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[Odyssey 1.1] Command Ships

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Author
Yazzinra
Scorpion Ventures
#81 - 2013-08-01 14:53:07 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:



Eos:
Gallente Battlecruiser skill bonuses:
7.5% bonus to Armor Repairer effectiveness
10% bonus to drone damage and hitpoints (was 5% MHT damage)

Command Ships skill bonuses:
7.5% bonus to Heavy Drone tracking and microwarp velocity (was drone bay bonus)
7.5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret tracking (was link bonus)

Fixed Bonus:
Can fit up to three Warfare Link modules, 15% bonus to strength of Armored Warfare and Skirmish Warfare links
Slot layout: 6 H (-1), 4 M, 6 L, 4 turrets (-1)
Fittings: 1200 PWG (-225), 425 CPU (-25)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 3600(-244) / 4600(+276) / 5200(+395)
Base shield resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 0 / 60 / 85 / 50
Base armor resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 50 / 67.5 / 83.75 / 10
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 2812 / 625s / 4.5
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 145 / 0.704 / 13000000(-250000) / 12.69s (-0.24)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 (+50) / 250 (+100)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 65km (+10) / 200 / 8(+1)
Sensor strength: 22 Magnetometric (+4)
Signature radius: 300
Cargo capacity: 400



if this goes live with changing the hull to the Myrmidon, I think ill finally have a reason to get CS 5.

coupled with the other changes announced, im very excited.
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#82 - 2013-08-01 14:53:43 UTC
Baren wrote:
CCP FOZZIE, I just have a question on wording

Nighthawk:
5% bonus to Heavy Assault Missile and Heavy Missile explosion radius (was explosion velocity)


Should it not say,

Nighthawk:
5% bonus to reduction of Heavy Assault Missile and Heavy Missile explosion radius (was explosion velocity)


Any time we say bonus we generally mean that the stat goes in whatever direction is better. So yes it's a reduction.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Voith
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#83 - 2013-08-01 14:53:58 UTC
Deirdre Anethoel wrote:
So you're terribly afraid of powercreep on hacs, but you make every single command ship (except the vulture, because double optimal bonus is bad) into massive combat beasts? It's not like BCs were already taking all the space in term of brawling ships, now we have a whole class of ships with massive weapon bonus, T2 resists AND tanking bonus. With that, they should become the natural option for heavy brawling with costly ships, eclipsing both T3 and hacs. I think some of those changes could have been done on some of the hacs instead of command ships (the eagle and deimos could use some of the treatment given to their command ship counterparts).

But at least I'm happy to see we will have more option, since both command ship in the same race gives the same racial link bonus with different weapon options, you can choose the one the most adapted to your fleet composition. The fact that we still have half of them suited for large fleets (resist bonus) and half of them suitable for small gang (rep bonus) sounds cool. Could have been interesting to have this split in each race instead of having two fleet races and two small gang races. But it's flavorful that there is no "fleet" (aka with passive tank bonus) command ship with skirmish bonus.

I totally expect to see tons of the active tank ones in solo/small gang, and to see the fleet ones become an interesting doctrine to compete really strongly with the other expensive subcaps (hacs, T3s), since they have both massive tank and massive gun bonuses. I think you will have to monitor their effects on those ship's use cases, they may reduce hacs potential roles even more. Right now, at least half the hacs are designed for brawling and lack some of the tools for zipping around and controlling engagement range, so the few still used for that, like the zealot, may get overshadowed even more by more combat BCs. This could be fine if you give them back another role, but if they stay like they are, they may become useless.

I may be overreacting and overestimating the raw combat potential of the new command ships, but I'm afraid I'm not.

You're over reacting.

Notice that most ships lost turrets/launchers. The improved bonuses are to compensate for that.
Grarr Dexx
The Congregation
HIDDEN LEAF VILLAGE NINJA AssAssIn SQUAD eSports
#84 - 2013-08-01 14:54:21 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
It's not being changed.


Given up on trying to justify the Astarte nerf?
Danny John-Peter
The Congregation
HIDDEN LEAF VILLAGE NINJA AssAssIn SQUAD eSports
#85 - 2013-08-01 14:54:43 UTC
Dat Sleipnir.

I agree the Eos and the Claymore need resist bonuses, Racial continuity be damned in this case.

Other than that, better than your Vaga changes is all I can say.
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#86 - 2013-08-01 14:55:23 UTC
Xequecal wrote:
Any chance of looking at the skill requirements to fly these things? Nine months of training just to undock one, over a year for Command Ships V and full effectiveness is frankly absurd, and the majority of those SP will not provide any benefit to you the vast majority of the time.


We want there to be a variety of different ships for people to fly that have different skill levels. Command ships require a lot of training, this is part of their design. Until that training is complete there's a lot of other options including the T1 battlecruisers or Navy Battlecruisers, both of which are a lot of fun in combat and are very capable of providing helpful gang links to your fleetmates.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#87 - 2013-08-01 14:55:30 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Baren wrote:
CCP FOZZIE, I just have a question on wording

Nighthawk:
5% bonus to Heavy Assault Missile and Heavy Missile explosion radius (was explosion velocity)


Should it not say,

Nighthawk:
5% bonus to reduction of Heavy Assault Missile and Heavy Missile explosion radius (was explosion velocity)


Any time we say bonus we generally mean that the stat goes in whatever direction is better. So yes it's a reduction.


