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Matching Fleet PvP

Author
Forums Bot
Doomheim
#1 - 2013-07-22 02:48:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Forums Bot
People often complain about hard to find good PvP fights in Eve because there is no mechanism to ensure fair fights. CCP should create such a mechanism to make PvP activities easily available and fun. It is quite simple to do so. For example a PvP flag can be added to the status of a fleet. The number of ships in the fleet can be 1, 5, or 10. The FC can turn on the flag and start fleet roaming. If two such fleets with same ship count get close enough, they are then warped to a location and fighting starts. At this point, no other ships are allowed to land on the same grid to ensure fair fights. I am sure if CCP wants to implement such a mechanism they'll come up with a far better design.
Irrulam
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#2 - 2013-07-22 02:55:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Irrulam
Short answer: No

Medium answer: No way in hell

Long answer:

One of the core principles of the game is the absence of hard coded exclusion. With a few minor exceptions (capitals in hisec, alliance tournament practice server, ship class gates in anoms/plexes), you can access any part of the game at any time, albeit with consequences.

This sort of arena PvP will never be hardcoded for TQ, as the ability to interfere with someone else's business (in space) is one of the most important aspects of EVE as an MMO.

If you want to set up 1 on 1s, 5 on 5s or X vs X, go ahead. If you don't want interference, find an empty system on Singularity. Asking for it on TQ is a fool's errand.

Forums Bot wrote:
I am sure if CCP wants to implement such a mechanism they'll come up with a far better design.


I can't speak for CCP, but given 10 years of their stance on this issue, I would be my house on them not wanting to implement such a mechanism. Then again, I never expected them to implement dueling either.
ACE McFACE
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Local Is Primary
#3 - 2013-07-22 03:09:19 UTC
Brace for impact...

Now, more than ever, we need a dislike button.

Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2013-07-22 05:44:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Cannibal Kane
Forum alt... check.

I gather the main of the OP got reamed by a larger fleet. Which is why he is posting this drivel.

On a side note I was griefed yesterday in local by a 7 Man fleet of Battleships, BC's and T2 frigs. So I undocked and killed 5 them and 2 ran.

You want to take that away from me? Go away.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk

masternerdguy
Doomheim
#5 - 2013-07-22 05:47:14 UTC
Forums Bot wrote:
I'm too antisocial to make friends


Fixed.

Friendship is magic.

Things are only impossible until they are not.

Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#6 - 2013-07-22 06:44:40 UTC
you are basically asking for arena warfare. There is no such thing on TQ but players who wanted that created it on the test server.

http://syndicatecl.com

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#7 - 2013-07-22 07:02:55 UTC
There is no such thing as fair in eve (love, war etc...). You can counter large fleets of casuals with a well prepared and freaking expensive small fleet of Nerds...fair enough?

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP

Forums Bot
Doomheim
#8 - 2013-07-22 10:20:11 UTC
To summarize your responses:

1. This mechanism is like arena in other games.

2. It'll disrupt your current activities.

3. Making such a suggestion shows that I am at least antisocial but most likely worse.

Here is my answer:

1. Most of MMOs have incorporated some kink of arena mechanism in their designs for a reason. I don't believe designers do so to make their games worse. To the contrary, I think it's a good idea. The on-going alliance tourny is in this format. Why not make it available to all players? One of the problems of arena design is that the fights don't start naturally. That's why I suggest roaming to find such fights.

2. It won't disrupt your current activities. When you are in such a roaming fleets, you can still do whatever you are normally doing. The only difference is that occasionally you will encounter fleets of your equal and fight them without interference. If you are so leet, you can still solo kill such a fleet when you catch it.

3. I don't know why you are so cynical. The only thing I can tell you is as in the 20 vs 5 sceniario, I neither want to be in the fleet of 20 nor 5. Maybe I can find fun with a fleet of 5 to beat 20, but I don't think it'll happen often. I most definitely will not have fun in a fleet of 20 to beat 5.

