maybe increase it's mineral bay a bit.

Epithal (Iteron Mark III) – The PI mover of space (Take over the Primae's role yet see note at the bottom). Cargo hold will need a cargo expander to fit a command center.

Miasmos (Iteron Mark IV)- The “Mini-Orca” of space without the large tank, cargo hold, and huge bonuses. Instead of Maximum Velocity, why not something like a +10% tractor beam range and +10% Ore Capacity. Capable of its special bay to hold both compressed and standard ore, ice, and gas. With two high slots for a tractor beam and salvager to pull jettisoned cans and salvage wrecks. Not greatly tanked.

Iteron Mark V – Average is not the word this boat should be known for yet instead awesome. Give it the capability of having a larger drone bay then its smallest sister. Capable of carrying 75 m3 of drones plus the proper fitting to be actively armor tanked with a 5% armor repair rate, 5% drone damage, and 5% cargo capacity will make grinding to the Mark V worth it. The big moving and fighting industrial ship. Also needs a new name.


PRIMAE:
It was mentioned the Primae was the most under utilized ship in Eve. Two possible suggestions:

1. Many call for a ship that can move ships. Why not change the role of the Primae to become that such ship in the future? Capable of carrying 1 fitted battleship and less.

2. POS Specialist Ship – Bay designed to carry at least one control tower or any equivalant m3 worth of POS Fuels and POS Modules.


Kyros? Bad Jaguar! Bad! Names similar to other ships make the intel gods unhappy!
TheCoylee
Death by Disassociation
#782 - 2013-07-24 16:38:41 UTC
its a nice step forward but as haulers go the Bestower and Interon V are still better you can load up a Bestower with 13 giant cargo containers giving you 50700m3 and the Inty V 46800m3 space which is way more then the ore or mineral bays on the specialized ships. The PI ship makes sense so you can drop in the hold directly and same for ammo if your doing a supply run but for making a run to Jita or the equivalent the special bays seem useless unless they change cargo containers or allow cargo containers in the special bays(which defeats the purpose)
Mikhem
Taxisk Unlimited
#783 - 2013-07-24 21:00:43 UTC
Long time ago I suggested that there could be industrial ship with small maintenance bay. This could allow refitting frigate size ships in space.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=208898&find=unread

Mikhem

Link library to EVE music songs.

Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#784 - 2013-07-25 13:05:56 UTC
Rees Noturana wrote:
After pissy tweet I expected changes made in anger but I'm liking these better. See, just put a little love into something that isn't designed solely for shooting people in the face and you can make people happy.


^^^This.^^^

The only downside here is that those gatecampers can now distinguish what industrial is moving what, without even a need of a scanner (as the bays are too specific).

Would be nice if we had a sub-system for storage options, especially for those who prefer flying certain racial ships. To leave folks guessing what ship is carrying what (which is the current system's mystery).

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell

Kraschyn Thek'athor
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#785 - 2013-07-31 00:47:40 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:

The only downside here is that those gatecampers can now distinguish what industrial is moving what, without even a need of a scanner (as the bays are too specific).

Would be nice if we had a sub-system for storage options, especially for those who prefer flying certain racial ships. To leave folks guessing what ship is carrying what (which is the current system's mystery).


99% of all Gatecampers will kill you just for the sake of getting an killmail.

Highsec Pirates now know your general content, I think of this as an.... new tank style. Bulk Tanking. So much worthless stuff to haul arround as an pirate, that it is a waste of time and Catalysts.
Drogdasan
Calvary's Cavalry
#786 - 2013-07-31 03:59:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Drogdasan
Lucky me, now I get to rip out 400 mil worth of rigs. I used to use two Itty V's to haul ice in fleet ops, now they fit 4 blocks less and I have to switch to a bloody bestower.
Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#787 - 2013-07-31 04:54:32 UTC
Drogdasan wrote:
Lucky me, now I get to rip out 400 mil worth of rigs. I used to use two Itty V's to haul ice in fleet ops, now they fit 4 blocks less and I have to switch to a bloody bestower.