This isnt exactly a high priority, but there are some place where the same bonus is given as both +5% and -5% bonus. The first one that comes to mind is the 5% missile rof implant vs the officer named version of the same implant.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#88 - 2013-08-01 14:56:34 UTC
Grarr Dexx wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Grarr Dexx wrote:
Such as?


Such as when you have logistics to take advantage of the resists, or are small gang active tanking (niche I know), or want to provide bonused gang links for either armor or skirmish in an armor gang (much less niche).


Resists? On an Astarte? I guess you've forgotten that Gallente T2 armor hulls get to double dip in that hilarious configuration of 50% EM and 10% Explosive.



That allows you to use your brain and fit an explosive hardener s and a EM ahrdener with NO stack nerf between them without need to worry with the other resists!

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Lexar Mundi
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#89 - 2013-08-01 14:56:51 UTC
Swiftstrike1 wrote:
Nice changes. I still don't like that the gang link skills share the charisma modifier with social skills though, as they are clearly combat skills as opposed to "proper" social skills.


well if you think about it your ship is communicating to the other ships to give them bonuses lol.

Commanding is a social thing to do.
Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#90 - 2013-08-01 14:58:35 UTC
With the Damnation retaining it's 10%/level armor bonus, don't you guys think it'll still be the king over the others for FCing an armor gang? Is this intentional to keep it in this position?

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Raimo
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#91 - 2013-08-01 14:59:09 UTC
Looks like a good overall direction
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#92 - 2013-08-01 14:59:51 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
Grarr Dexx wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
It's not being changed.


Given up on trying to justify the Astarte nerf?


Astarte is fine l2p Lol

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Hayman Wakefield
Trans-Stellar Salvage Shipping and Securities
#93 - 2013-08-01 15:00:53 UTC
Well done on completely trolling CCP Rise on the Eagle, that Vulture tweak is great and it has two launchers unlike the Abso
sten mattson
Red Sky Morning
Local Is Primary
#94 - 2013-08-01 15:01:05 UTC
is the heavy drone tracking bonus of the eos applied to sentries as well?

IMMA FIRING MA LAZAR!!!

Tobias Hareka
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#95 - 2013-08-01 15:01:32 UTC
Deirdre Anethoel wrote:
So you're terribly afraid of powercreep on hacs, but you make every single command ship (except the vulture, because double optimal bonus is bad) into massive combat beasts?


Sleipnir, Abso, Astarte were already beasts. Sleipnir and Astarte are actually losing a bit of their turret damage. Astarte still looks a bit scary.
Rain6637
Simulacra and Simulation
Goonswarm Federation
#96 - 2013-08-01 15:01:57 UTC
Aglais
Ice-Storm
#97 - 2013-08-01 15:02:21 UTC
Fozzie, can we PLEASE cut the kinetic damage bonus on the Nighthawk and turn it into a general damage bonus? I don't know if this is an attempt to differentiate it from the Damnation or an attempt to keep it from being remarkable in more than like two situations. I know, it's going to have the Drake model, but it's a T2 ship, and it's going to not be cheap. What good will it be if it's only really effective with the one damage type that gets shut down the most?
Grarr Dexx
The Congregation
HIDDEN LEAF VILLAGE NINJA AssAssIn SQUAD eSports
#98 - 2013-08-01 15:02:27 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Grarr Dexx wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
It's not being changed.


Given up on trying to justify the Astarte nerf?


Astarte is fine l2p Lol


50% EM 10% Explosive, active tank bonus, 6 lowslots and only two rig slots

Yeah, sure. I'm sure you can see how 'fine' the Astarte is by seeing how often its used right now.
Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
Goonswarm Federation
#99 - 2013-08-01 15:02:29 UTC
Phoenix Jones wrote:
Smoking Blunts wrote:
so damnation gets
20% armour res bonus and 50% armour amount.

the eos and astate both start with less base armour and get a rep bonus plus dps bonus... like wtf

surely one of them should get the res and armour amount bonus

same can be said for vulture and the claymore/Sleipnir

you want them on grid? so at least give us one from each race that can stay on grid a while before it explodes please


The damnations damage has universally been pathetic. The Eos and Astarte would mow it down to kibble.

Damnation will still be the fleet brick. I'd like to start seeing some Eos/Ast fits now.



the dam is the fleet brick for sure, would just be nice if there was another to join it.

OMG when can i get a pic here

Deirdre Anethoel
Objectif Licorne
#100 - 2013-08-01 15:02:29 UTC
Voith wrote:

You're over reacting.

Notice that most ships lost turrets/launchers. The improved bonuses are to compensate for that.


Edited, you're right.
They may become viable as fleet compositions (because huge tank + decent damage is still good), but it's likely they won't be overpowered at all. Could be interesting. More options is always good.