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Balancing Feedback: Capital Ships

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Largo Coronet
Perkone
Caldari State
#121 - 2011-11-10 16:28:19 UTC
CCP Tallest wrote:
Tropic9 wrote:
CCP Tallest wrote:

* There needs to be a shield HP implant set as a counterbalance to the Slave set.

Would this mean that there also will be an armor tank version of the crystal set? In order to preserve balance in the universe?

That is entirely possible. I like my universe balanced.
Strangely, I'd been pondering this for a while myself.

You know who needs to sell these new implant sets?

CONCORD

The biggest hassle with Concord LP is that they have such a limited set of items available and at HORRIBLE prices. These would improve things greatly.

I'll even give you names for the sets:

Justice - Shield HP
Protector - Armor HP

Whaddaya think, sirs?

This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.

Someday, this signature may save my life.
Crias Taylor
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#122 - 2011-11-10 16:28:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Crias Taylor
CCP Tallest wrote:
Tropic9 wrote:
CCP Tallest wrote:

* There needs to be a shield HP implant set as a counterbalance to the Slave set.

Would this mean that there also will be an armor tank version of the crystal set? In order to preserve balance in the universe?

That is entirely possible. I like my universe balanced.


Then remove the slave bonus to capitals then so an Aeon and Wyvern don't vastly overshadow the hel and NYX bonuses. 

The fact is the Aeon and Wyvern have bonus to the tank and these sets bring HUGE increases to their Ehp. Where as a Nyx can do nothing to make its bonus better and the tanks of all 3 with the implants make the hel ****. 

TL;DR You are going to make a ****** problem even more ****** if you let Crystal apply to shield tanks.  If you really want to balance out capital/supers remove the slaves.
Raivi
State War Academy
Caldari State
#123 - 2011-11-10 16:30:14 UTC
Adding those new implant sets would have to be carefully considered to make sure they don't break subcap balance.

You may want to consider just changing slaves so they no longer work on caps/supercaps. Would be another reasonable nerf to supercaps without creating overpowered rattlesnakes.
Gramacy
Lazy.
#124 - 2011-11-10 16:30:58 UTC
An alternative would be to disable Slave sets on capitals, that way you won't need to introduce extra implant sets. However I guess quite a lot of players would be upest about that...

I like the changes to supers but why does the Hel still have the RR bonus? It isn't really suited to that role, and it should have better offensive abilities as a compromise for its relatively weak local tank.

You could make the Angel shield resist mods equal in stats to Guristas then add deadspace invulerability mods to both factions. This should increase the supply signficantly (right now the only place to get good resist mods is in Guristas space).
Archetype 66
Perkone
Caldari State
#125 - 2011-11-10 16:41:25 UTC
Simple : shield recharge rate changed accordingly
Dibsi Dei
Salamyhkaisten kilta
#126 - 2011-11-10 16:49:50 UTC
Just remove slave effects from supercapitals.

The last thing we need is for supercapitals to have their EHP back.
Lightzy
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#127 - 2011-11-10 16:50:25 UTC
Dibsi Dei wrote:
Just remove slave effects from supercapitals.

The last thing we need is for supercapitals to have their EHP back.


Yes please.
Il Feytid
State War Academy
Caldari State
#128 - 2011-11-10 16:53:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Il Feytid
CCP Tallest wrote:
Hel:
* 7,5% bonus to armor and shield transfer amount per carrier level instead of 5%.


I would prefer it if you changed the bonus to something else entirely and removed the range bonus for remote repair on all super carriers.

CCP Tallest wrote:
* There needs to be a shield HP implant set as a counterbalance to the Slave set.


Passive Drakes will be even more stupidly OP and if you still decide to go with this, then I demand an armor repair implant set like the Crystal one.


The Economist wrote:
I still think SC's need a 500-1000m3 regular drone bay, and that titans should have a 125m3 one (or at least let it field 5 light drones) though.

Headerman wrote:
And in regards to SCs... Maybe if there was an 'Auxiliary' drone bay of 125 meters for storing 'utility' drones? Lights, sentries or RR drones?

Grath Telkin wrote:
Please carve whatever space you need out of my cavernous cargo bay to give me back at least 50 cubic meters of drone space on my Erebus, thanks in advance


LEARN TO BRING SUPPORT!!!
Il Feytid
State War Academy
Caldari State
#129 - 2011-11-10 16:53:59 UTC
damn double post
Jyn Uin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#130 - 2011-11-10 16:58:40 UTC
Good changes, however I believe supers need more of an ehp nerf.

Capitals recieving an ehp buff to make them more viable against supers would be nice too.
Or let dreads recieve RR in siege with t2 module that would be a good equalizer.
EmmerTemp
State War Academy
Caldari State
#131 - 2011-11-10 17:04:04 UTC
Very good to see that Titans get nerfed a little more,
and shield (super) capitals are getting some love!

Thank, thank, thank you!!!
Vincent Gaines
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#132 - 2011-11-10 17:04:36 UTC
Aragote wrote:
clap clap, motherships continue on the path of uselessnes go ccp go...

less of a supercap blob to destroy subcap fleets = working as intended.

Your alliance's modus operandi was limited to one trick, sounds like a personal problem.

Not a diplo. 

The above post was edited for spelling.
Vincent Gaines
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#133 - 2011-11-10 17:08:08 UTC
Jyn Uin wrote:
Good changes, however I believe supers need more of an ehp nerf.

Capitals recieving an ehp buff to make them more viable against supers would be nice too.
Or let dreads recieve RR in siege with t2 module that would be a good equalizer.



bump resists while in siege (not astronomically) just like I proposed with triage modules. They use stront... which reinforces POSs... would make sense that the stront makes a ship a little tougher.

Not a diplo. 

