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[Odyssey 1.1] Warfare Links, Mindlinks, Gang bonuses

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maCH'EttE
Perkone
Caldari State
#301 - 2013-08-01 23:23:37 UTC
This is one of the conspiracies forwarded by CCP to kill small gang pvp.
Thank you CCP.
Blob warfare = more cash for CCP
small gang = who da f gives a damn.
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#302 - 2013-08-01 23:26:03 UTC
Sigras wrote:
Eukaryotic wrote:
I am a new player who likes to solo pvp. I find myself getting killed in small engagements alot because someone is linked to hell by an offgrid booster. I have no chance against them and do not want to pay to win to be able to compete with this tactic. I refuse to buy another account. That is dumb. Smaller scale pvp has evolved into buying new accounts to win, what kind of game does that make this. It is demoralizing to new players who think they will have fun flying by themselves and fighting.

New players having low sp, low isk, and little experience take a big risk when they pvp because often times the opponent is superior in these categories but instead of being encouraged to continue this brave type of gameplay despite the odds against them, it is like they are being punished by off grid boosters to just forget about pvping because without links it isn't happening.

And the sad part, many do forget pvp and some Eve. But that's okay right CCP? More links = more subs right? Dishonor.

Please remove links.

you dont want links removed, you want links brought on grid. Removing links removes meaningful choices from the game, forcing them on grid adds meaningful choices to the game.

Additionally Links were designed for you 'Eukaryotic'. You were supposed to fleet up with an older toon and he is supposed to pass some of his SP (Experience) down to you through links and thereby help you survive. Removing links only guarantees that a noob will never win a fight Vs. a veteran. Of course like many things in EVE the intended use is rarely similar to the eventual use.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Sigras
Conglomo
#303 - 2013-08-01 23:27:03 UTC
maCH'EttE wrote:
This is one of the conspiracies forwarded by CCP to kill small gang pvp.
Thank you CCP.
Blob warfare = more cash for CCP
small gang = who da f gives a damn.

so by nerfing something that large fleets use, they have buffed large fleets?

please tell me more about how you would balance ships . . .
Aramis Defranzac
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#304 - 2013-08-01 23:32:15 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Lexar Mundi wrote:
Mining links should not be given special treatment...

Give them an ORE battlecruiser size ship to run links on or something but to let them run links inside shield is pretty lame.


We do intend to move mining links out of forcefields someday, but we'll want to rebalance the Orca and Rorqual first to make putting them on grid more viable first.


I sense raging carebears :)
Heribeck Weathers
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#305 - 2013-08-01 23:33:55 UTC
I dont know why everyone is crying about links, he just nerfed the biggest link ofender which was skirmish links, now you wont be pointed by a condor at like 36km. Other than that unless soloing I think links are great
Fewell
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#306 - 2013-08-01 23:46:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Fewell
To be fair, changing links can't kill solo pvp, because being solo means being alone. As in one, not two.

edit- I'd like the numbers to be even lower but it's probably something you want to look at in action first before adjusting it (downward).
Rumless MK2
Ascendance
Goonswarm Federation
#307 - 2013-08-01 23:48:42 UTC
TinkerHell wrote:
Dear CCP,

I cant say i like these changes as i believe this always will benefit the larger gangs. The problem with links is the fact they exist.

Please reconsider.

I suggest just deleting links from game completely and reimbursing the SP. That way no one needs whine the other fleet has links, the smaller fleet wont get raped by the gang fielding a mass of logi to protect their command ship.

Everyone is happy.

Thanks.


I support this post.
Roggle
Tactically Euthanized
#308 - 2013-08-01 23:54:50 UTC
**** links
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
Shadow Cartel
#309 - 2013-08-02 00:01:57 UTC
The nerf to defensive and interdiction links seems a little too strong. I get that most of the popular ones are being toned down but a 9% and 14.2% reduction is excessive.

5% and 10% reductions from current would still be strong but not as crippling to high end small gang warfare (20 man w triage type stuff). It's some of the funnest gameplay available in EVE, don't kneecap it!

Alek the Kidnapper, Hero of the CSM
Apollo Eros
Percussive Diplomacy
Sedition.
#310 - 2013-08-02 00:06:20 UTC
Interesting changes. Cannot wait to see them implements.

I saw a post earlier about a BC mining hull.

Honestly I would love to see a T2 Venture that allows fitting of a single link. Battle SKIRMISH VENTURE GO!

[Triple OG LVL 5 Space Wizard]
Baron vonDoom
Scorn.
#311 - 2013-08-02 00:17:42 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step." - Laozi




Good opening - it's a first step, nothing more - yeah - an improvement but not nearly enough.

The number of ships a single booster can boost should be limited to avoid blob-power creep. Easiest way would be to purely make them applicable on squad commanders.

A gang of ten only needs one booster, a blob of 100 ships needs 10. That's only fair.

OGB needs to be put down like a rabid dog - the sooner the better - I don't care how you do it - make them work like bubbles, fix grid mechanics once and for all or whatever, but they need to DIAF ASAP.

Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#312 - 2013-08-02 00:21:26 UTC
This is also full of win

.
Ivory Kantenu
Apotheosis.
#313 - 2013-08-02 00:24:25 UTC
I seriously doubt you will see the removal of links all together.

