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[Odyssey 1.1] Command Ships

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Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#101 - 2013-08-01 15:03:26 UTC
sten mattson wrote:
is the heavy drone tracking bonus of the eos applied to sentries as well?

No, just the microwarp velocity part.Roll

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Baren
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#102 - 2013-08-01 15:04:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Baren
CCP FOZZIE can you please get as active as you are in his Rebalance Threads ``cough`` cough`` HAC`s
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#103 - 2013-08-01 15:05:57 UTC
For the end goal of getting Command ships back on grid, there really needs to be more balance amongst the command ships. The Minmitar/Gallente would do fine in smaller gang combat, where their rep bonus might actually be able to hold up, or they can fit enough resists for a logi or two to keep them alive, but in the larger scale of combat... they're too paper thin. Rep bonuses are great if you never plan on being shot at by more than 3 people.


Can we get a buffer/resist bonus on 1 minmitar and gallente hull? Have it be a 5% base armor/shield, or have it be a sig radius bonus to go with the sig radius link, making them hard ships to hit so they don't NEED the huge buffers typically associated with Caldari and Amarr.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal
Boltorano
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#104 - 2013-08-01 15:07:39 UTC
Kenrailae wrote:
For the end goal of getting Command ships back on grid, there really needs to be more balance amongst the command ships. The Minmitar/Gallente would do fine in smaller gang combat, where their rep bonus might actually be able to hold up, or they can fit enough resists for a logi or two to keep them alive, but in the larger scale of combat... they're too paper thin. Rep bonuses are great if you never plan on being shot at by more than 3 people.


I'm no expert, but isn't that kind of the point?
Baren
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#105 - 2013-08-01 15:07:56 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Baren wrote:
CCP FOZZIE, I just have a question on wording

Nighthawk:
5% bonus to Heavy Assault Missile and Heavy Missile explosion radius (was explosion velocity)


Should it not say,

Nighthawk:
5% bonus to reduction of Heavy Assault Missile and Heavy Missile explosion radius (was explosion velocity)


Any time we say bonus we generally mean that the stat goes in whatever direction is better. So yes it's a reduction.


awesome
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#106 - 2013-08-01 15:09:12 UTC
Baren wrote:
CCP FOZZIE can you please get as active as you are in his Rebalance Threads ``cough`` cough`` HAC`s


HACs are being shepherded by CCP Rise, although we discuss it all constantly and contribute a ton to each other's designs. I am completely in favor of the HAC changes he posted.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Deirdre Anethoel
Objectif Licorne
#107 - 2013-08-01 15:10:56 UTC
Boltorano wrote:
Kenrailae wrote:
For the end goal of getting Command ships back on grid, there really needs to be more balance amongst the command ships. The Minmitar/Gallente would do fine in smaller gang combat, where their rep bonus might actually be able to hold up, or they can fit enough resists for a logi or two to keep them alive, but in the larger scale of combat... they're too paper thin. Rep bonuses are great if you never plan on being shot at by more than 3 people.


I'm no expert, but isn't that kind of the point?


I like the fact that skirmish link boats (gallente/minmatar) will be hard to keep alive in large fleets. They are skirmish, that's the point. Sounds really good to me.
Eshnala
TURN LEFT
#108 - 2013-08-01 15:12:21 UTC
CS are still too slow for using them in a propper skirmish fleet tbh. Sleip or Claymore should be able to go 2k+ so it can keep up with linked tier3s/nano-bs.
Failgokker
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#109 - 2013-08-01 15:12:23 UTC
Granted, I'm not the biggest EFT wizard out there, so I'm not going to debate the individual buffs/nerfs.

CCP Fozzie you want boosting ships to be on grid with the fleets. I follow that quite fine. However, what role does the command ship expect to take in the fleet? I get that they are important fleet booster, but it's about the most boring thing to do in a fleet, while requiring a terrible long training time (Fleet Command V was hell).

The usage of using POS's or a t3 in a safespot was a way for those of us in fleet boosting ships to be able to fly 2 chars in large scale combat. With the new changes I'm not sure that'll be the case, and i'm finding it difficult to figure out if the new command ships in large battles will be anything other than flying bricks without anything active to do during combat?
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#110 - 2013-08-01 15:14:12 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:


Sleipnir:
Minmatar Battlecruiser skill bonuses:
10% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret damage (was 5% RoF)
7.5% bonus to shield boosting amount
Command Ships skill bonuses:
10%(+5) bonus to Medium Projectile Turret damage
10% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret falloff
Fixed Bonus:
Can fit up to three Warfare Link modules, 15% bonus to strength of Siege Warfare and Skirmish Warfare links
Slot layout: 7 H (-1), 5 M, 5 L, 5 turrets (-2), 2 Launchers (-1)
Fittings: 1300 PWG (-160), 425 CPU (-50)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 4500(+176) / 3600(-244) / 3500(+137)
Base shield resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 75(+12.5) / 60(+10) / 40 / 50
Base armor resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 90(+5) / 67.5(+8.13) / 25 / 10
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 2625 / 583s / 4.5
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 165 / 0.704 / 12800000(+300000) / 12.49s (+0.3)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25(-15) / 25(-15)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 70km (+25) / 220 / 7(+1)
Sensor strength: 20 Ladar (+4)
Signature radius: 240
Cargo capacity: 475



Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiieeet!

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#111 - 2013-08-01 15:15:08 UTC
Xequecal wrote:
Baren wrote:
Xequecal wrote:
Any chance of looking at the skill requirements to fly these things? Nine months of training just to undock one, over a year for Command Ships V and full effectiveness is frankly absurd, and the majority of those SP will not provide any benefit to you the vast majority of the time.



