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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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[Odyssey 1.1] Warfare Links, Mindlinks, Gang bonuses

First post First post First post
Author
Cage Man
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#321 - 2013-08-02 01:13:28 UTC
if i put a mining link's on my vulture, will I need to be or outside the force field? maybe add this to the original post as there are way to many posts to read them all for the answer.
Endeavour Starfleet
#322 - 2013-08-02 01:32:51 UTC
Another HUGE Stealth Nerf to Incursion fleets. AGAIN! What is it about hisec grouping content that has you so mad?

These nerfs will do little more than turn the game into Alpha this nao online while badly needed other features go ignored or delayed because of this.

If you are going to be changing aspects of the game. Why did you not spend your development time addressing how overpowered the ability to go AFK While cloaked is? Will we see any changes to that for 1.1? If links being inside a POS is so bad. Don't you think it would be a similar idea to make Cloaks slowly be able to be probed down to encourage people to be active at their clients while cloaked in enemy systems?
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#323 - 2013-08-02 01:46:34 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
MainDrain wrote:
Obviously there won't be a navy version of the mining links, but will there be an Ore version of the mining links with the same increase in bonus as the Navy links?


The navy links give the same bonus as the normal mindlinks, but they give it to multiple disciplines at once.

We may add an Ore link at some point, if so it will probably give Mining Foreman and Siege Warfare bonuses.


Just don't forget the ancient tradition of remote hull tanking capsules. Since ORE ships place the emphasis on structure tanking, perhaps it is time to introduce proper logistics/leadership/link skills, modules and rigs to support hull tanking? Current hull repairers are crazily inefficient, even a 100% boost to repair amount would render them only mostly useless :)

I look forward to your ideas for rebalancing Rorquals to allow them to provide boosts outside POS shields. My preferred option would be moving the bonus from the core to the hull, leaving the opportunity to install different cores for ore compression, refining, or remote hull tanking (ie: triage rorqual).
maCH'EttE
Perkone
Caldari State
#324 - 2013-08-02 01:50:20 UTC
Buhhdust Princess wrote:
Congratulations Fozzie you have just:

1. Reduced the chances Soloers have actively fighting small gang.
2. Stopped Small gangs fighting Larger gangs without using bombers, or snipers @ 200km.

But heh, I guess no one cares about the small guys when you run a business, as they don't bring in so much revenue.

I actually thought when you first released these "ideas" that you were all high.

Its a conspiracy maiin, i told you, its like damn fools trying to sell you a whole chicken but give you two of each side. Come on, when i want a chicken, i want one right side and one left side.
CCP dont care about that, dolla dolla bill yo.
kick them small pvp corps to the curb, support them large allainces, they bring the dough for thems sour dough bagel. F1, F2 warriors rule.
Triple stack them links, give 4 logi to each link ship, who cares, when you got a fleet of 200+ or even 60+.
Dolla Dolla bill yo.
Conspiracy.
I got friends in secret places.
NaK'Lin
Seamen Force
#325 - 2013-08-02 01:51:37 UTC
Thank you so much for this nerf. It was incredibly unnecessary and we people in lowsec will love you forever.

Here's the thing, though; Boosts allow us to fight larger gangs or blobs coming along. It evens the field. Especially in lowsec, where you can't deny people access to stations and other system-protecting mechanics that null has.
Who wan'ts to actively play the fleet booster? with the possible exception of nullsec, that's always the role of an alt. Let's be honest here. Nullblobs can spare 1-3 in 255 to sit in a command ship. Downsizing the active players in a gang of 4 by one to sit in an actively played booster ship makes you think if you want to take the engagement at all.

Also, T3 subsystem should get a bonus to be able to natively fit THREE (3) warfare modules (just as command ships do). If you want them probable and outside of a POS and you give them bonuses to different links (implicitly expecting more than one warfare link at the same time), then don't make them have to fit as many command processors and therefore a lowslot rack of co-processors. It's bad enough to have 10k ehp and being probable while roaming. now you have to be insta-poppable in your home system, too ?
Bad design is just bad design.

Lastly, the nerf, sorry "balancing", is only hitting the links where people without links (i wonder why) complained about. Why did painter links not get hit? Because they are not overpowered in regards to painters or because little people use painters, hence noone complained yet?

Solo PvP is a non-existent dream. Even when i go out alone, people don't engage me. I have to bloody shoot people hugging a station, and they *might* engage back, and only if they can reship in station and are having a 5v1 ratio in man-power. Hence, i bring links and make this party fun.
I won't anymore, it seems.
VioletRay
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#326 - 2013-08-02 01:53:28 UTC  |  Edited by: VioletRay
Sigras wrote:
maCH'EttE wrote:
This is one of the conspiracies forwarded by CCP to kill small gang pvp.
Thank you CCP.
Blob warfare = more cash for CCP
small gang = who da f gives a damn.

so by nerfing something that large fleets use, they have buffed large fleets?

please tell me more about how you would balance ships . . .