Ultimately the decision is CCP's to make. Eve is not a popular game. 500 subs is really not that much if you consider every player who is seriously play the game has multiple accounts (I am a new player and I have 3 accounts). That's why they are trying to make the game more accessible and fun for new players. This idea could be a step towards that goal.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#9 - 2013-07-22 10:32:49 UTC
No.

If you want something like that, go arrange it yourself. Locking space off is pretty much antithetical to EVE's design. It's also open to massive abuse.

Whether other games do it is irrelevant, because EVE is not those games, and they most certainly aren't EVE. That's probably why EVE is one of the more popular MMOs on the market, and why it has survived the death-spirals that all the wow-likes have succumbed to.
Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
#10 - 2013-07-22 10:35:39 UTC
Forums Bot wrote:
To summarize your responses:

1. This mechanism is like arena in other games.

2. It'll disrupt your current activities.

3. Making such a suggestion shows that I am at least antisocial but most likely worse.

Here is my answer:

1. Most of MMOs have incorporated some kink of arena mechanism in their designs for a reason.

... waaah!


Please don't use comparisons to other MMOs X
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#11 - 2013-07-22 10:46:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Kell
Forums Bot wrote:
To summarize your responses:

1. This mechanism is like arena in other games.

2. It'll disrupt your current activities.

3. Making such a suggestion shows that I am at least antisocial but most likely worse.

Here is my answer:

1. Most of MMOs have incorporated some kink of arena mechanism in their designs for a reason. I don't believe designers do so to make their games worse. To the contrary, I think it's a good idea. The on-going alliance tourny is in this format. Why not make it available to all players? One of the problems of arena design is that the fights don't start naturally. That's why I suggest roaming to find such fights.

2. It won't disrupt your current activities. When you are in such a roaming fleets, you can still do whatever you are normally doing. The only difference is that occasionally you will encounter fleets of your equal and fight them without interference. If you are so leet, you can still solo kill such a fleet when you catch it.

3. I don't know why you are so cynical. The only thing I can tell you is as in the 20 vs 5 sceniario, I neither want to be in the fleet of 20 nor 5. Maybe I can find fun with a fleet of 5 to beat 20, but I don't think it'll happen often. I most definitely will not have fun in a fleet of 20 to beat 5.

Ultimately the decision is CCP's to make. Eve is not a popular game. 500 subs is really not that much if you consider every player who is seriously play the game has multiple accounts (I am a new player and I have 3 accounts). That's why they are trying to make the game more accessible and fun for new players. This idea could be a step towards that goal.

1. EVE is like most MMOs and that's good. Arena PvP is restricted PvP, which there isn't and should never be in EVE. Escalating fights are what cause things like the battle of Asakai. We like the unique flavor of EVE and want it to stay unique.

2. It SHOULD disrupt you though. You should have to make an active choice to either engage in PvP or do your other stuff. It shouldn't be something you just queue jump into like WoW battlegrounds. Again, this is due to the unique style of EVE

3. I've seen fleets of 5 rip fleets of 20+ to pieces. The only way this would be balanced is to put in point limits like the alliance tournament, but then the whole system would become elitist anyway and you'd still have problems. A massive alliance could afford to squeeze the most amount of performance out of their ships using faction and officer mods to ensure they get a victory, and guys like you that just want to roam around wouldn;t be able to afford to keep up. Again using WoW as a reference, this is like when you first join battlegrounds, and everyone has all the PvP gear and beats you down in a hit or two. The difference here is that in EVE if you lose, you'd lose your ships and gain nothing, while in WoW, even if you lose, you win.

In short its too restrictive to add to a sandbox like eve, and would completely separate itself from the rest of the game. You could however look into red vs blue. They arrange arena fights with each other all the time, and is pretty much the player built example of what you are asking for. Alternatively, you are free to design your own corp based around arena PvP, with leaderboards, prizes and medals. As always in EVE its what YOU make that counts.

EDIT: Oh and CCP don't really care if you are 3 players or 1 player with 3 accounts, they get paid all the same. The loss of their existing player base if they were to implement game changing mechanics like this would be too costly for the few new players it may or may not bring in.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Naes Mlahrend
Devil's Horsemen
#12 - 2013-07-22 10:48:23 UTC
lol no
baltec1
Bat Country
The Initiative.
#13 - 2013-07-22 10:50:35 UTC
Forums Bot wrote:


1. Most of MMOs have incorporated some kink of arena mechanism in their designs for a reason


That reason is because they are WoW clones.

EVE is not that kind of MMO.
Paul Otichoda
Perkone
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-07-22 10:52:38 UTC
I would like some way of fair fights.

While I know this is impossible I'd still hope CCP changes novice FW plexs to not allow in tech 2 equibed ships. That would make these sites so much fairer for new players.
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2013-07-22 10:59:39 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:
I would like some way of fair fights.

While I know this is impossible I'd still hope CCP changes novice FW plexs to not allow in tech 2 equibed ships. That would make these sites so much fairer for new players.


You again with your tech 2 nonsense. Can't wait to hear you cry when you meet a falcon.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk

Naes Mlahrend
Devil's Horsemen
#16 - 2013-07-22 11:03:13 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:
I would like some way of fair fights.

While I know this is impossible I'd still hope CCP changes novice FW plexs to not allow in tech 2 equibed ships. That would make these sites so much fairer for new players.


It seriously doesn't take that long to train most T2 items...
Paul Otichoda
Perkone
Caldari State
#17 - 2013-07-22 11:10:36 UTC
Naes Mlahrend wrote:
Paul Otichoda wrote:
I would like some way of fair fights.

While I know this is impossible I'd still hope CCP changes novice FW plexs to not allow in tech 2 equibed ships. That would make these sites so much fairer for new players.


It seriously doesn't take that long to train most T2 items...


its going to take me 9 days to train light missiles to level 5 from level 4. Is that considered short for low sp players?
forestwho
Doomheim
#18 - 2013-07-22 11:13:56 UTC
The only way you get fair and even fites is when pvp'ng is free and 1 side decides too
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2013-07-22 11:18:25 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:
Naes Mlahrend wrote:
Paul Otichoda wrote:
I would like some way of fair fights.

While I know this is impossible I'd still hope CCP changes novice FW plexs to not allow in tech 2 equibed ships. That would make these sites so much fairer for new players.


It seriously doesn't take that long to train most T2 items...


its going to take me 9 days to train light missiles to level 5 from level 4. Is that considered short for low sp players?


If you think that is long wait till you get to those 30 day - 90 day skills to go from lvl4 to lvl5

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk

Forums Bot
Doomheim
#20 - 2013-07-22 11:33:40 UTC
Let me just point out some of logical holes in your counter arguments.

1. It will completely change the game for worse that will lead the game to a death spiral. Well as all other activities in Eve, you have the right to not participate in it. Why not let people who want to have fair fights to have it? I would be happy if 1/20 of the population would find fun in it. Well what if more people start to doing it? Well that makes this idea even better wouldn't you say so?

2. Rich alliances will pour resources to dominate new players. Well, since fleets have to roam to find fights, doing so will risk the fleet to be destroyed by a much large force and lose all the expensive stuff. Isn't it the wet dream comes true scenario for some people who are looking for shinny kill mails?

3. All of a sudden people start to accusing me of comparing Eve to other games. Well if you read my original post, I did not do so until others brought arena into the argument. So I made my counter argument.

4. CCP doesn't care how many accounts each player has because they make money either way. Well I think they do care. It is not sustainable to grow subscriptions by only forcing people to add more accounts. I think it is in their business interest to grow player base.

5. CCP is afraid of losing vets to gain new players. No they don't. If they somehow can find a way to start retaining new players, the number they gain will far exceed the the entire current player base which is probably around 200k give or take. Compared to on-the-death-role" WoW's 8 million, this is nothing at all. If EvE can attractive just 10% of people who are leaving WoW, it'll then be the popular game you are claiming it to be.
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