LOL go home. you prolly only have 10mil sp and are butt hurt you cant fly one.


They require more "wasted" SP that gives you no benefit at all 99% of the time than a dreadnought.

EDIT: I posted carrier instead of dread for some stupid reason.



The skills requires for a CS are link skills, which fit in its role, and Minmatar BC 5, and the racial (hull size) skill to 5 is standard on all T2 ships.

So they don't waste SP at all.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#112 - 2013-08-01 15:16:35 UTC
Oh my word yes.

Dodixie > Hek
Capn Jack
Shadow Vanguard.
#113 - 2013-08-01 15:17:59 UTC
So come Odyssey 1.1 Gallente are getting 2 big nerfs, Deimos loses a huge chunk of EHP and the Astarte loses ~8% dps (not home so can't do the math) do you feel that Gallente ships in general are currently too powerful for single and small gang warfare that you can justify these changes? (note: that these ships are already not the most used ships, and with these nerfs we might well see a decline in their use).
Hatsumi Kobayashi
Perkone
Caldari State
#114 - 2013-08-01 15:18:18 UTC
Between the reduced effectiveness and ganglinks and lack of an option to ease redundancy with fleet bonuses, I'm a little disappointed that not more was made to make sure they had added staying power to "bring them back on field" instead of constantly relying on offgrid/POS methods, especially combined with the nerfs to these. I guess I can understand it being difficult to balance if they could easily reach several hundred thousand EHP while making them have bite as well, but yeah.

Is there any hope of having that automated sorting of fleet bonuses that was mentioned a while back?

No sig.
glepp
New Caldari Bureau of Investigation
#115 - 2013-08-01 15:21:04 UTC  |  Edited by: glepp
Nice changes, but why keep the local rep bonuses? These are gang ships as defined by their role, and local reps are useless in any gang setting. Change it for a hitpoint bonus instead to differentiate from the bonuses on amarr/caldari. Amarr get both, caldari get resists, gallente get hp, and minnies get more speed+reps.

As it stands it's a logical contradiction that means armor fleets won't have skirmish links when you remove off-grid boosts.
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#116 - 2013-08-01 15:21:24 UTC
Sounds like a great plan overall. It always annoyed the living hell out of me that "Hey, this ship that's 200m ISK is designed to sit out in the middle of nowhere and do absolutely nothing! Welcome to EVE, that's so much fun!!"


Cheers and great job.

Where I am.
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#117 - 2013-08-01 15:22:31 UTC
Boltorano wrote:
Kenrailae wrote:
For the end goal of getting Command ships back on grid, there really needs to be more balance amongst the command ships. The Minmitar/Gallente would do fine in smaller gang combat, where their rep bonus might actually be able to hold up, or they can fit enough resists for a logi or two to keep them alive, but in the larger scale of combat... they're too paper thin. Rep bonuses are great if you never plan on being shot at by more than 3 people.


I'm no expert, but isn't that kind of the point?



Isn't 'what' kinda the point?

CCP did a great job of not saying who gets bonuses to what Link type this time around, but IIRC from last read(with the update from this time) The only two races that have a skirmish bonus are Gallente and Minmitar. So if you're saying that fleets larger than 10 ships shouldn't have Skirmish links, then yeah, I guess that is the point. If that's NOT the case, than CCP is just dropping active rep bonuses on all of the Gallente and minmitar things cause.... profit?

Yeah.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal
Rall Mekin
End-of-Line
#118 - 2013-08-01 15:23:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Rall Mekin
RE: CLAYMORE, missile velocity or flight time bonus for HAMs

To be honest, with HAM range being so limited, the Sleipnir has a huge advantage over the Claymore. What about changing one of the bonuses of the Claymore to be a flight time bonus or missile velocity bonus? I realize the power of an explosion velocity bonus, but, if its serious going to be considered as a HAM ship, HAM's need a little more range in my opinion.

HAM's, in general, are still neglected a lot in PVP except in wormhole space, mainly because basically all short range weapons with similar damage output have better range. HAM legions are popular in wormhole space, but that's because most fighting is done, well, on a wormhole. It will see a lot of use in hole, I believe, but I don't think your going to see HAM Claymore's actually used in PVP very often.

I think the Minmatar just have a good ratting, active, PVE heavy missile boat now.

However, I still LOVE what you are doing with the class, especially the Sleipnir. Vulture's will, admittedly, be used more, even with these changes.
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#119 - 2013-08-01 15:25:17 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
The skills requires for a CS are link skills, which fit in its role, and Minmatar BC 5, and the racial (hull size) skill to 5 is standard on all T2 ships.

So they don't waste SP at all.


Well, the point is that all those link and leadership skills do not help your character in any way when you're flying any other ship. Hell, the majority of those SP do not help you in any way even when you're flying THAT ship, since you can only reasonably fit 1 or 2 links on it anyway if you're not offgrid boosting.

BC V lets you fly other battlecruisers, so that one isn't "useless." The link skills are just like Advanced Spaceship Command and Jump Drive Operation, near-zero benefit skills that function entirely as timesinks to get into a dreadnought. I just think it's kind of dumb for command ships to have MORE deadweight SP than a capital ship. IMHO, they should each just require V in the two link skills they're bonused towards.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#120 - 2013-08-01 15:25:51 UTC
Whats with the big cargobay size differences from 300 - 700?
The damnation still has the 10% HP bonus really OP comes to mind....
Why does the Vulture get a 10% damage bonus but the eagle can't get it?
EOS has a Hybrid tracking bonus why?
Also was expecting more HP

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using