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AFK Cloaking Collection Thread

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Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#581 - 2013-07-22 10:27:37 UTC
Kodiii wrote:

Yet, 23 hour logged in cloaky -> 30 million isk, 2 weeks training, reward is almost infinite.


If he's earning money while afk You should probalby report him, botting is not allowed.

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
Beckett Firesnake
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#582 - 2013-07-22 10:40:52 UTC
It is funny to see the number of post on this subject and the deny that there is a problem.
With the massive use of bombers in the TEST vs Goon war due to the Black Ops prejection range increase, the Cloaky problem have taken a new scale.

I continue to think that something should be done about this. To me, each module should have his countermeasure.
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#583 - 2013-07-22 11:58:05 UTC
Beckett Firesnake wrote:
It is funny to see the number of post on this subject and the deny that there is a problem.
With the massive use of bombers in the TEST vs Goon war due to the Black Ops prejection range increase, the Cloaky problem have taken a new scale.

I continue to think that something should be done about this. To me, each module should have his countermeasure.


Huh, they're using massive numbers of bombers now.... o_O

How could Goonswarm ever defend itself against such a devious device.

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#584 - 2013-07-22 14:15:44 UTC
My apology if this sounds harsh, but honesty can sometimes seem unkind.

Kodiii wrote:
"Why are you even ratting with hostiles in your system?"

Obviously you don't know what thread you're in, because turns out when there's a possibly active red waiting with a cyno in seemingly every system in your area. Now to that, I know someone like you would say, well move systems! And this is the part where you totally ignore the fact that everyone in system could move their pve/mining assets to the next system over, taking a cumulative decent amount of time. Then the SB spends 2 minutes moving over there and it's the same problem.

Do you even listen to yourself?

It's not AFK if it followed you, get your fighting ships ready.
Tell them to wear protection, because the bomber may have brought CY(no) Jelly...

Kodiii wrote:
Do you not see the unbalanced action vs. reaction of the two sides in this? One character (requiring only a few weeks of training and can be a single character alt) can disrupt entire systems into moving and then simply disrupt them again with minimal effort and whilst doing this remain completely safe. This would be all well and good unless you look at all the other balancing in the game. When something is high reward (i.e. disrupting an entire system), it needs to be high risk.

If all you are worried about is a character requiring only a few weeks worth of training, I see no sympathy coming your way anytime soon.

Now, if they have a fleet of expensive ships piloted by a group of players all waiting on a cue to begin combat... that is different.
Fight fire with fire! Get a fleet of expensive ships piloted by a group of players all waiting on a cue to begin combat.

If you are seriously expecting this bomber to have that kind of backup, and yet not seeing a need on your own part to match his commitment, where do you get the nerve to complain about it with any expectation of sympathy?

Oh no, I am playing a PvP MMO, and several players showed up to fight me, or might show up to fight me. This must be unbalanced, please fix it.

P.S.: I have no intention of moving to an area that supports PvE play with less support, I want to be in the area established for team effort, while complaining about someone using that same team effort against me.
And give me a cookie too.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Erutpar Ambient
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#585 - 2013-07-22 18:07:59 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:

If all you are worried about is a character requiring only a few weeks worth of training, I see no sympathy coming your way anytime soon.

Now, if they have a fleet of expensive ships piloted by a group of players all waiting on a cue to begin combat... that is different.
Fight fire with fire! Get a fleet of expensive ships piloted by a group of players all waiting on a cue to begin combat.

If you are seriously expecting this bomber to have that kind of backup, and yet not seeing a need on your own part to match his commitment, where do you get the nerve to complain about it with any expectation of sympathy?


I really do wonder if you have ever been to null, honestly.

The few weeks training gives cyno power to a character to disguise the people he cynos in. Few weeks of training characters are in cloaky frigs are obviously cyno alts to people with long play time characters.

Countering their fleet with an expensive fleet of your own is impossible. They won't fight head to head. They will only drop on a target kill it and then jump back out before anyone would be able to engage them with a fleet of any size or cost.

There is no way to match their commitment unless you have a spy in their group giving you up to date information. Which I would doubt many if any renters would have.

I know you do understand what all the hubub is all about. And I know you are for changing certain things to help aleviate the strain on both sides. There's no reason to counter argue everyone against cloaking with ignortance level reasoning.

Unless of course its just to shamelessly bump your thread I guess.
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#586 - 2013-07-22 18:11:05 UTC
Erutpar Ambient wrote:


I know you do understand what all the hubub is all about. And I know you are for changing certain things to help aleviate the strain on both sides. There's no reason to counter argue everyone against cloaking with ignortance level reasoning.


Sorry sir, but you are going to have to demonstrate how his arguments are "ignorance level reasoning". Just saying they are won't make it so.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#587 - 2013-07-22 18:19:42 UTC
Erutpar Ambient wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:

If all you are worried about is a character requiring only a few weeks worth of training, I see no sympathy coming your way anytime soon.

Now, if they have a fleet of expensive ships piloted by a group of players all waiting on a cue to begin combat... that is different.
Fight fire with fire! Get a fleet of expensive ships piloted by a group of players all waiting on a cue to begin combat.