Or you could be slightly less whiny and realize that you can put 63 blocks of ice into a itty 4 without a single mod or rig. Your call.
Andrew Indy
Cleaning Crew
#788 - 2013-07-31 08:18:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Andrew Indy
Drogdasan wrote:
Lucky me, now I get to rip out 400 mil worth of rigs. I used to use two Itty V's to haul ice in fleet ops, now they fit 4 blocks less and I have to switch to a bloody bestower.


You only loss about 1000m3 with this change. Not to mention that the Bestower has a 2 second slower align time.

Hardly the end of the world. Now imagine if you where a Amarr pilot who flew a Bestower with 10k Less m3, less tank and slower align time for the past 10 years (or however long indys have been around.)

PS, nothing is forcing you to remove the rigs. you can still use the ship and get better performance from the ship.

Edit - Sorry it was 14k less m3 between the old Bestower and the Inty 5, 1k is nothing in comparison.
Drogdasan
Calvary's Cavalry
#789 - 2013-08-01 04:41:56 UTC
Ersahi Kir wrote:
Drogdasan wrote:
Lucky me, now I get to rip out 400 mil worth of rigs. I used to use two Itty V's to haul ice in fleet ops, now they fit 4 blocks less and I have to switch to a bloody bestower.


Or you could be slightly less whiny and realize that you can put 63 blocks of ice into a itty 4 without a single mod or rig. Your call.


Still making my Itty V worthless.
Drogdasan
Calvary's Cavalry
#790 - 2013-08-01 04:44:03 UTC
Andrew Indy wrote:
Drogdasan wrote:
Lucky me, now I get to rip out 400 mil worth of rigs. I used to use two Itty V's to haul ice in fleet ops, now they fit 4 blocks less and I have to switch to a bloody bestower.


You only loss about 1000m3 with this change. Not to mention that the Bestower has a 2 second slower align time.

Hardly the end of the world. Now imagine if you where a Amarr pilot who flew a Bestower with 10k Less m3, less tank and slower align time for the past 10 years (or however long indys have been around.)

PS, nothing is forcing you to remove the rigs. you can still use the ship and get better performance from the ship.

Edit - Sorry it was 14k less m3 between the old Bestower and the Inty 5, 1k is nothing in comparison.


Because previously you'd train Amarr to get into Freighters, you didn't train Gallente to fly an Obelisk.
And it's only 1K difference if you're using T1 rigs, I wouldn't give a damn then, and it sure as hell wouldn't be valued at 400mil, I guess reading is just too hard for some folks.
Devon Weeks
Asteroid Mining Industries
Salt Mining Industrialists
#791 - 2013-08-01 10:25:59 UTC
This looks excellent. Glad I'm already trained to Gallente industrial V!!! Cool
Meditril
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#792 - 2013-08-01 10:51:51 UTC
So the Industrials now have a higher in warp speed than every Cruiser? What kind of logic is this?
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#793 - 2013-08-01 11:36:18 UTC
Drogdasan wrote:
Lucky me, now I get to rip out 400 mil worth of rigs. I used to use two Itty V's to haul ice in fleet ops, now they fit 4 blocks less and I have to switch to a bloody bestower.

I've had rigs removed intact with a politely-worded petition in the past when a ship's role changed.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

Ex02
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#794 - 2013-08-01 15:49:37 UTC
Has CCP said:

- if existing iteron bpos will be upgraded to the new named ships?

- if existing iteron 2, 3, 4 bpcs will be changed to produce the new named ships?

- if existing iteron 2, 3, 4 ships will automatically become the new ships?

I assume yes to all, but you know about what assumptions do. Roll

- dropped any hints other than "summer" when this change may happen? It is now August and fall for some is soon to begin.

Thanks

Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#795 - 2013-08-01 16:39:58 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Drogdasan wrote:
Lucky me, now I get to rip out 400 mil worth of rigs. I used to use two Itty V's to haul ice in fleet ops, now they fit 4 blocks less and I have to switch to a bloody bestower.

I've had rigs removed intact with a politely-worded petition in the past when a ship's role changed.


The ship role isn't changing.
Sunai Karvinoinas
#796 - 2013-08-02 15:33:56 UTC
I've overseen, here's already the second approach to get an Industrial Ship role concept. Sh** happens.