You don't get it do you? Nerfing T3 links and buffing commandship links mean that the more number you have it's easier to pull one people to be in the commandship. When you have 3 people, putting one of them in commandship loses 1/3 of your entire dps. When you have 20? You lose 1/20.

So making commandship links superier to T3 links ends up to buff larger fleet and somewhat kill small fleet by giving even better links to the larger fleet and worse one to the small fleet. You get this?

You are taking the chances away from small fleet by doing this balancing. Who would want to fight larger numbers when you know they have even better links than yours?

Just make the all links the same or delete the whole links stuff tbh. It's the better way to go.
NaK'Lin
Seamen Force
#327 - 2013-08-02 01:56:36 UTC
Since I'm on the topic:

POS sitting boosters usually applied to "home" systems.
We don't have SOV in lowsec. And in nullsec it didn't matter and people didn't complain because they come in blobs anyways.

So how to defend ourselves in lowsec, in systems we settled down? Lowsec corps/alliances already have less people than nullsec blobs and don't hold sov over systems.
It's not like people took POS towers on a roam and anchored them for their T3 booster. so what was the problem?

Also T3s don't need another sensor strength / signature nerf. My maxed prober with virtues probes a boosting T3 in about 2-3 cycles MAX. L2Probe and skill your toon. you shouldn't be able to probe them with half-asssed probers.
Mordorator
Eau Rouge
#328 - 2013-08-02 02:00:27 UTC
The Loki boost combination is terrible.
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#329 - 2013-08-02 02:24:50 UTC
Linkhoars wrote:
Waaah waah waaaaah our ability to "fight larger gangs"aka kite at 45km with Condors picking apart people at will forever and ever amen, is destroyed /sub.


Linkhoars Alts wrote:
Blub blub I am in brosec and I rely on a POS booster. Now you're saying I have to put gunss on my POS to defend my 750M Loki booster and its clone?!?!


Tears? BUENO!

Here's the solution to the people whining about having to be outside the POS: pay attention to your alt. Put up 4 x ECM batteries, a scram, and 4 x small arties. It's only got to be a small POS to park a Claymore outside of it, or a boosting Loki. I mean, sheesh, what's that going to cost you? 120M outlay instead of, as it is now, 65M. Plus, of course, paying attention whereas now you just alt-tab and "fight outnumbered to even the odds" which has always, till now, been "gain superpowers for one character with no consequences to the other".

if you don't like leaving your alt cooling it's heels 500m outside the forcefield (I mean, seriously...it's just as invulnerable...no one can blap a Claymore before it gets inside) then do it on station, like you always can do. This whining is the least valid whining in EVE.

I also don't think the sensor res buff is good. It just means you can use one less alt to achieve instalock. The point made about upping BS scan res is a very, very valid one. Do that instead. I have never heard anyone complaining "that dude locked me from so far outside my lock range and point range that I died because I fully FORGOT TO WARP OFF" - it's always "I jumped gate and I was pointed and webbed before I even decloaaked".

in reality, the interdiction sub changes were the best bit. You can still achieve greatness with pimp and boosts - you just don't obsolete Arazus with, eg, a loki boosted faction point.

The info warfare link changes will require some going through in detail, as they aren't neccessarily currently the most abused, so I don't know whether there is a need to nerf them. Nor do i really see what kind of abuse one could get up to with 35% buffs to TP's versus 20% buffs. I guess it might be an issue in dread blapping but IMHO, Legion and Loki links are more used in those situations.
Tjo Sephagen
Perkone
Caldari State
#330 - 2013-08-02 02:38:16 UTC
These mindlink and command ship changes are good enough to log Tjo in for a shopping spree in Jita.

When will the navy mindlinks seed?

All Vs across the board, baby. All that cross-training will truly pay off now that both links and CS support multiple bonus types. Hurrah!
NaK'Lin
Seamen Force
#331 - 2013-08-02 03:00:05 UTC
Tjo Sephagen wrote:
These mindlink and command ship changes are good enough to log Tjo in for a shopping spree in Jita.

When will the navy mindlinks seed?

All Vs across the board, baby. All that cross-training will truly pay off now that both links and CS support multiple bonus types. Hurrah!


It does pay off, doesn't it? all that time spent to train and max 4 different T3s and 4 different command ships, while two of each could have been enough.
hooray for wasted SP that i'll (a) never recover and (b) will now be worth ditch when selling a character in the future.
Angsty Teenager
Broski North
#332 - 2013-08-02 03:34:44 UTC
So deluded.

I had a big post typed out for this but I've already said it before and I decided it was ******** to say again. I just don't think that anybody at CCP actually understands how pvp needs to work in this game, because nerfing links at this point in the game is a terrible decision, and I personally would rather that links were just removed completely since at least that way I would get my SP back.

I'm still going to petition for it back though since CCP seems hellbent on making links essentially useless. Hopefully they'll also give me back my T3 skills since judging from the HAC changes (which make HACs still completely non-viable), T3's are going to become useless as well. And also Command Ships V since having that trained is now completely useless and was a waste of SP.

I can't believe that they aren't at least making on-grid links as good as current off-grid links are, really ********. "HEY GUYS LETS JUST MAKE THESE BONUSES BE 5% BETTER IF THEY'RE IN A COMBAT SHIP."

Yea ok. Nobody is going to fly a command ships because that's just asking to be primaried, and good luck not dying in this day and age of 2000 man blobs where whatever gets looked at gets alphaed.
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#333 - 2013-08-02 03:35:07 UTC
Most of the changes are OK - so far.

What I think is odd is that CCP Fozzie is pandering to the people who pay for one account instead of the people who pay for multiple accounts.

Fozzie will cause more accounts unsubbung than OGB's ever have.

(I actually dont believe anyone unsubs because someone else has boosters - but Ill pretend it happens just for the welfare recipient whingers who can't afford extra accounts and want to 1v1 in an mmo)

Big smile
Woei1988
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#334 - 2013-08-02 03:46:01 UTC
Well, this combined with the insane neuting range of the geddon and the tracking/range of gardes in domis, that seems to be in every single gang now.. Nano gangs have become obsolete.. Well done.

I wonder what ccp has against small groups of people trying to fight the large fleets..

Nyan... 

NaK'Lin
Seamen Force
#335 - 2013-08-02 03:56:14 UTC  |  Edited by: NaK'Lin
The more I think about it, they should just remove links altogether.
Then we can get our now wasted SP back and stick those SP into combat skills.
That way we'll all be "equal" and no more whining about "i can't 1v1".

BTW, there is no "1v1". eve is not about "total balance" or "fair fights". There is no "arena" or matchmaking system that will put you against an "equal" opponent. its all about being smarter and crushing the other guy. Boosters was a part of it.
If you want "Fair" and "equal" 1v1, go duel somebody and make sure you shipscan him first and ask for a screenshot of his implants, or you might whine yet some more. This whole "unfair" thing is tiresome. sandbox and fair doesn't go so well. Guess what make EvE so great and different from other MMOs (hint: it wasn't the "fair" part).

Also, paying multiple accounts is easy as hell if you make some isk. no need for real money.
I like people saying they "refuse to get a second account to have an ogb" .. see, that your choice. now stop crying about those who do the effort / sacrifice. I'm sure you whine about people IRL driving a better car as well, ignoring they maybe work twice as hard as you do.
Shade Millith
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#336 - 2013-08-02 04:05:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Shade Millith
Gypsio III wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Gypsio III wrote:
They're still massively overpowered.


Wont be the day they are forced to stay in grid....


People pay 120 mill to increase your point range by 25% (RF over T2) on a single ship. A link is over 50% more powerful and affects vastly more people, and yet costs a pittance. It's crazy..


A 35% tackling range link costs -

46 Days to get into a Loki and have level 5 Defensive Systems
48 Days to get Skirmish Warfare Link T2
20 Days to get a Skirmish Mindlink.
42 Days to get Warfare Link Specialist Level V and Command Processors

Costs ~300 million for the Loki.
Costs ~100 million for the Mindlink.

5+ months of training and 400+ million for a 35% increase is not a pittance.
Ja'ho sun
Series of The Ridiculous
#337 - 2013-08-02 04:21:16 UTC
small gangs in an unending war against the blob, has taken a great loss today. the great weapon, t3 boost, was hit by a bus. the driver? a great ally to the blob, CCP Frozzie. however I will take ur challenge, Frozzie, and spit in ur face. I will continue my fight against the blob. closer to the edge I will fly. you may have killed the kiting style for many, but not for me. brawling blobs may get stronger, but they will die. I will kill them. I will adapt.

I will not let you kill solo and small gang warfare. I will keep it alive. you can not stop me from killing ur blob, I won't let you. I will win. so **** you and ur nerf.
Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#338 - 2013-08-02 04:40:57 UTC
Bocephus Morgen wrote:
I'm cool with the changes, but would like to point out that this is a buff to stealth bombers. Higher sigs and lower tanks will make it even easier to kill fleets now.

The shield BS fleet was already endangered, it will go extinct with these changes.

funny i never seen bs fleets since 2011

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro

Akturous
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#339 - 2013-08-02 04:43:39 UTC
NaK'Lin wrote:
Thank you so much for this nerf. It was incredibly unnecessary and we people in lowsec will love you forever.

Here's the thing, though; Boosts allow us to fight larger gangs or blobs coming along


I literally spat out some tea laughing at this phallus wash coming from a group of risk averse scared little docked up termigants like the United.

Vote Item Heck One for CSM8

Akturous
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#340 - 2013-08-02 05:07:03 UTC
Angsty Teenager wrote:
blah blah, /unsub cmd ships are now USELESS!!!.


What a f.u.c.k.i.n.g. child.

Vote Item Heck One for CSM8