If you are seriously expecting this bomber to have that kind of backup, and yet not seeing a need on your own part to match his commitment, where do you get the nerve to complain about it with any expectation of sympathy?


I really do wonder if you have ever been to null, honestly.

The few weeks training gives cyno power to a character to disguise the people he cynos in. Few weeks of training characters are in cloaky frigs are obviously cyno alts to people with long play time characters.

Countering their fleet with an expensive fleet of your own is impossible. They won't fight head to head. They will only drop on a target kill it and then jump back out before anyone would be able to engage them with a fleet of any size or cost.

There is no way to match their commitment unless you have a spy in their group giving you up to date information. Which I would doubt many if any renters would have.

I know you do understand what all the hubub is all about. And I know you are for changing certain things to help aleviate the strain on both sides. There's no reason to counter argue everyone against cloaking with ignortance level reasoning.

Unless of course its just to shamelessly bump your thread I guess.

Are you being funny on purpose?

Of course the hunter cannot show their true strength in local, don't be ridiculous!
They are TRYING to bait out the PvE targets.

This means they can't use multiple ships. Too obvious and not going to happen.
They are even hesitant to use an alt that is too well known as a cyno agent, since this tips off targets what happens.

They want the PvE pilots to take a chance on them being harmless, and risk being active in the system.

This guy can see local too, he knows when someone is online. When he sees a target name in local, he knows to make patrols of probable activity areas.

Perversely, AFK Docking and AFK POS'ing is a sound tactic to numb this fellow to YOUR presence, as he may quit checking on you if he sees you are always online according to local.

It works both ways.

Logic and facts do not equate to ignorance. Ignoring them, however, quite specifically does .

And no, it's not even my thread, although I do understand and support it's intent.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#588 - 2013-07-22 20:33:58 UTC
Kodiii wrote:


Yet, 23 hour logged in cloaky -> 30 million isk, 2 weeks training, reward is almost infinite.


Please explicate for us, these nearly infinite rewards.

Roll

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#589 - 2013-07-22 20:36:06 UTC
Beckett Firesnake wrote:
It is funny to see the number of post on this subject and the deny that there is a problem.
With the massive use of bombers in the TEST vs Goon war due to the Black Ops prejection range increase, the Cloaky problem have taken a new scale.

I continue to think that something should be done about this. To me, each module should have his countermeasure.


Now you are whining about active players using cloaked ships?

Christ you people are simply pathetic and should uninstall the game.

Active players using a cloak: Bad.
In active players using a cloak: Bad.
Cloaks: Bad.

You guys should be perma-banned if you even install such a module on any ship.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#590 - 2013-07-22 20:38:51 UTC
Erutpar Ambient wrote:


Countering their fleet with an expensive fleet of your own is impossible. They won't fight head to head. They will only drop on a target kill it and then jump back out before anyone would be able to engage them with a fleet of any size or cost.



Yeah, counter hot-dropping never ever happens.

Roll

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#591 - 2013-07-22 20:56:36 UTC
Erutpar Ambient wrote:


Countering their fleet with an expensive fleet of your own is impossible. They won't fight head to head. They will only drop on a target kill it and then jump back out before anyone would be able to engage them with a fleet of any size or cost.


Wait, you mean if you fly in a fleet your chances of being hot dropped decreases proportionally? No way give this man a medal he figured it out!!

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Erutpar Ambient
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#592 - 2013-07-23 00:56:13 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Erutpar Ambient wrote:


Countering their fleet with an expensive fleet of your own is impossible. They won't fight head to head. They will only drop on a target kill it and then jump back out before anyone would be able to engage them with a fleet of any size or cost.



Yeah, counter hot-dropping never ever happens.

Roll

Counter blops dropping never does.
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#593 - 2013-07-23 03:21:00 UTC
Erutpar Ambient wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Erutpar Ambient wrote:


Countering their fleet with an expensive fleet of your own is impossible. They won't fight head to head. They will only drop on a target kill it and then jump back out before anyone would be able to engage them with a fleet of any size or cost.



Yeah, counter hot-dropping never ever happens.

Roll

Counter blops dropping never does.

Yes it does.
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#594 - 2013-07-23 07:05:33 UTC
Astroniomix wrote:
Erutpar Ambient wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Erutpar Ambient wrote:


Countering their fleet with an expensive fleet of your own is impossible. They won't fight head to head. They will only drop on a target kill it and then jump back out before anyone would be able to engage them with a fleet of any size or cost.



Yeah, counter hot-dropping never ever happens.

Roll

Counter blops dropping never does.

Yes it does.


**Ah-chum**

When blobbing blobs blob blobs, blobs blob blobbing blobs. Big smile

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
Beckett Firesnake
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#595 - 2013-07-23 07:30:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Beckett Firesnake
Teckos Pech wrote:
Beckett Firesnake wrote:
It is funny to see the number of post on this subject and the deny that there is a problem.
With the massive use of bombers in the TEST vs Goon war due to the Black Ops projection range increase, the Cloaky problem have taken a new scale.