A real simple thing would be to replace the special cargo ships to the ORE Industrial family (skill path). They can get new skins matching ORE and are easily done. The ammo ship could get a Syndicate skin but keeps the ORE skill path.

I often read about ship transport ships or "micro carrier". Well IMHO it's no job for a common industrial ship or hauler. Maybe you can carry 2 or 3 ships of frigate size...
I think a good approach would be to have overhauled and new (sub)capital industrials (Thread W-Ore Ships). But that's worth another thread. Oh, no, there are a huge amount of threads about, of curse. But CCP has trained to ignore them.

A real good idea for roles would be industrial gang assistance. A ship with fleet hangar or maintenance bay has been introduced earlier this thread.
Maybe a ship or module/subsystem what's able to do ore compression... A ship/module/subsystem what provides a clone bay...
A T1 industrial could provide 1 assisting solution, a T2 could combine 2 of them. But only a capital (Rorqual) can have all of them.
But a Rorqual never have see in HiSec, while the mentioned industrial ships could be worthy to be used there.

An ammo ship could be the first step to "tactical haulers". They also could assist and do background services like fuel service, repair and so on. They could provide an unique station service.

But I'm in dept, that the special cargo ships (except ore hauler) will come in heavy usage.

---

Don't worry about the keyword PRIMAE recently. It only should show possibilities. I never meaned their settings. It's a unique ship presented once by CCP in past.
But the thought behind was a step to the right direction of spreading up industrial roles instead of carrying cargo only. We even have much enough haulers yet. There's no need of further ones. But real industrial ships are rare.

And once more I like to introduce the ORE container tugger. Dependend on skill level you may anchor, unanchor and adapt 1 to 5 Containers with up to 27,500m³ capacity each. Special cargo containers could be possible too. There's no need to get it as a T1 ship. But sorry, this could make haulers obsolete. Each tugged container will rise the align time and reduce the subwarp speed. Warp speed might be about 2.5 AE/s.
This ship could also assist (speed up) anchor and unanchor procedures and delivers gang/fleet/corp assistance due to "anchoring for third party" possibilities. Opens the door to more detailed and specialized service contracts.

As far as you see, I act as an industrial guy. I'm not interested in any fighting or PvP options. But I respect the guys who like to have...
Insidiousbag
Intentionally Dense
United Federation of Conifers
#797 - 2013-08-02 16:04:26 UTC
I find the changes to the T1 haulers quite good but i do have one question.

Why has the Hoarder unpacked volume changed?

None of the other haulers have had this treatment.
Endeavour Starfleet
#798 - 2013-08-02 16:38:39 UTC
Insidiousbag wrote:
I find the changes to the T1 haulers quite good but i do have one question.

Why has the Hoarder unpacked volume changed?

None of the other haulers have had this treatment.


Mineral compression.
Blastil
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#799 - 2013-08-02 20:08:22 UTC
Drogdasan wrote:
Ersahi Kir wrote:
Drogdasan wrote:
Lucky me, now I get to rip out 400 mil worth of rigs. I used to use two Itty V's to haul ice in fleet ops, now they fit 4 blocks less and I have to switch to a bloody bestower.


Or you could be slightly less whiny and realize that you can put 63 blocks of ice into a itty 4 without a single mod or rig. Your call.


Still making my Itty V worthless.


I'll take it off your hands for free. Still going to use mine!
Beofryn Sedorak
#800 - 2013-08-02 22:19:12 UTC
Ex02 wrote:
Has CCP said:

- if existing iteron bpos will be upgraded to the new named ships?

- if existing iteron 2, 3, 4 bpcs will be changed to produce the new named ships?

- if existing iteron 2, 3, 4 ships will automatically become the new ships?

I assume yes to all, but you know about what assumptions do. Roll

- dropped any hints other than "summer" when this change may happen? It is now August and fall for some is soon to begin.

Thanks



As 1.1 will make combat changes in addition to industrial changes, It's doubtful we'll see it before the end of the Alliance tournament.

So Sometime between then and the end of summer.

Little known fact, It's still "summer" until it ends.