Remember, CCP is still in the middle of rebalancing ships. If you remove Command Links, we now have 8 useless direct command ships, 4 useless subsystems, a handful of useless ship bonuses, and just a ton of headaches on CCPs part.

Remember, this is an initial posting of things to come, and are always subject to change.

They're more of an interesting start than a good one. Sit tight, guys, and don't get all twisted up over it. This change was coming eventually.

[i]Learn the basics of Wormhole Selling: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=101693&find=unread[/i]
Aeonisis Kenon
Don't bother me
#314 - 2013-08-02 00:29:16 UTC
Oops.
MrDiao
Fuxi Legion
Fraternity.
#315 - 2013-08-02 00:31:48 UTC  |  Edited by: MrDiao
As the "Command Processor I" consumes mid-slot, shield tanked fleet will often have less bonus, if you do eliminate the "off-grid boosters" and require the boosters to show up in field.

Hope you have considered this before shield fleets totally buried in rubbish bin.
Dez Affinity
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#316 - 2013-08-02 00:35:56 UTC
Eukaryotic wrote:
I am a new player who likes to solo pvp. I find myself getting killed in small engagements alot because someone is linked to hell by an offgrid booster. I have no chance against them and do not want to pay to win to be able to compete with this tactic. I refuse to buy another account. That is dumb. Smaller scale pvp has evolved into buying new accounts to win, what kind of game does that make this. It is demoralizing to new players who think they will have fun flying by themselves and fighting.

New players having low sp, low isk, and little experience take a big risk when they pvp because often times the opponent is superior in these categories but instead of being encouraged to continue this brave type of gameplay despite the odds against them, it is like they are being punished by off grid boosters to just forget about pvping because without links it isn't happening.

And the sad part, many do forget pvp and some Eve. But that's okay right CCP? More links = more subs right? Dishonor.

Please remove links.


Solo PVP hasn't really been a thing since like, 2007.

It used to be you could roam around and find 2,3,4 man gangs and that is manageable. But then more players joined EVE, corps got bigger, players got more experienced, people got in bigger ships and players got more risk averse.

So what's the solo player to do when gangs that were 2-4 become 5-7, well he can stop soloing, he can join a corp will do counter gangs if they time it right, or he can not in engage. Or he can purchase a second character, put him in a blackbird/falcon/link ship. More challenging for him but the rewards are greater and he can engage small and bigger gangs.

The people that want to win at any costs do what they always do, find the easiest way to do that without stopping you engaging. This is links. They make their ship better than yours for 700m isk and 20m SP. The issue for some time was that that 700m was never at risk, that's less of the case now.

People get even more risk averse and stop flying battlecruisers and battleships as much, they start flying frigates and assault frigates (even demanding their buff so they can fly them even more) Then you have all these frigate pvpers with link alts because that's the easiest most risk averse pvp there is and that's what most people in low-sec are flying. Also the links having such a large impact on frigates because of the fine line between them.

Then again this guy spent 30m fitting his frig another 700m fitting his booster and 40m sp and superior tactics, maybe he should beat your 15m frig 5m sp with only 1 character.

Simple EVE Math is 2 vs 1, the guy with 2 characters usually wins, whether it's on grid or not.

And if there were no links, you think they'd unsub their boosters? No way, they put them in a Navitas. Suddenly that incursus you were talking about that tanks 200dps with links is now tanking 300 with a remote rep alt, for 30m isk and almost no risk.

You are tackled by the incursus his rep alt comes in after, it never shows on any killmails, you can't get near it to kill it and even if you do you're probably not going to kill his frig as well.

Lesson 2 Characters with more ISK, more training time > 1 character less isk less training time.
The ship types don't even matter.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#317 - 2013-08-02 00:57:50 UTC
Honestly I don't think it goes far enough, but I'll take a little when I can get it.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Tetsuo Tsukaya
Perkone
Caldari State
#318 - 2013-08-02 00:59:19 UTC
+1 for removing links entirely and reimbursing SP
Akturous
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#319 - 2013-08-02 01:06:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Akturous
Not sure if it's been answered, as I previously didn't notice it, but you aren't changing the warfare processor sub on T3's to an electronics sub? This is really important if you eventually want these things to come on grid, else they'll never be used when you need on grid links. This would also stop you using one t3 for everything (probing, scout, links) though I suppose that's the point of t3's, do everything at once to a reasonable level.

Perhaps make the warfare sub electronics and then give it a massive cpu boost, that way you can fit links and probes, but the probes won't be bonused, hey presto it's perfect for the idea of a t3. Doing this would also allow you to spread your links over a larger number of ships if you don't need the benefits of the other t3 electronics subsystems. This would be perfect, do it now!

Either way, Command processors NEED A REDUCTION IN CPU! Unless a t3 can now natively fit 3 links, you really need to reduce the cpu cost of those things. It's impossible to fit a decent tank and have 3 links when they cost 150 cpu each and you need 2 of them.

Vote Item Heck One for CSM8
Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#320 - 2013-08-02 01:11:46 UTC
coming from a person with more than 1 ogb, this only a half step. take the full step.

these reductions are good, but it really needs more reduction.

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro