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Can the miner ganking be stopped now without intervention from CCP?

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CCP Phantom
C C P
C C P Alliance
#81 - 2011-11-10 14:38:10 UTC
Off topic posts removed, please stay on topic and polite.

CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer
Stella Dust
Doomheim
#82 - 2011-11-10 15:18:35 UTC
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:
... Whoevers got the Mackinaw bpos in Goons is making a killing atm along while driving up ice prices as an ancillary benefit. Just like Helicity Boson who I am entirely certain owns a hulk bpo has made hulkaggedon a yearly staple to drive sales.


There is no BPO for a Mackinaw; they are T2

Macks and Hulks were released with RMR (2005) and the bpo lottery was changed to invention in Revelations (2006) one year later. This would have given enough time for people to get a hulk or mackinaw bpo by the old lottery system. Its possible but not guaranteed that anyone actually got one during that time period. But if you ask me that would provide the perfect cover to get rid of HUGE stockpiles of these ships through these events and make enormous amounts of isk in the process. And Helicity runs it yearly.

Just me pondering reasons for in game events.Twisted




Goons v's TEST, that would be an ingame event, Hulkageddon is nothing more than a turkey shoot.
Eternus8lux8lucis
Guardians of the Gate
RAZOR Alliance
#83 - 2011-11-10 15:29:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternus8lux8lucis
Stella Dust wrote:



Goons v's TEST, that would be an ingame event, Hulkageddon is nothing more than a turkey shoot.


Seems I just got hit by the "lose your post feature"

Tbh its good economics. Freighters, orcas, mining barges and industrial ships that do not venture out of high sec have such a low chance if any at all of dying. The profit margins of producing these ships drops as the market saturation increases until only new players skilling into the ships are the only new buyers making the bpos and production of these ships almost worthless. To spur market dynamics events such as Hulkaggedon and the Ice Interdiction not only increase demand but also boost prices on these ships. Allowing the bpo holders and producers to again make a profit off the ships other than just turning minerals into a ship and reselling minerals in that formula.

Imo there should be more events like Hulkaggedon for Frieghters and larger ship classes and Hulkaggedon should run twice a year.

Before you scream about the miners and poor sods who are innocently ganked just remember that as a producer and Industrialist for many years in Eve its necessary when there is no decay effect. Or else you reach a point where you dont need to produce.

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#84 - 2011-11-10 15:50:00 UTC
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:
[... ganked ... and Industrialist for many years in Eve its necessary when there is no decay effect. Or else you reach a point where you dont need to produce.


I don't know what you are smoking but for profit ganking goes on all the time in high sec. Miners get can flipped.

Besides that, there is null, low and worm hole space 3/4 parts of space where they are not safe. Why is there so little mining in those places?

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Stella Dust
Doomheim
#85 - 2011-11-10 15:53:17 UTC
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:
Stella Dust wrote:



Goons v's TEST, that would be an ingame event, Hulkageddon is nothing more than a turkey shoot.


Seems I just got hit by the "lose your post feature"

Tbh its good economics. Freighters, orcas, mining barges and industrial ships that do not venture out of high sec have such a low chance if any at all of dying. The profit margins of producing these ships drops as the market saturation increases until only new players skilling into the ships are the only new buyers making the bpos and production of these ships almost worthless. To spur market dynamics events such as Hulkaggedon and the Ice Interdiction not only increase demand but also boost prices on these ships. Allowing the bpo holders and producers to again make a profit off the ships other than just turning minerals into a ship and reselling minerals in that formula.

Imo there should be more events like Hulkaggedon for Frieghters and larger ship classes and Hulkaggedon should run twice a year.

Before you scream about the miners and poor sods who are innocently ganked just remember that as a producer and Industrialist for many years in Eve its necessary when there is no decay effect. Or else you reach a point where you dont need to produce.



All well and good, but I do wonder if it's the right targets. They have to mine a lot of ore to be able to buy a Hulk in the first place, would be much better to just have more wars. Problem is the larger corps don't seem to like wars (as such) anymore as it can weaken them, so they resort to hitting weaker targets.
AureoLion
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#86 - 2011-11-10 15:53:27 UTC
You've got mids.
Don't use them to tank, use them to web.
spiderweb your barges, and enjoy being able to be hard aligned at 10 m/s.
Eternus8lux8lucis
Guardians of the Gate
RAZOR Alliance
#87 - 2011-11-10 16:06:35 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:
[... ganked ... and Industrialist for many years in Eve its necessary when there is no decay effect. Or else you reach a point where you dont need to produce.


I don't know what you are smoking but for profit ganking goes on all the time in high sec. Miners get can flipped.

Besides that, there is null, low and worm hole space 3/4 parts of space where they are not safe. Why is there so little mining in those places?


Id suggest you go reread my post again as you have absolutely no clue what I just wrote or said.

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#88 - 2011-11-10 20:10:25 UTC
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:
...
Id suggest you go reread my post again as you have absolutely no clue what I just wrote or said.

Yeah. Yeah. Ship destruction drives the economy, the usual thing.

Wars and picking on the little guys, mercs, they take their toll of miners. Takes a few before people wake up.
Hulk only makes about 22M a day.
There is more than enough ships being destroyed to create enough demand for the ore that miners produce.

I really don't see what the problem is.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Zowie Powers
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2011-11-10 20:22:42 UTC
If miner ganks are a problem, then they should cry harder on the forums. NuCCP will protect them.

ATX: The best of the rest.
Eternus8lux8lucis
Guardians of the Gate
RAZOR Alliance
#90 - 2011-11-10 21:29:37 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:
...
Id suggest you go reread my post again as you have absolutely no clue what I just wrote or said.

Yeah. Yeah. Ship destruction drives the economy, the usual thing.

Wars and picking on the little guys, mercs, they take their toll of miners. Takes a few before people wake up.
Hulk only makes about 22M a day.
There is more than enough ships being destroyed to create enough demand for the ore that miners produce.

I really don't see what the problem is.

Actually Im specifically speaking of the destruction of industrial ships to rebuild the resale markets on these classes of ships and nothing else. As if there was no ganking of industrial ships at all in the eve world, especially in high sec, you would effectively NEVER have to buy another ship and keep that ship forever as theres no decay. This means that ALL the high sec industrial ship owners will NEVER buy another ship EVER again. This means lower prices and profit margins of those selling those ships over the long run. Hence any bpo or inventor is going to need to create artificial demand for their products... aka suiciding or large scale hulkaggedons to increase demand. Effectively creating a much needed demand for their supply using in game mechanics.

This is smart economics through warfare. If isk is all I care about then Ill make it even if it hurts you, them or the little guy. As long as my bottom line is improved then its all good. This is the way business really works anyway in RL as well. Its not the ore that they want to create a demand for its the ships of that ship class. And if you cannot see that then you are blind. And if you do this on a large enough level you create a huge demand vacuum that you can fill nicely. Welcome to Eve in the year 2011.

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.
Eternus8lux8lucis
Guardians of the Gate
RAZOR Alliance
#91 - 2011-11-10 21:40:35 UTC
Stella Dust wrote:



All well and good, but I do wonder if it's the right targets. They have to mine a lot of ore to be able to buy a Hulk in the first place, would be much better to just have more wars. Problem is the larger corps don't seem to like wars (as such) anymore as it can weaken them, so they resort to hitting weaker targets.



Miners that do not PvP or care about PvPing only create isk and wealth and do not spend it on anything of any consequence but more things to acquire more wealth. Its like being "farmer rich".... I didnt make anything last year on my crops because I spent it all on a new tractor and barns. So the reality is that the only way they arent just increasing your wallets forever with the same ships or modules is by the destruction of said ships and modules in some way. And seeing as the high sec denizens will never go to low or null to do so in any meaningful way or put their ships in harms way for any good reason by staying in high sec if someone wishes to create demand for those products they must create it artificially.

When you get metaminers running multiple accounts, something I did in high sec for many years, you simply build up a wallet and have absolutely no new expenses or losses to speak of. Once a ship is bought and fitted out its never lost to anything or for any reason. Its simply a means to make more isk. A tool that never breaks, wears out or needs to be replaced. So once you max out your skills and your ships, implants and modules for max yield there is no really good reason for you to ever lose that in high sec other than the suicide gank or being stupid and being war decced, something evaded by having all your alts in NPC corps, etc. So from first hand knowledge I am well aware that whether someone is a botter or not they are simply making isk in a virtually risk free method forever.

So if I wanted to as a large alliance create a wealth source thats untouchable I would simply create enough accounts and have everyone high sec mine. All in NPC corps. They wouldnt make the top isk per hour in game but would make steady isk with absolutely no risk. You add in bots and botting to the equation and suddenly you have high sec perforated with mining bots with absolutely no risk. Voila you have the current Eve setup.

Along comes the suicide ganker. No longer risk free for anyone.

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#92 - 2011-11-10 21:50:34 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Okay, just to cover the bases, let us run through the general tips for mining in dangerous areas.


  • Tank up - implants, CPU rigs, Damage Control, et cetera.
  • Carry drones - ECM if they haven't been nerfed yet might help.
  • Align to a safe point.
  • Book mark two points - drift between them along the length of the belt, with "Approach" then if someone arrives, your speed is up to instantly warp away to them.
  • D-scan - find a good guide that will help you set up your D-scan. You want to watch it for approaching ships and warp away.


I also suggest you might want to stop looking at your fellow miners as competition but now as compatriots.
Make an intelligence channel so that you know what system the gankers are active in, try to put out scouts, start marking them with negative standing so that they have to keep making more alts to get the same results.

Then come back and let us know how this goes, so that CCP have some concrete information to act upon.

Most miners have zero interest in saving their exhumers from being ganked by following your suggestions. They feel they are entitled to afk mine while doing other things.


And you feel entitled to prove them wrong.

Its all about perspective, neither of you are right.
tengen san
Triton-TC
#93 - 2011-11-10 22:22:49 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Well can link this around. Part of the problem might be that they don't come on forums and such.


If miners, as a class, were the kind of people who'd take that kind of advice, then there wouldn't be events like Hulkageddon or Ice Interdiction in the first place.


This/
The lack of organization.
Clobber the belt with a fleet of 50 retrievers, place them along the Ice filed, its 250km long. The expense of 1 hulk buys you around 30 fitted retrieves, modules = two ice harvesters and that’s it. Replace every single one the soonest its get ganked would surely air bag the whole Interdiction.

It’s the simple bio-strategy of the swarm, simply to organize and implement for a sustained time, but impossible to task, as miners have no organized loyal to their profession.

Advising them to a better fit it just as fruitless, I sell Hulks with a resistance package of 29k, but they will fly on yield anyway.
tengen san
Triton-TC
#94 - 2011-11-10 22:35:59 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
Harlot you might want to get on the pipe to some corpies that actually play the game. I've been watching (OK, AFK cloak with the sound turned up) Triton Industries pulling Gallente Ice for the last two hours.

I'm getting an itchy salvage finger here. Less blather, more gank.

Mr Epeen Cool

I guess you still haven't checked the price of oxygen isotopes. Just because we're allowing a mackinaw or two to mine ice doesn't mean it ever makes it out of the system. Sorry to disappoint you.



Right, but the current pricing of OI is just a hype generated trough the Ice interdiction and bears no economical relevance. Cutting off a mere 6,5% - 7.5% of the overall available resource can't create a shortage justifying a upswing of prices as seen today, not even a 10% -15% could do it.

Hype the market and the lemmings run after it. Question is will it sustain?!
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#95 - 2011-11-10 23:11:09 UTC
In answer to title: no

moving on

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes