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AFK Cloaking Collection Thread

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Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#541 - 2013-07-12 17:47:07 UTC
Erutpar Ambient wrote:
You guys know what I say is true. Wh space works because of a lot of things. Mostly the reward vs risk ratio but also very much because of the lack of hotdrops. Which again does lower the risk quite a bit without affecting reward. Why do you think people are comforable ratting in dreads? Its because they're not worried about getting plopped on my a gang of supers.

In null sec the vast majority of the reward is in moon goo. Everything else is minimal. The only reason null sec would be considered safer than high sec at any time is because of player interaction. If we wernt able to set blue standing to our neighbors then everyone would be cloaky camping eachother 24/7. The only reason this isn't as rampant of a problem as it could be is because of the massive blueness of null sec.

If every system was camped 24/7 the cost of living in null would far out weigh the benefits.

I'm sure you guys will find a way to disagree with this of course.


I have no idea what you are trying to say here. The paragraph on WH space is reasonable. But then you veer off the rails after that. Sure a big part of the rewards in null are moon goo, but there are other resources, some that sit largely untapped. Null has lots of issues one of which is local as an intel tool. And it is a double edged sword...hence the reason it is balanced, although I'd argue not optimal.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#542 - 2013-07-12 20:05:20 UTC
Erutpar Ambient wrote:
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
Oh gee! God forbid a covert ops ship with a COVERT cloak actually try to stay COVERT!

The tears in this thread are incredible. Not all of EvE is "hurrrr durrr I can't shoot it so it must be OP". If you want to fight covops recon use your own intelligence and reconnaissance tactics.


There are no tears here. What i said is true.

You're counter argument is incredibly insightful. "if you can't beat it, join it" is what you said.

If the only way to beat a ship is to use the same ship, then something is wrong. And in this case you still can't beat it!

A Covert Ops Cloak is too perfect of Intel. Not only can you see who's in space, but you can see what they're flying and where they are then you can attack them if they're not a threat to you. All of this while being perfectly safe from harm.

That far outweighs Local does it not?


Oh gee! A ship designed and classified as a COVERT RECONNAISSANCE ship actually do recon! My world is turned upside down!

I thought it was obvious. To counter enemy intelligence, use your own recon and intelligence.
Erutpar Ambient
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#543 - 2013-07-12 22:26:56 UTC
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
Erutpar Ambient wrote:
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
Oh gee! God forbid a covert ops ship with a COVERT cloak actually try to stay COVERT!

The tears in this thread are incredible. Not all of EvE is "hurrrr durrr I can't shoot it so it must be OP". If you want to fight covops recon use your own intelligence and reconnaissance tactics.


There are no tears here. What i said is true.

You're counter argument is incredibly insightful. "if you can't beat it, join it" is what you said.

If the only way to beat a ship is to use the same ship, then something is wrong. And in this case you still can't beat it!

A Covert Ops Cloak is too perfect of Intel. Not only can you see who's in space, but you can see what they're flying and where they are then you can attack them if they're not a threat to you. All of this while being perfectly safe from harm.

That far outweighs Local does it not?


Oh gee! A ship designed and classified as a COVERT RECONNAISSANCE ship actually do recon! My world is turned upside down!

I thought it was obvious. To counter enemy intelligence, use your own recon and intelligence.

Yes the name is misleading. It should really be named "Covert Cyno Gank Ship". Or do people actually only use it for recon?
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#544 - 2013-07-12 22:35:54 UTC
Erutpar Ambient wrote:
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
Erutpar Ambient wrote:
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
Oh gee! God forbid a covert ops ship with a COVERT cloak actually try to stay COVERT!

The tears in this thread are incredible. Not all of EvE is "hurrrr durrr I can't shoot it so it must be OP". If you want to fight covops recon use your own intelligence and reconnaissance tactics.


There are no tears here. What i said is true.

You're counter argument is incredibly insightful. "if you can't beat it, join it" is what you said.

If the only way to beat a ship is to use the same ship, then something is wrong. And in this case you still can't beat it!

A Covert Ops Cloak is too perfect of Intel. Not only can you see who's in space, but you can see what they're flying and where they are then you can attack them if they're not a threat to you. All of this while being perfectly safe from harm.

That far outweighs Local does it not?


Oh gee! A ship designed and classified as a COVERT RECONNAISSANCE ship actually do recon! My world is turned upside down!

I thought it was obvious. To counter enemy intelligence, use your own recon and intelligence.

Yes the name is misleading. It should really be named "Covert Cyno Gank Ship". Or do people actually only use it for recon?


Oh FFS. Roll

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Erutpar Ambient
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#545 - 2013-07-13 05:44:19 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:

Oh FFS. Roll


Yeah yeah, i guess it's to recon for a hotdrop target. That makes everything better...

???
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#546 - 2013-07-13 06:10:19 UTC
Erutpar Ambient wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:

Oh FFS. Roll


Yeah yeah, i guess it's to recon for a hotdrop target. That makes everything better...

???


No, its your calling a covert ops a gank ship. It is just pathetic.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#547 - 2013-07-14 04:53:13 UTC
RRRUUUNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A cov ops just decloaked, it will gank the forums for sure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Mag's
Azn Empire
#548 - 2013-07-14 12:31:28 UTC
Erutpar Ambient wrote:
Nyancat Audeles wrote:


Oh gee! A ship designed and classified as a COVERT RECONNAISSANCE ship actually do recon! My world is turned upside down!

I thought it was obvious. To counter enemy intelligence, use your own recon and intelligence.

Yes the name is misleading. It should really be named "Covert Cyno Gank Ship". Or do people actually only use it for recon?
Going to extremes to prove a point, is a sure sign of a winning argument. Amiright?

Although what that point is, is yet to be determined.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#549 - 2013-07-14 15:57:19 UTC
Maybe he is calling it a gank ship because it is easy to gank.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#550 - 2013-07-15 14:58:36 UTC
I ran out of cloaking fuel!!!!

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#551 - 2013-07-15 21:07:13 UTC
Zounds, the cloaking timer ran down.....

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#552 - 2013-07-16 04:04:07 UTC
OMG, I've been found by anti-cloaking probes!

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#553 - 2013-07-16 13:48:50 UTC
The spring has wound down.

(Cranks the clockwork cloaking device up for another 20 minutes)

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Erutpar Ambient
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#554 - 2013-07-16 16:42:53 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Erutpar Ambient wrote:
Nyancat Audeles wrote:


Oh gee! A ship designed and classified as a COVERT RECONNAISSANCE ship actually do recon! My world is turned upside down!

I thought it was obvious. To counter enemy intelligence, use your own recon and intelligence.

Yes the name is misleading. It should really be named "Covert Cyno Gank Ship". Or do people actually only use it for recon?
Going to extremes to prove a point, is a sure sign of a winning argument. Amiright?

Although what that point is, is yet to be determined.


The point is this. Covert Ops is over powered by being able to warp while cloaked, cyno AND tackle and in the case of recon also Ewar!

Currently the only thing that is at all restricting covert ops from getting out of line is Local. If you change local to delayed or remove it then covert ops will get out of control.

http://kb.vergeofcollapse.com/?a=pilot_detail&plt_ext_id=1574370004&view=kills

This guy does nothing but fly around in a nemesis or arazu and drop his Nyx on ratting carriers. Even with local he is very successful as you can see. If local was removed or delayed or didn't show cloakers then his fail rate would probably disappear. There are others who do this too. Some use non-covert cloakers in cheap frigs that are only days old and in starter corps. The difference is that they'll plant them in a system and let them sit online in space cloaked for a few days until the inhabitants start to get comfortable. Then when they feel the time is right (and get a juicy target on dscan) they'll land on them cyno and the target is hotdropped before he even knows what happened. This would also be a much bigger deal if local was changed.

The problem now with cloaked campers is this. If they're in your system, no matter how big or small their ship, its potentially as much force as 100 supers. If you undock and return to business as usual you're suicidal, if you undock in pvp ships then you're just wasting your time.

Compared to WH space, the risks in Nullsec are much higher while the rewards are much lower. The only thing nullsec has is extra convenience.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#555 - 2013-07-16 16:55:11 UTC
Erutpar Ambient wrote:
The point is this. Covert Ops is over powered by being able to warp while cloaked, cyno AND tackle and in the case of recon also Ewar!

Currently the only thing that is at all restricting covert ops from getting out of line is Local. If you change local to delayed or remove it then covert ops will get out of control.

http://kb.vergeofcollapse.com/?a=pilot_detail&plt_ext_id=1574370004&view=kills

This guy does nothing but fly around in a nemesis or arazu and drop his Nyx on ratting carriers. Even with local he is very successful as you can see. If local was removed or delayed or didn't show cloakers then his fail rate would probably disappear. There are others who do this too. Some use non-covert cloakers in cheap frigs that are only days old and in starter corps. The difference is that they'll plant them in a system and let them sit online in space cloaked for a few days until the inhabitants start to get comfortable. Then when they feel the time is right (and get a juicy target on dscan) they'll land on them cyno and the target is hotdropped before he even knows what happened. This would also be a much bigger deal if local was changed.

The problem now with cloaked campers is this. If they're in your system, no matter how big or small their ship, its potentially as much force as 100 supers. If you undock and return to business as usual you're suicidal, if you undock in pvp ships then you're just wasting your time.

Compared to WH space, the risks in Nullsec are much higher while the rewards are much lower. The only thing nullsec has is extra convenience.

You really do take flying leap with some of the assumptions needed to fuel that point of view.

Ok, point one: Your hot dropper is either psychic, or needs some means to learn where his targets are.
Unless he has an intel channel informing on his targets for him, this means he needs eyeballs in space.

Point two: with any removal of free alerts of absolute pilot presence, it becomes balanced to allow hunting of cloaked vessels. This obstacle is specific to: it is not balanced to hunt cloaked vessels if you are aware of pilot presence instantly and effortlessly.

Point three: ratting carriers.... if you are going to use a cap ship this frivolously, you had better be right about your defenses.
Survival of the fittest, and trim the idiots out of existence. He's doing everyone a favor here.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Mag's
Azn Empire
#556 - 2013-07-16 17:09:00 UTC
Erutpar Ambient wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Erutpar Ambient wrote:
Nyancat Audeles wrote:


Oh gee! A ship designed and classified as a COVERT RECONNAISSANCE ship actually do recon! My world is turned upside down!

I thought it was obvious. To counter enemy intelligence, use your own recon and intelligence.

Yes the name is misleading. It should really be named "Covert Cyno Gank Ship". Or do people actually only use it for recon?
Going to extremes to prove a point, is a sure sign of a winning argument. Amiright?

Although what that point is, is yet to be determined.


The point is this. Covert Ops is over powered by being able to warp while cloaked, cyno AND tackle and in the case of recon also Ewar!

Currently the only thing that is at all restricting covert ops from getting out of line is Local. If you change local to delayed or remove it then covert ops will get out of control.

http://kb.vergeofcollapse.com/?a=pilot_detail&plt_ext_id=1574370004&view=kills

This guy does nothing but fly around in a nemesis or arazu and drop his Nyx on ratting carriers. Even with local he is very successful as you can see. If local was removed or delayed or didn't show cloakers then his fail rate would probably disappear. There are others who do this too. Some use non-covert cloakers in cheap frigs that are only days old and in starter corps. The difference is that they'll plant them in a system and let them sit online in space cloaked for a few days until the inhabitants start to get comfortable. Then when they feel the time is right (and get a juicy target on dscan) they'll land on them cyno and the target is hotdropped before he even knows what happened. This would also be a much bigger deal if local was changed.

The problem now with cloaked campers is this. If they're in your system, no matter how big or small their ship, its potentially as much force as 100 supers. If you undock and return to business as usual you're suicidal, if you undock in pvp ships then you're just wasting your time.

Compared to WH space, the risks in Nullsec are much higher while the rewards are much lower. The only thing nullsec has is extra convenience.
WTB covert ops that can cyno and tackle cloaked. Oh and a recon that can do the same.
Amidoingitright?

Cloaked and AFK, means not being there. You seem to be talking a lot about ACTIVE mechanics. Time to make up your mind which one you're moaning about.

Also, if you are stupid enough to rat in carriers with an enemy in local, then you accept the consequences. It's risky enough without them in local tbh.

So I take it you really didn't have a point then?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#557 - 2013-07-16 17:34:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Erutpar Ambient wrote:


The point is this. Covert Ops is over powered by being able to warp while cloaked, cyno AND tackle and in the case of recon also Ewar!

Currently the only thing that is at all restricting covert ops from getting out of line is Local. If you change local to delayed or remove it then covert ops will get out of control.

http://kb.vergeofcollapse.com/?a=pilot_detail&plt_ext_id=1574370004&view=kills

This guy does nothing but fly around in a nemesis or arazu and drop his Nyx on ratting carriers. Even with local he is very successful as you can see. If local was removed or delayed or didn't show cloakers then his fail rate would probably disappear. There are others who do this too. Some use non-covert cloakers in cheap frigs that are only days old and in starter corps. The difference is that they'll plant them in a system and let them sit online in space cloaked for a few days until the inhabitants start to get comfortable. Then when they feel the time is right (and get a juicy target on dscan) they'll land on them cyno and the target is hotdropped before he even knows what happened. This would also be a much bigger deal if local was changed.

The problem now with cloaked campers is this. If they're in your system, no matter how big or small their ship, its potentially as much force as 100 supers. If you undock and return to business as usual you're suicidal, if you undock in pvp ships then you're just wasting your time.

Compared to WH space, the risks in Nullsec are much higher while the rewards are much lower. The only thing nullsec has is extra convenience.


Where to begin,

1. We don't know his failure rate since missed kills are not shown on any killboard, only kills.
2. To paraphrase P.T. Barnum, in Eve there is an idiot born every minute.
3. Look at the effort to get these kills, spend hours if not days with an alt in system cloaked waiting for somebody to turn up stupid to 11.

And did you not see the part where it was advised when you have a hostile cloaker in system you don't rat in a bling boat (this includes a carrier) and instead rat in PvP ships in a group? Guess you didn't. Rat in a group of 4-5 in battle cruisers with more of a PvP fit (i.e. more omni-tanking) and when that arazu or nemesis decloaks you **** him. Even with e-war on the arazu they can only effectively damp 1 maybe 2 targets, the other 3 guys would easily chew him up and spit him out. Hell, he probably wont even engage.

If you are going to be stupid, and that includes the alliances for these players...every person in them...then they are getting what they deserve. The corps and alliances should be having a chat once this guys kills a carrier in their "area". How to deal with this situation. For example, switching over to cheaper ships will almost surely mean he moves on looking for actual idiots.

Roll God, can't believe I had to (re-)write all that. Again.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#558 - 2013-07-16 17:36:08 UTC
Quote:
The problem now with cloaked campers is this. If they're in your system, no matter how big or small their ship, its potentially as much force as 100 supers


I'm sorry, but that is literally a very ret@rded thing to write. Grow up.

Roll

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#559 - 2013-07-16 22:59:24 UTC
/o\ the anti-cloak pulse module was activated!

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#560 - 2013-07-17 00:11:50 UTC
Your ship has run out of Docking Fuel. Proceeding to eject from station.

The anti-docked probes are forcing you to undock!

Anti-docking pulse belonging to so and so has ejected you from station!

Your docking timer is up. Auto eject enabled.

Your ship has been docked for 29 minutes and 30 seconds. You will automatically be undocked in 30 seconds.

We need a new class of ship that is designed especially to hunt docked players.

There needs to be an anti-docking bomb.

There needs to be a POS module that prevents system wide docking.

Docking should cause modules to overheat, and when your modules are 100% damaged, you should automatically undock.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?