I continue to think that something should be done about this. To me, each module should have his countermeasure.


Now you are whining about active players using cloaked ships?

Christ you people are simply pathetic and should uninstall the game.

Active players using a cloak: Bad.
In active players using a cloak: Bad.
Cloaks: Bad.

You guys should be perma-banned if you even install such a module on any ship.


You are right, the biggest problem is the AFK cloaky guys.

There are solutions for the big bomber fleets not a lot, not perfect. It isdifficult but something can be done.
It is not the same for an AFK guy that let his computer running 24/24 and that you cannot find at all.

But Teckos Pech, perharps you should think before flaming. I am not whining I am just telling a fact, there is no counter measure against cloak. And I think as I think ECM are ruining the game that something should be done. I use Claoks and ECM though, not so oftenly I should probably ;-)
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#596 - 2013-07-23 07:36:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Debora Tsung
Beckett Firesnake wrote:

You are right, the biggest problem is the AFK cloaky guys.

There are solutions for the big bomber fleets not a lot, not perfect. It isdifficult but something can be done.
It is not the same for an AFK guy that let his computer running 24/24 and that you cannot find at all.


Yeah, but that guy is afk.

You could always start a thread about ppl getting an afk flag to their portrait after 10 minutes of inactivity.

But as I said in a previous post, once that happens people will complain that they have no way of knowing if the guy is just faking inactivity (the really patient kind of person, or those with a laptop to distract themselves from the all encompasing boredom of sitting somewhere and doing nothing) or if the guy really just is afk.

And that's were the real problem begins to surface. People let fear guide their actions, and that will never change, they will find ever new reasons to not undock and complain about one "totally unbalanced" feature or completely unfair style of play that should be removed.

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
Beckett Firesnake
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#597 - 2013-07-23 07:44:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Beckett Firesnake
Debora Tsung wrote:
Beckett Firesnake wrote:

You are right, the biggest problem is the AFK cloaky guys.

There are solutions for the big bomber fleets not a lot, not perfect. It isdifficult but something can be done.
It is not the same for an AFK guy that let his computer running 24/24 and that you cannot find at all.


Yeah, but that guy is afk.

You could always start a thread about ppl getting an afk flag to their portrait after 10 minutes of inactivity.

But as I said in a previous post, once that happens people will complain that they have no way of knowing if the guy is just faking inactivity (the really patient kind of person, or those with a laptop to distract themselves from the all encompasing boredom of sitting somewhere and doing nothing) or if the guy really just is afk.

And that's were the real problem begins to surface. People let fear guide their actions, and that will never change, they will find ever new reasons to not undock and complain about one "totally unbalanced" feature or completely unfair style of play that should be removed.


No I don't fear the cloaky ships, even if somteimes I should.
http://babylonknights.com/kb/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=47155

I love Baiting them, but if they are not here it is just a waste of time.
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#598 - 2013-07-23 07:52:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Debora Tsung
Beckett Firesnake wrote:

No I don't fear the cloaky ships, even if somteimes I should.
http://babylonknights.com/kb/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=47155

I love Baiting them, but if they are not here it is just a waste of time.


Speak for Yourself...

But then, why do You consider afk cloaking to be a problem while at the same time afk docking is supposed to be ok?

EDIT: I just reread Your post.

So, You just don't want to work for Your kills anymore? That's what You're trying to tell me?

I agree with that. I want bombs with 14AU range 50km Explosion radius, 50k damage and launchable at any site or ship scanned down by my probes.

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
Beckett Firesnake
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#599 - 2013-07-23 08:05:47 UTC
Debora Tsung wrote:
Beckett Firesnake wrote:

No I don't fear the cloaky ships, even if somteimes I should.
http://babylonknights.com/kb/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=47155

I love Baiting them, but if they are not here it is just a waste of time.


Speak for Yourself...

But then, why do You consider afk cloaking to be a problem while at the same time afk docking is supposed to ok?

EDIT: I just reread Your post.

So, You just don't want to work for Your kills anymore? That's what You're trying to tell me?

I agree with that. I want bombs with 14AU range 50km Explosion radius, 50k damage and launchable at any site or ship scanned down by my probes.


No I am ok to try to bait a cloaky. He choose to engage or not, I wait and I see. But if he is AFK , it is just a waste of time to wait.
If you cannot understand the difference I can't help you. I don't see the link with a bomb with 14AU range. this type of answer is simply clueless.

You always have the same argument: "You guys are carebears, don't fear the cloaky ship and stop whining." .
Try to open your mind of a different point of view.
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#600 - 2013-07-23 08:10:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Debora Tsung
Beckett Firesnake wrote:
You always have the same argument: "You guys are carebears, don't fear the cloaky ship and stop whining." .
Try to open your mind of a different point of view.


Nope, my answer is always this:

He's AFK, he can't harm you or interact with you. If he does so while afk, report him; botting is bad.

If you complain about how You can't kill somebody that doesn't interact with you because he's afk and either docked up or cloaked in the midle of nowhere... though luck, grow some balls, grab a beer, try to kill someone else. You can't force anybody to play as You want, it's not supposed to work that way.

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.