The above post was edited for spelling.
Il Feytid
State War Academy
Caldari State
#134 - 2011-11-10 17:14:17 UTC
Just add the same penalty a dread receives while in siege mode to the titans. That way the guns and launchers shoot like they are in siege the entire time.
Aragote
Fat Dragon Mining Co.
Darwinism.
#135 - 2011-11-10 17:24:42 UTC
Vincent Gaines wrote:
Aragote wrote:
clap clap, motherships continue on the path of uselessnes go ccp go...

less of a supercap blob to destroy subcap fleets = working as intended.

Your alliance's modus operandi was limited to one trick, sounds like a personal problem.


Yes the ad hominem argument, always leads to such a nice debate....

Please tell me with the current changes in mind why would any body fly a supercarrier in the form they will be after the patch? They are going to be massive slow bricks with dps comparable / worse then that of a dread. Dps that is removable with a single decent bombing run and they can not even use that dps to reinforce poses.

Changes in this form will make supercarriers like the motherships of the old. None existent and definitely not worth their price. But you will see the 150 man carrier/dread blobs with the titans put in the mix for good measure.

Dreads do not need any more buffs then those that are incoming. Even those might be a bit over the top.
Cornette
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#136 - 2011-11-10 17:38:00 UTC
Lightzy wrote:
Dibsi Dei wrote:
Just remove slave effects from supercapitals.

The last thing we need is for supercapitals to have their EHP back.


Yes please.


So much this.
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#137 - 2011-11-10 17:38:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Gypsio III
No removal of the built-in Warp Core Stabilisers on supercapitals? I'm surprised, why do these ships need a bonus normally seen on non-combat vessels such as haulers?

Also, the new shield capacity implants - just make them increase shield recharge time by the same amount, so no change in passive tanks. It really is that simple.
Vincent Gaines
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#138 - 2011-11-10 17:40:56 UTC
Aragote wrote:
Vincent Gaines wrote:
Aragote wrote:
clap clap, motherships continue on the path of uselessnes go ccp go...

less of a supercap blob to destroy subcap fleets = working as intended.

Your alliance's modus operandi was limited to one trick, sounds like a personal problem.


Yes the ad hominem argument, always leads to such a nice debate....

Please tell me with the current changes in mind why would any body fly a supercarrier in the form they will be after the patch? They are going to be massive slow bricks with dps comparable / worse then that of a dread. Dps that is removable with a single decent bombing run and they can not even use that dps to reinforce poses.

Changes in this form will make supercarriers like the motherships of the old. None existent and definitely not worth their price. But you will see the 150 man carrier/dread blobs with the titans put in the mix for good measure.

Dreads do not need any more buffs then those that are incoming. Even those might be a bit over the top.


I've been on both sides of this as a super pilot and now freed from being one.

With the changes, moms will be less effective on the front lines of the battlefield. But you can't look at them alone.

The dread buffs will make them more useful in combat- where you use them over a subcap/BC fleet that takes out a POS. In many retrospects, buffing POS guns on large towers might go a long way to helping with this. CCP has buffed the EHP on subcaps to where they can do a dread's job- take out fortifications.

Bring more dreads by buffing them and making them more viable, drop or reduce the negative effects of boosters, and you will also see carriers being used in a more offensive role as well (with the triage buff).

Your mom is still a cap killer. It's a damn good one at that, especially now it can still carry a healthy mix. It can still kill titans. And with the remote nerf to titans you will also live longer to kill more. With Titans and dreads unable to just log you will also be able to kill more with them.


Yes, you can no longer drop 5-20 moms on a subcap fleet and that sucks. But really they are overpowered and you know this. Of course the price is steep, and the drawbacks severe but you knew this coming in. you knew they were overpowered when Apocrypha was released, and you knew that eventually the prevailance of superblobs would become a game breaking issue.

Yes, I have a slight bias from being in MM. We could not match 200-300 supers on the field. You know.. you KNOW this was a problem. These super, super fleets could chew through POSs, iHubs, and stations in minutes.

Capital warfare should remain capital. It should involve a support fleet. And I'm sorry but some of these super alliances with hundreds of supers are going to hurt... just as much as they benefitted from them being overpowered.

Not a diplo. 

The above post was edited for spelling.
Crias Taylor
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#139 - 2011-11-10 17:44:58 UTC
Aragote wrote:
clap clap, motherships continue on the path of uselessnes go ccp go...


I think you mean


Aragote wrote:
clap clap, motherships blobs without proper support continue on the path of uselessnes go ccp go...
Aloe Cloveris
The Greater Goon
#140 - 2011-11-10 17:52:25 UTC
Aragote wrote:
Please tell me with the current changes in mind why would any body fly a supercarrier in the form they will be after the patch? They are going to be massive slow bricks with dps comparable / worse then that of a dread. Dps that is removable with a single decent bombing run and they can not even use that dps to reinforce poses.

Changes in this form will make supercarriers like the motherships of the old. None existent and definitely not worth their price. But you will see the 150 man carrier/dread blobs with the titans put in the mix for good measure.

Dreads do not need any more buffs then those that are incoming. Even those might be a bit over the top.


Considering scaps can't be even be webbed to into a seiged dread's 0.00000001 or whatever tracking that's a pretty big advantage over them (not to mention that you're not bolted to the floor for 5 minute intervals unable to receive RR support when you want to apply your damage). They can still quite effectively kill capitals and a bombing run every 2 minutes has always and will always be a way to remove drones/fighters/bomber dps from the field. Even if you had a second wave of fighter bombers in this hypothetical situation they would still fall victim to the same bombers two minutes later when their launchers reset. v0v

Admittedly, I'm quite enjoying this supercapital buyers remorse thing. Good stuff. Yay!